10-12 teams in need of a PG

[IndyDave02]

Bird recently stated that there were 10-12 teams in need of a point guard and that Tinsley could be traded. Since that time, Milwaukee signed Lue and Golden State added Marcus Williams. That leads me to a topic for board discussion:

1. Who do you think the 10-12 teams are the Bird has identified?
2. Of those teams, who might have a legitimate interest in Tinsely?
and
3. What do those teams have that could help us (other than addition by subtraction of Tinsley)?

[joew8302]

1. Heat
2. Wizards
3. Knicks
4. Cavs
5. Mavs
6. Nuggets
7. OKC
8. Sacramento
9. Portland (is Blake the answer, what will they do with Bayless)

Those are the ones most in need IMO.

[Bucky O'Hare]

He may have been including the Knicks and Clippers as well, who have both addressed their point guard situations since then. So 6-8 more teams in Bird's opinion. Let's see.....

Boston - Rondo is promising but Cassell is washed up, unlikely but not unfathomable, Scalabrine is the only bad contract I see

Cleveland - West is pretty mediocre, healthy Tinsley would be an upgrade, I could them maybe taking a chance on Jamaal, although doubtful since they're looking to have cap space in 2 years

Denver - Need a legit playmaker, Jamaal would fit the bill, but they just gave Camby away for financial reasons, so there's no way they'd touch his contract

Houston - a lot of mediocre point guards, no need to add another with a semi-big contract

Lakers - Fisher can shoot and defend better than Jamaal, Farmar is mildly promising off the bench, highly doubtful

Miami - We know the rumors, doesn't look like Riley is gonna bite unfortunately, keep hope alive

Phoenix - Nash needs a backup, Kerr apparently isn't opposed to trading for overweight, overpaid, injury prone has beens, slight chance

Sacramento - mediocre Udrih, but they're going through a semi-youth movement, no chance they'd want Jamaal



I'd say Miami is our only decent hope, with Boston and Cleveland being slight possibilities.

I wonder what the exact proposal bird made Riley? Was it just Tinsley for Haslem, one for one? If they'd accept Foster/Tinsley for Haslem/Banks, I'd probably take it.

[Grang33r]

1. Heat
2. Wizards
3. Knicks
4. Cavs
5. Mavs
6. Nuggets
7. OKC
8. Sacramento
9. Portland (is Blake the answer, what will they do with Bayless)

Those are the ones most in need IMO.

From that list, we can cross off Denver, Dallas, New York, the Kings and Portland.

Denver, Dallas and Portland don't want any problem childs on their team. I mean, Dallas may even trade away Josh Howard because he can't put down the pipe, they won't want to touch Tinsley.... Denver is a high-class city, i think they have all the thugs they can handle, the Kings want to fix their team, they are in our position just a few years back lol, they desperatly want to get some credibility back and kick out Artest and start fresh, no Tinsley in their future, and New York.... if Isiah was there, yes, but Donnie Walsh won't want anything to do with Jamaal.

I'm not sure about the rest, i just know we can cross those off.

[Walton'sBeard!]

1. Heat
2. Wizards
3. Knicks
4. Cavs
5. Mavs
6. Nuggets
7. OKC
8. Sacramento
9. Portland (is Blake the answer, what will they do with Bayless)

Those are the ones most in need IMO.

That's a big "NO" from Portland. We already have 3 guys (Bayless for the future, Blake for now and Rodriguez) plus Roy to handle the point. In fact, it looks we are sending Petteri Koponen back to Europe because of our PG depth.

I think the most realistic destination for Tinsley is Miami.

[LadiesLuvPGs]

I think it's also a big no from OKC. You're correct in saying they're involved in the point guard market... but they are SELLERS not buyers.

Westbrook, Ridnour, Watson. They are trying to get rid of one (definitely not Westbrook).

[basketballwacko2]

I've been seeing a lot of talk about the Suns wanting to move Diaw now if we could get Diaw for JT and Williams and a 2nd rd pk I'd do it. Diaw makes $9 million for the next 4 season, so JT would save them a yr. I'd do that deal but would the suns? They only have 10 guys right now so they're gonna have to find some bodies.

[joew8302]

I think some of you guys are misinterpreting my list. By no means am I saying all those teams would be interested in Tinsley. That was a list of teams who would probably be interested in significantly upgrading their pg position.

[MillerTime101]

I think some of you guys are misinterpreting my list. By no means am I saying all those teams would be interested in Tinsley. That was a list of teams who would probably be interested in significantly upgrading their pg position.

I dont think its being misinterpreted, you have Washington on there, they have Areans and Daniels. Portland has said they are going to try Bayless and Roy at the PG. You dont have Phoenix on there which is one of the more notable teams that has gone public saying they are interested in a PG.

[CableKC]

There are teams out there that need PGs....but won't want Tinsley.

[joew8302]

I think some of you guys are misinterpreting my list. By no means am I saying all those teams would be interested in Tinsley. That was a list of teams who would probably be interested in significantly upgrading their pg position.

I dont think its being misinterpreted, you have Washington on there, they have Areans and Daniels. Portland has said they are going to try Bayless and Roy at the PG. You dont have Phoenix on there which is one of the more notable teams that has gone public saying they are interested in a PG.

Awesome, go ahead, criticize my list while not putting one out there yourself.

[Bucky O'Hare]

I've been seeing a lot of talk about the Suns wanting to move Diaw now if we could get Diaw for JT and Williams and a 2nd rd pk I'd do it. Diaw makes $9 million for the next 4 season, so JT would save them a yr. I'd do that deal but would the suns? They only have 10 guys right now so they're gonna have to find some bodies.

I think Phoenix would do it, especially now that they've the similar Matt Barnes for cheao. I don't think we'd do it though. Diaw's contract is nasty - 4 years, $36M. We could have some nice cap space in a few seasons. Adding Diaw would take a big chunk out of that.

[dwpacer]

I think some of you guys are misinterpreting my list. By no means am I saying all those teams would be interested in Tinsley. That was a list of teams who would probably be interested in significantly upgrading their pg position.

I dont think its being misinterpreted, you have Washington on there, they have Areans and Daniels. Portland has said they are going to try Bayless and Roy at the PG. You dont have Phoenix on there which is one of the more notable teams that has gone public saying they are interested in a PG.

Awesome, go ahead, criticize my list while not putting one out there yourself.

These are the PG's that remain by either trade or free agency...

Jannero Pargo
Jason Williams
Jamaal Tinsley
Stephon Marbury
Royal Ivey
Carlos Arroyo
Flip Murray
Dan Dickau
Earl Boykins

If you noticed how short the list is...you're eyes aren't deceiving you, this is how short the remaining list is.

[mizzoupacers]

I'm not very good at figuring these sorts of things out, but my guess as of today is that our three best bets are Cleveland, Miami, and Phoenix.

I agree with those of you who said earlier that Phoenix might offer up Diaw to get an experienced backup for Nash and also some other throw-in like Williams. Diaw's contract is awful and runs even longer than Tinsley's, but if I'm Bird I'd probably hold my nose and do it, at least Diaw would actually play. Still, I think Miami and Cleveland could possibly make better offers.

Miami most likely would offer up Blount for Tinsley (if they make an offer at all). Blount is really mediocre, and we don't need another center for this year, but, well, Rasho and Foster are both in the last year of their deals, so maybe we could use Blount in 2009-2010. And Blount's contract is a year shorter than Tinsley's. I'd do it, if that's the best offer out there.

But what I'm most hopeful will happen is that Cleveland will offer up Wally Sczerbiak for Tin Man and maybe Marquis Daniels. Wally is in the last year of his contract, so next summer the Pacers could wave bye-bye to him and be clean of the whole Tinsley mess. And I think there's a glimmer of hope that Cleveland might do something like that to bring in a better playmaking guard than they have now. I think Cleveland is more concerned about convincing LeBron they are trying to improve the team than about conserving payroll to make a run at free agents next summer. Even if they take Wally off their books next summer, they'll still be unable to offer anything beyond the MLE.

Of course the Cavs could very well get better offers for Sczerbiak than Tinsley/Daniels.

[MillerTime101]

I think some of you guys are misinterpreting my list. By no means am I saying all those teams would be interested in Tinsley. That was a list of teams who would probably be interested in significantly upgrading their pg position.

I dont think its being misinterpreted, you have Washington on there, they have Areans and Daniels. Portland has said they are going to try Bayless and Roy at the PG. You dont have Phoenix on there which is one of the more notable teams that has gone public saying they are interested in a PG.

Awesome, go ahead, criticize my list while not putting one out there yourself.

Do you want me to retype the whole thing? I just gave some suggestions, if you add/subtract those to your list, you have my list.

Not sure why your being so sensitive, they were just a couple suggestions

[CableKC]

I agree with those of you who said earlier that Phoenix might offer up Diaw to get an experienced backup for Nash and also some other throw-in like Williams. Diaw's contract is awful and runs even longer than Tinsley's, but if I'm Bird I'd probably hold my nose and do it, at least Diaw would actually play.

I disgree here......although trading for a Utility Forward that can play some spot minutes at Center is one of the requirements that I have for trading Tinsley.....I do not want a player with a Contract that is bigger ( Diaw's contract is 4 yrs/36 mil ) that would affect our financial Flexiblility for the next 4 seasons. I would much rather buy out Tinsley then take on the additional $14mil more in guaranteed $$$ owed to a player that will likely play as a Backup Big Man for the foreseeable future that has been notorious for not playing up to his contract ( hmmmm....that sounds familiar ).

Unless we thought that Diaw was the answer to our PF needs...which he isn't....then I would not trade Tinsley for Diaw. I have zero problem with moving Tinsley for a Player with a comprable contract that we wouldn't even use.....I would even go as far as to accept a trade for Jerome James ( a completely useless Big Man that can foul out quicker then Harrison ) for Tinsley.....or even buying him out......but I refuse to trade him for a player that would put us in a financial bind over the next couple of seasons.

[mizzoupacers]

But CableKC, if we buy him out Tinsley still gums up our payroll for three more years, with absolutely no return on the investment, and by the third year the salary difference between him and Diaw is less than $1.5 million.

I understand your point of view--I don't want to see Diaw on the Pacers' payroll either, unless he is the best we can get for Tinsley. But I think it would be better to have Diaw playing for the Pacers for the next three years than have the Pacers paying Tinsley to play for someone else, and I don't think the extra cost over the next four years would hamper the team's future enough to offset the advantages gained.

[MillerTime101]

I too see your point Cable but I would still do Diaw for Tinsley in a new york minute and heres why:

1. It gets Tinsely off this team
2. Solves a need at PF
3. Diaws potential to increase his value dramatically ( he could have a real shot here to have a breakout year and could really have some trade value next year. )

[CableKC]

But CableKC, if we buy him out Tinsley still gums up our payroll for three more years, with absolutely no return on the investment, and by the third year the salary difference between him and Diaw is less than $1.5 million.

I understand your point of view--I don't want to see Diaw on the Pacers' payroll either, unless he is the best we can get for Tinsley. But I think it would be better to have Diaw playing for the Pacers for the next three years than have the Pacers paying Tinsley to play for someone else, and I don't think the extra cost over the next four years would hamper the team's future enough to offset the advantages gained.

Do you think that moving Tinsley is worth taking on Diaw who will add $9mil per year ( as opposed to the $7mil per year for Tinsley ) to the Salary Cap over the next 3 seasons while adding an additional 4th guaranteed year ( as a Player Option ) at the same price?

If I thought that Diaw was our answer to our PF needs...then yes, I would consider it. But since I don't think that he is worth that much and doing so would mess up any salarycap flexiblility that we have...then I say no to Diaw.

I am not saying that Diaw sucks, that he doesn't "techincally" fill a need and that I wouldn't hesitate to make that trade ( if I were to completely ignore the salary and financial impact that he would have for the immediate future ). I'm just saying that we have to be smart when it comes to trading Tinsley and how that trade would impact our financial situation. I am all for moving Tinsley for anything that we can get for him....but not if it means taking on more guaranteed $$$ then we send out.

Moving Tinsley isn't about "simply getting rid of him". If it was...we would have bought him out a long time ago. Because having a "deadweight" contract on the SalaryCap would not be considered a bad but a "last resort" type of move...that's why I think that TPTB are extremely reluctant to buy him out.

Paying an additional $14mil in guaranteed $$$ for a player that may fit a need but IMHO is not worth the $$$ that is he is paid...just to get rid of Tinsley...is not a smart move...it's a desperate move that I do not think is necessary.

[mizzoupacers]

Here's my year-by-year breakdown on a potential Tinsley/Williams for Diaw trade (to make salaries match, the Pacers would need to add a second player, so I'm inserting Williams as a likely candidate):

Year 1: Tinsley + Williams = approx. $8.3 million, Diaw = $9.0 million; for roughly $700,000 the Pacers acquire a guy who, barring injury, would most likely play more minutes for them next year than Tinsley and Williams COMBINED. Verdict:

Year 2: Tinsley = approx. $7.2 million, Diaw = $9.0 million; for approx. $1.8 million in added cost the Pacers pay a fairly decent player to play for them, rather than paying Tinsley to play for a competitor.

Year 3: Tinsley = approx. $7.65 million, Diaw = $9.0 million; for approx. $1.35 million the Pacers pay a fairly decent player to play for them, rather than paying Tinsley to play for a competitor.

(OK, it would cost the Pacers a little more extra than that for the first three years, assuming Tinsley bought out for less than his full guaranteed salary. But it's not going to be THAT much more; you know Tinsley is going to get the vast majority of his contract paid to him if it comes to a buyout.)

Year 4: Pacers pay $9.0 million for a fairly decent player, making that $9.0 million unavailable for potentially paying to a better player. :thumbsdown: But that is four years in the future, and it is totally hypothetical that Diaw's contract would cost them a shot at getting someone better...for all we know right now his expiring contract could be the final piece it takes to trade for, say, Pau Gasol. Anyway, if I ran the Pacers I'd be willing to take my chances on the 2011-2012 season in exchange for the clear advantages gained in each of the next three seasons.