RealGM

Deals could make Pacers players in '09 free agency
Jul 25, 2008
Bruno
http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5800009674

Based off this article There are a few free agents I think we should could target.
Leon Powe
Sean May
Linas Kleiza
Brandon Bass
Andrew Bynum
Hakim Warrick
Charlie Villanueva
David Lee
Channing Frye

I know a lot of these guys arent anything huge, but I think with the exception of maybe Bynum we would have a real shot at any of these guys. I really think Hakim would be the athletic freak we need on this team. I dont think Memphis would fight too much for him. With everyone focused on 2010 we could get some steals in 2009 offseason.

10 million under isn't nothing to sneeze at esp. since it's not yet factored Granger's nor Foster's extensions.

yeah but if we sign the free agent fist we are allowed to go over the cap to keep our own FA's

greenway84 wrote:Deals could make Pacers players in '09 free agency
Jul 25, 2008
Bruno
http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5800009674

Based off this article There are a few free agents I think we should could target.
Leon Powe
Sean May
Linas Kleiza
Brandon Bass
Andrew Bynum
Hakim Warrick
Charlie Villanueva
David Lee
Channing Frye

I know a lot of these guys arent anything huge, but I think with the exception of maybe Bynum we would have a real shot at any of these guys. I really think Hakim would be the athletic freak we need on this team. I dont think Memphis would fight too much for him. With everyone focused on 2010 we could get some steals in 2009 offseason.

frye and warrick would be perfect. Bynum probably will get an extention from Lakers, I dont see Lakers letting him go.

DannyGranger wrote:

greenway84 wrote:Deals could make Pacers players in '09 free agency
Jul 25, 2008
Bruno
http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5800009674

Based off this article There are a few free agents I think we should could target.
Leon Powe
Sean May
Linas Kleiza
Brandon Bass
Andrew Bynum
Hakim Warrick
Charlie Villanueva
David Lee
Channing Frye

I know a lot of these guys arent anything huge, but I think with the exception of maybe Bynum we would have a real shot at any of these guys. I really think Hakim would be the athletic freak we need on this team. I dont think Memphis would fight too much for him. With everyone focused on 2010 we could get some steals in 2009 offseason.

frye and warrick would be perfect. Bynum probably will get an extention from Lakers, I dont see Lakers letting him go.

I tend to agree with that. I'm hopeful though. LOL.

dwpacer wrote:10 million under isn't nothing to sneeze at esp. since it's not yet factored Granger's nor Foster's extensions.

I thought this years cap was set around 59 million. If its close to that again next year before Granger and Foster resign we would be close to 18 million under. Aslo I think everyone I mentioned with the exception of bynum could be signed to no more than 6 mil a year.

how much money will we have after giving granger an extension and resigning jack and foster?

Dcbaseballer52 wrote:yeah but if we sign the free agent fist we are allowed to go over the cap to keep our own FA's

This is not actually correct. Our own Free Agents (Granger, Jack, Foster, Nesterovic, Graham, McRoberts) will put a cap hold unless we renounce our "Bird" Rights to them. The cap hold is generally 150-200% of their last year's salary, as a rough figure (and can be higher_, depending on a number of factors.

As of today, we have about $43mm in actual contracts for next summer, then we have about $42mm in cap holds. Therefore, if we don't trade or renounce some of the players, then we will not have any cap room at all to sign free agents. This rule was put in place to specifically prevent the action your describing.

If you look at our FA's, (assuming no trades between now and then), we are certainly going to want to re-sign Danny. Danny, per DraftExpress.com, will have a caphold of just under $10mm next summer, putting us at about $53mm. If we were to sign Danny, it's reasonable to think that first year will be in the $9-10mm range, so we're in the ball park.

Jeff Foster's caphold is just over $8mm, so we have three choices here. We can re-sign or extend him, which would almost certainly bring his cap number back down to probably between $5 & 6mm, or we can keep his rights and let the cap hold sit at $8mm. In either of those two cases, it would result in us (incl Danny's contract) being at between $57 and $61mm. We could also renounce our rights, and he would have no cap hit, but we would, in all likelihood, no longer have Jeff.

The story is the same with Jarrett Jack, who's cap hold is close to $9mm. I'm pretty sure we could re-sign or extend him in the $4-5mm range, lowering his cap hold. Or we could let him go.

Pretty much anyway you slice it, we will not really be "under the cap" next summer, unless we just completely clean house and let everyone but Danny walk away.

However, that doesn't mean we won't be able to do anything in Free Agency. If, for example, we were re-sign Danny, Jack, and Foster, and sign our 1st rounder, we'd have a salary of $60-63mm, which should be at or slighly over the cap. However, the luxury tax threshhold will probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of $75mm next summer. (Both the cap and tax figures assume 5% growth, which is slightly below the average for the last two years.) Therefore, we would be free to use our MLE without worrying about the tax. If you'll note the comments from Bird:

We're always up against the luxury tax number, which we do not want to go over," said Bird. "By making the deals we have, we'll be able to re-sign our players next summer and go out and look into free agency. When you make these deals, I've always said, you're always going to have one area you feel isn't the strongest but, but you'll have the opportunity to go into free agency to address that. We've never had that available to us in the last few years.

You'll see that it's not necessarily being under the cap that provides the flexibility, but being well clear of the tax. Or, at least, that's how I read it.

I'm still of the opinion that if we are going to get a big name, we will need to do it through trading our expirings. This could be where a play for Okafor could be made, for example.

^
hard to say

Granger has a cap hold of 300% because he comes off the 4th year of his rookie contract (this season) into a new deal and his current salary is under the NBA average, or MLE value. Same goes for Jarret Jack.

Foster is coming off a standard contract which from what I read off the CBA FAQ, the Pacers can give him a new contract at the 10.5% increase of this coming year, roughly just over 6 million, which should roughly be next summer's MLE.

Beyond that the Pacers are heading for a cap out once next summer hits.

count55 wrote:

Dcbaseballer52 wrote:yeah but if we sign the free agent fist we are allowed to go over the cap to keep our own FA's

This is not actually correct. Our own Free Agents (Granger, Jack, Foster, Nesterovic, Graham, McRoberts) will put a cap hold unless we renounce our "Bird" Rights to them. The cap hold is generally 150-200% of their last year's salary, as a rough figure (and can be higher_, depending on a number of factors.

As of today, we have about $43mm in actual contracts for next summer, then we have about $42mm in cap holds. Therefore, if we don't trade or renounce some of the players, then we will not have any cap room at all to sign free agents. This rule was put in place to specifically prevent the action your describing.

If you look at our FA's, (assuming no trades between now and then), we are certainly going to want to re-sign Danny. Danny, per DraftExpress.com, will have a caphold of just under $10mm next summer, putting us at about $53mm. If we were to sign Danny, it's reasonable to think that first year will be in the $9-10mm range, so we're in the ball park.

Jeff Foster's caphold is just over $8mm, so we have three choices here. We can re-sign or extend him, which would almost certainly bring his cap number back down to probably between $5 & 6mm, or we can keep his rights and let the cap hold sit at $8mm. In either of those two cases, it would result in us (incl Danny's contract) being at between $57 and $61mm. We could also renounce our rights, and he would have no cap hit, but we would, in all likelihood, no longer have Jeff.

The story is the same with Jarrett Jack, who's cap hold is close to $9mm. I'm pretty sure we could re-sign or extend him in the $4-5mm range, lowering his cap hold. Or we could let him go.

Pretty much anyway you slice it, we will not really be "under the cap" next summer, unless we just completely clean house and let everyone but Danny walk away.

However, that doesn't mean we won't be able to do anything in Free Agency. If, for example, we were re-sign Danny, Jack, and Foster, and sign our 1st rounder, we'd have a salary of $60-63mm, which should be at or slighly over the cap. However, the luxury tax threshhold will probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of $75mm next summer. (Both the cap and tax figures assume 5% growth, which is slightly below the average for the last two years.) Therefore, we would be free to use our MLE without worrying about the tax. If you'll note the comments from Bird:

We're always up against the luxury tax number, which we do not want to go over," said Bird. "By making the deals we have, we'll be able to re-sign our players next summer and go out and look into free agency. When you make these deals, I've always said, you're always going to have one area you feel isn't the strongest but, but you'll have the opportunity to go into free agency to address that. We've never had that available to us in the last few years.

You'll see that it's not necessarily being under the cap that provides the flexibility, but being well clear of the tax. Or, at least, that's how I read it.

I'm still of the opinion that if we are going to get a big name, we will need to do it through trading our expirings. This could be where a play for Okafor could be made, for example.

Who are you the freakin Riddler. Well Riddle me this. How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. Hmm? LOL.

dwpacer wrote:Granger has a cap hold of 300% because he comes off the 4th year of his rookie contract (this season) into a new deal and his current salary is under the NBA average, or MLE value. Same goes for Jarret Jack.

Foster is coming off a standard contract which from what I read off the CBA FAQ, the Pacers can give him a new contract at the 10.5% increase of this coming year, roughly just over 6 million, which should roughly be next summer's MLE.

Beyond that the Pacers are heading for a cap out once next summer hits.

Seriously I feel like I accidently changed the channel from ESPN's First Take. To Court TV. lol

you can easily get Charlie V this year if you want him. perhaps May as well.

I'm not worried about the free agent market next year all that much. sure we'll have flexibility but if we can't get a 4 for some combination of Tinsley/Shawne/Quis now, I'd just draft one next summer and save our money for extensions.

These are the salaries likely to be on the books next year, I have rounded up and estimated on Foster Jack and Granger's contracts to give a more accurate look at what we will be dealing with.

Troy Murphy - 11mil
Mike Dunleavy - 10mil
TJ Ford - 8.5mil
Jamal Tinsley - 7.2mil
Danny Granger - 10.5mil
Jarret Jack - 5mil
Brandon Rush - 2mil
Travis Diener - 1.7mil
Shawn Williams - 2.4mil
Roy Hibbert - 1.5mil
Stephen Graham - 1mil
Draft pick - 2mil
Jeff Foster - 5mil

67.8 Mil for 13 roster spots leaves us in pretty much the same situation as this year, we could use the MLE to sign a decent player but as long as we have Tinsley and Murphy on this team we will not have much financial freedom.

Well you know who jumps off that free agent list to me. LINAS KLEIZA!!!

Gotta have us a Mizzou Pacer on the roster. Only good things can come of that! Just look how the Pacers took off with Steve Stipanovich and Kareem Rush...oh wait.

Correct me if i'm wrong, our would-be-free-agents next offseason would be Graham, Foster, Baston, Jack, McRoberts, Granger, and Rasho, right? Among them, i think only Granger, Foster and Jack would / might be re-signed. Meaning, we might be leaning towards finding a big man in the free agent market.
A young, inexpensive big man, i suppose.

-I like Kleiza, but he plays the same position as Granger. He's perimeter-oriented, and is not a post player. He'll be more efficient at the 3 spot. Plus, i'm thinking there'll be other teams (for sure) with bigger offers than Indiana.

- Warrick (restricted free agent) would be a great addition, but i think Memphis will keep him. They're building a young freakishly athletic team in Conley, Lowry, Mayo, Gay, and Warrick. And i'm expecting him to have a huge contract in 2009.

- Should the Pacers have not enough money to sign a big name, i think Aaron Gray should be considered. He's a solid contributor, good work ethic, and has a good inside game (despite having only 10 mins a game). He's not gonna have that playing time in Chicago, but he produces at every given chance nonetheless. Plus, he's cheaper than the others.

mizzoupacers wrote:Well you know who jumps off that free agent list to me. LINAS KLEIZA!!!

Gotta have us a Mizzou Pacer on the roster. Only good things can come of that! Just look how the Pacers took off with Steve Stipanovich and Kareem Rush...oh wait.

I think that Kleiza is a RFA...and surprisingly...by the 2009-2010 season...the Nuggets should have enough capspace to match and resign him if they wish....especially if we just throw the MLE at him.

i think it very, very unlikely we will be under the cap next off-season, as we would have to be out of our minds not to keep granger & foster. so all we will really have is the mid-level exception, but i agree that we should look to use it unless another significant trade is pulled off.

these are the players i would consider worthy targets:

anderson varejao (player option)

damn... ok, so as it turns out, i am not a big fan of the free agents i think will command the mle. david lee wouldn't be bad, but i think he will probably command more than the mle. chris wilcox might be worth a look, but i'm not at all sold on this guy. maybe there is someone who plays on their one year tender this year and becomes free (ben gordon?) or maybe a euro player or nba player playing in europe for a season with an opt out?

i think a better option may be to utilize an expiring contract or two to bring in some players that are already signed. we can focus on cap space and free agents in the summer of 2011.

greenway84 wrote:Based off this article There are a few free agents I think we should could target.
Leon Powe
Sean May
Linas Kleiza
Brandon Bass
Andrew Bynum
Hakim Warrick
Charlie Villanueva
David Lee
Channing Frye

Based off of your list, I would only offer the "Full MLE" to in this order:

1 ) Powe ( UFA )
2 ) Lee ( RFA )
3 ) Kleiza ( RFA )

The only player that I think is worth it to offer more then the Full MLE is Leon Powe.....based off of how he performed in the Playoffs with his ability to score in the paint...I would offer up to $7 mil for him ( assuming that we have the salarycap space ).

As for the rest of the list:

Bynum - he's going to get a MAX offer...so we can't afford him.
Brandon Bass - I wouldn't mind making a run for Brandon Bass....but probably nothing more then 3-4 mil ( which I doubt that we can get him for ).
Warrick - he's more of a SF then a PF...so pass.
CV - he just reminds me of the Tweener Forwards that fall into the Al Harrington/Donyell Marshall mold that to doesn't really fit our needs for a Low-Post scorer.
Frye - I don't mind offering anything more then 3-4 mil....but I have no clue whether he is worth it or not.
Sean May - I read on the Bobcats RealGM board that he's injury prone and currently overweight....so pass.

MillerTime101 wrote:These are the salaries likely to be on the books next year, I have rounded up and estimated on Foster Jack and Granger's contracts to give a more accurate look at what we will be dealing with.

Just to expand on what you had initially brought up....we would have 9 guaranteed contracts ( including whoever we draft in 2009 ) at $46.75 mil at the start of the 2009-2010 season.

Troy Murphy - $11.05 mil
Mike Dunleavy - $9.78 mil
TJ Ford - $8.78mil
Jamal Tinsley - $7.20 mil ( assuming that he is bought out )
Shawn Williams - $2.42 mil ( assuming thta he isn't traded )
Travis Diener - $1.74 mil
Brandon Rush - $2.25 mil ( with a 750k raise from his rookie-year salary )
Roy Hibbert - $2.0 mil ( with a 500k raise from his rookie-year salary )
2009-2010 1st Round Draft pick - $1.5 mil

Just to be sure....I will add in another 500k to cover any possible +/- for Rush/Hibbert/2009-2010 Draft pick's estimated salaries. That would leave us with a $47.25 mil Salarycap to work with.

Since I'm a pessimist when it comes to how much we will resign Granger and Jack to.....I'll be a little bit more conservative with my estimates for the 2009-2010 salaries.

For Granger, although I hope that ( at best ) he will accept a similiar contract offer to Monta/Biedrins starting at $10.5mil/6 years....since I think that the Blazers will go after Granger as well and Granger's agent will likely site Okafor's contract extension as a comparison ( Tx MJ for overpaying an injury prone PF/C )....I will defer to a more conservative estimate of $12.5 mil/6 year contract offer as my "ABSOLUTE worst case scenario" contract price.

For Jack, I agree with you on the $5.0 mil contract offer.

Since I don't think that we will resign Graham beyond this season....that would leave us at 11 players with a "worst case scenario" 2009-2010 Salarycap of $64.75 mil.

PG - Ford / Jack / Diener
SG - Dunleavy / Rush
SF - Granger / Shawne
PF - Murphy / ??? ( maybe our 2009-2010 draft pick ? )
C - Hibbert / ??? / ???

Assuming that the Luxury Tax limit will be similiar to what it was this year ( about $71.15mil )....in my "worst case scenario" 2009-2010 SalaryCap situation....that would mean that we would have about $6.4 mil left to sign any anywhere between 2 to 4 FAs....which, given our likely depth chart...would likely acquiring, drafting or trading for Frontcourt players.

I would be happy with giving the vast majority to Foster....starting at $6mil.....which maybe slightly overpaying for him...despite his age...but I think that there will be teams out there that will offer him up to the full MLE just to get him ( most notably Playoff bound teams that just got bounced that need rebounding help ).

With that much to spend....who could we get to help fill our Backcourt needs?

fienX420 wrote:i think it very, very unlikely we will be under the cap next off-season, as we would have to be out of our minds not to keep granger & foster. so all we will really have is the mid-level exception, but i agree that we should look to use it unless another significant trade is pulled off.

these are the players i would consider worthy targets:

anderson varejao (player option)

I think that Varajeo is going to ask for more then $7-8 mil. Not that he is worth that much.....but he was not entirely happy with the way his RFA situation turned out with the Cavs.

fienX420 wrote:i think a better option may be to utilize an expiring contract or two to bring in some players that are already signed. we can focus on cap space and free agents in the summer of 2011.

I agree on this....but I'm not sure who we can get for Marquis, Tinsley or Shawne that won't break the bank for us and mess up our SalaryCap situation next season.

freeman wrote:- Should the Pacers have not enough money to sign a big name, i think Aaron Gray should be considered.

the return of Stuart? anyone know if Aaron is his son?