The Value of Shawne Williams

Orlock78 · Post #1 » by **Orlock78** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:16 pm

I realize that by creating this topic that he will arrested by the time I'm done typing this, BUT...

I am really curious what you guys think of Shawne Williams at this point. It seems like I have heard widely varied ideas of whether we should keep him or trade him, and what he's worth. Some people seem to include him in deals as a "throw in" while others seem to think eventually he'll be better than Danny. I just wanted to get a better idea of where everyone stands.

Personally I think that although he has had problems up until now he is too valuable to deal at this point in particular. I think he has too much promise for this upcoming season to "throw him in" any deal in which we don't get back considerable value. I'm willing to give him another chance and see what he can do. Especially if there is any chance he could exceed at the PF spot.

What do you guys think?

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #2 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:18 pm

I would not trade him unless we get a low post banger at PF.

Williams' had a better 2nd season per36 than Granger did. I do not think Williams is better or will ever be better, but I would like to keep him this year and see if he can play even better and get his trade value up, then I would like to move him. I think he can be a good player, but he won't ever get past Granger in the rotation.

IndieRuso420 · Post #3 » by **IndieRuso420** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:27 pm

Keep him for now.

If he isn't progressing as well as thought by mid-season, is in trouble, or just plain isn't playing (new Ike) move him.

I still think he could be a valuable young rotational player, and I hope he turns out to be.

notque · Post #4 » by **notque** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:31 pm

I think it's likely Granger will stay at his current level of production without significant growth, although may improve shooting percentages, his game won't develop significantly to allow him to move up another level, unless it's entirely based on shooting which isn't out of the relm of possibility.

I believe Williams when drafted was every bit as good as Granger when drafted. I see him developing into a difficult to defend 4 in a running team.

By no means do I want to get rid of Granger.

by no means do I think it's a sure thing Williams will be better than Granger.

I just believe that this issue is the same as if Granger had some issues going on. Would he be any less of a basketball player at this stage?

So why would we value Williams significantly less? He's developing. You can see the progress. Why isn't he as valuable as Granger? Why would there be any expectation that he wouldn't develop in a similar career path?

notque · Post #5 » by **notque** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:36 pm

Top Rated Wing players since 2002 by John Hollinger

Player Projected Yr. 3 PER Draft Year
Dwyane Wade 17.81 2003
Carmelo Anthony 17.38 2003
Luol Deng 16.71 2004
Rudy Gay 16.21 2006
Julian Wright 15.86 2007
Rashad McCants 15.41 2005
Andre Iguodala 15.16 2004
Danny Granger 14.55 2005
Shawne Williams 14.37 2006
Josh Howard 14.31 2003

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #6 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:49 pm

Granger can get better though, towards the end of the season he was driving the the hole a lot more. If he can work on finishing better and getting to the line more he will get a lot better. Not to mention his defense will improve.

I do kinda want to start Williams at the 4. I do not like him there, but I would at least like to test it out and see what he can do. He has played very well and it would be interesting to see how he improves in his 3rd season.

glasket · Post #7 » by **glasket** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 1:25 am

I don't really understand why we want Shawne traded.
He is young
Developing
Showed good growth last season
Has a fair bit of upside

Yes he made some bad decisions last season but unless there is a lot more going on behind the scenes I think that he learned and has moved on (a public apology definately showed his maturity).

Keep him, unless an offer we can;t refuse pops up.

Post #8 » by **APerna** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 1:52 am

I don't think many "want" him to be traded, but I think because of the reasons you listed glasket, someone will give us something of value for him.

We have a glutton of players at Shawne's primary, small forward, position would makes him expendable in the eyes of many.

Wizop · Post #9 » by **Wizop** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 2:57 am

I like his talent a lot. he's only 20 or 21 so he could easily mature into a 4. however, he's had two strikes and appears to be on double not so secret probation. I couldn't complain if they moved him even if he turns out to be an all star. best result would be for him to earn 15 to 20 minutes of regular PT mostly at 3 with a little at 4.

basketballwacko2 · Post #10 » by **basketballwacko2** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 3:23 am

I would consider trading Shawne in a deal to move Jamaal. Looking at teams that may be looking for a PG, the Kings, Clippers, Wolves maybe, the Knicks, maybe even Miami(unlikely), Denver(kmart). Any of these teams might find JT more appealing if he came with Shawne as incentive.

I like Shawnes talent and I think he can become a very good player, but he can't screw up again or he's history.

Orlock78 · Post #11 » by **Orlock78** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 3:52 am

I know it won't happen, but can you imagine having a running team with these guys on the floor at the same time:

Ford
Rush
Granger
Williams
Foster

Not only would they run like Deer, that is a hustle squad if I ever saw one. Shooting wouldn't be too bad either.

FreeRon · Post #12 » by **FreeRon** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 4:28 am

Haha the only problem is Foster can run the court until he's blue in the face but he'll have to wait for someone who can shoot to catch up! I love the guy's game but how you can shoot that poorly in the NBA I'll never know...

Post #13 » by **Grang33r** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 4:34 am

Shawne Williams is one incident away from joining Jamaal Tinsley's class.... not a good class to be in. That would totally flush any kind of value down the toilet. For now, he does have some, but i do think some people here over value him.

notque · Post #14 » by **notque** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 5:52 am

Why would you ever give up another granger?

What would you get to replace him? Not enough, i'll tell you that.

cdash · Post #15 » by **cdash** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 7:11 am

If Williams bulks up a little bit and proves he can play the 4 in a Villanueva-type fashion...and stays out of trouble...then I'd just assume hold onto him. But if we can get something of value that makes sense, I'm not opposed to moving him. I'm not buying his per 36 or whatever numbers that suggest he's going to make some great leap to a Granger-type level, but he is more of an asset than Bird has given him credit for I think.

Indydave · Post #16 » by **Indydave** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 2:09 pm

I say hold on to Shawne, but give him some consistent PT this year-- I think LB's statement last week could be taken as "we're not giving up on Shawne, but he'd better clean up his act quickly", so unless there's some blockbuster trade to be made, he'll be on our roster IMO.

As far as his value in the 'NBA market', he definitely has value, not nearly as much as some of the other starting members of his draft class, like Rudy Gay or Brandon Roy, but a lot more than several of the 'project' draft picks in his draft class like Patrick O'Bryant-- but about the same level of Ronnie Brewer or Thabo Sefolosha.

Granger da OG · Post #17 » by **Granger da OG** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 2:20 pm

Im liking the idea of shawne for a signed and traded Carl Landry

Post #18 » by **mizzoupacers** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 3:17 pm

Shawne has the magic combo: he has talent, and he's on a cheap contract.

So he should get one more "strike" before he's out.

If he effs up again off the court, though, then he will surely be gone.

I advocated drafting Williams when we did, since I saw him as a top-ten-pick talent who came out a year or two too soon, and since I wasn't sold on Marcus Williams (and still am not). But I have to admit that my interest in him has cooled a bit--not because he has been disappointing on the court (he hasn't), but because Dunleavy has turned out to be so much better than I ever thought he would be.

At this point I think Williams has to show that he can play well at somewhere besides small forward to be anything more than a luxury to the Pacers. I'd like to see him get a shot at some minutes at power forward this upcoming season.

Post #19 » by **count55** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 3:32 pm

I'm okay if we move him and get a Carl Landry (which I find doubtful), or if we can use him as a sweetener to get rid of Tinsley without taking back too much of a turd. However, if we can't get something decent for him, I'm ok with him being on the roster and fighting for minutes.

old school pacer fan · Post #20 » by **old school pacer fan** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 3:43 pm

granger33r, you are showing bias for Granger, S Williams is a KID, and like many of us as kids he has messed up, but , nothing to the point of giving up on him yet.

S williams on the real is a better athlete than ANY of our 3's , shoot just as well and is QUICKER AND A BETTER BALLHANDLER than any of our 3's, so why give up on him ?.
I still feel that given the SAME CHANCE that Granger has had S Williams WILL BE BETTER than Granger, IMO he is allready a better ball player , just younger and a little immature.

Do not throw the baby out with the bathwater just cause you like jump shooting Granger let S Williams develope and you WILL have something BETTER.