Tinsley for West sign and trade?

[notque]

What about Tinsley for Delonte West, with whatever else you think may be required.

[ProudPacer17]

The Pacers will not go for anymore guards. They are strictly going for a big man or two. They only way they would go against this and trade for another guard is if it was a washed up player with a hefty expiring contract that they got in return.

[greenway84]

i disagree. If you offered me West for the same price and length as tinsley id be dumb not to take it. needed or not a talented player that stays out of trouble is better than a muck who spends more time in a mug shot than in a jersey. you could offer me any player at all ANY. with the same contract as tinsley that stays out of trouble and i wouldnt think twice. not even close.

[FreeRon]

It would be an upgrade...I don't think the Cavs would do it anyways, but if we did this I would hope we made it a much shorter contract for West. Not sure he'd bite, but in a perfect world...

[Wizop]

West isn't worth the money Tinsley gets. I'd trade for him signed for about half Tinsley's contract if you'll thrown in someone else making up the difference. I think we do have a 2mm trade exemption that might come into play too.

however, what we really need is a 4 not another guard. we'll give Cavs Shawne Williams for Hickson.

[basketballwacko2]

couple things to think about when talking about this 1, the cavs are in a rough spot on their cap/luxury tax situation they're at like $87 million something about $16 million over the projected tax threashold. So if they sign West to the same money as Danny Gibson their looking at it costing them $7.4 millon and that's if he gets a $3.7 mill deal like Gibson. West is gonna want more, but every dollar they give him costs them $2. 2nd problem is if you s& for West he is gonna be byc1. so only half his salary comes to us. If we give him $6 million the for a trade he counts half that so we send out $3 million plus 25%+$100k (someone correct me if that's not right) that's the most we can send to the cavs in a legal deal, $3.850 million.

The Cavs are gonna want to save some money if they can so if you can find a deal to move them less salary then they might bite. I was thinking 3 team deal with the Suns who also want to dump some salary, and needs players to fill out their roster. Deal starts out with us sending Rasho $8.4 mil and Daniels $6.9 to the Cavs for Wally $13.7 million and Joe Smith $4.8 millon. We'd be taking $18.5 and giving $15.3 roughly rounded. Saving the Cavs $3.2 million is salary and $6.4 total with the tax.

We then send JT $6.75 million, Joe Smith $4.8, Diener $1.6 and to the suns for Diaw $9 million and Barbosa $6.1, that's $13.15 for $15.1 saving the Suns almost $2 million getting them closer to the Tax Threashold and the rebate $4 millon after tax and about $7 million with the rebate.

Pacer send out
Rasho $8.4
Daniels $6.9
JT $6.75
Diener $1.6

Total $23.65

Pacers in:
Wally $13.7
Diaw $9.0
Barbosa $6.1

Total $28.8

Pacers are taking about $5 million in extra salary here putting us over the tax threashold. So wally's big exp contract would have to be moved at mid season to avoid the tax and get the rebate. We'd have to trade his $13.7 for no more than $11.1 and move Graham and McBob.

[joew8302]

This would not e my first option for moving Tinsley. Beggars can not be choosers, but I am at least hopeful we can do better.

[Scoot McGroot]

If you look at the moves over the past few years for teams that were trying to get under the luxury tax at the deadline, they had to pay handsomely to do so (include 1 or 2 1st round picks or multiple 2nd round picks for a very small sized Marc Jackson type contract).


We would be unable or highly unlikely to be able to cut several million on a Wally deadline deal. If we go over the luxury tax now, it's most likely at this point that we'd end up over the luxury tax. Thus, that type of move would likely cost the Pacers around $12 million in costs above the luxury tax limit.









However, the Cavs are simply NOT going to take on Tinsley for West. They'd likely rather just let West walk to Europe and if they had ANY interest in Tinsley it would be in a larger deal for Ben Wallace, or possibly if we included some other future value (picks) we could maybe get a Damon Jones/Billy Thomas/Lance Allred package (all 3 are necessary for the trade to legally work), where all 3 are not valued in any way by Cleveland, and if we bribe them with enough future value, they might take it. Thomas and Allred are non-guaranteed, and we could cut Jones to get under the roster limit since he expires.

However, the Cavs are not going to give up someone that they like, or even a decent player. They're not giving up Eric Snow (since he can retire and be removed from their cap due to his injuries, and they're going to REALLY need that money off their cap immediately). They're not going to give up core players like Joe Smith, Hickson, Gibson, Ilgauskas, LeBron, etc. They might move Varejao if it's in a package they really need.

[basketballwacko2]

yeah after i looked at the deal i put together it is too much to do, I'd look at doing one half or the other but not both. Really just forget the Cavs side of it al together. We could do Tinsley and Graham to the Suns for Diaw taking $9 million sending out about $7.6 saving the Suns $1.4 and and equal amount of Tax. That would give the Suns a much needed roster addition and cut their long term salaries and we'd get rid of JT. Could we also get ourselves a draft pick for saving the suns all that money?

then we s and t kristic from the nets, Daniels and Williams and a 2nd for Kristic $4 million and KVH who we cut.

[DannyGranger]

For West to be traded, Cavs would have to sign him. Cavs said that they wont offer West more than they offered Gibson. Im sure the salaries wont match. I think the most likely trading partner is Miami. We could package something like Tinsley + Shawne Willaims + Daniels + 1st rounder pick for Marionhttp://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap ... id_gibson/

[Scoot McGroot]

That's still a long way off from working financially. We'd have to include either Foster or Rasho as well, and probably more long-term value.

[basketballwacko2]

We could package something like Tinsley + Shawne Willaims + Daniels + 1st rounder pick for Marion

i cant imagine the heat doing that.

[basketballwacko2]

OK I keep forgetting about the BYC1 and i'm the one who started talking about it kristic will be BYC1 if we sign and trade. What if he takes the Qualifying offer from the nets $2.76 million? if we s&t with the nets for kristic at $4 million per he counts only $2 million in the trade so $2 + KVH $3.8 is only $5.8 plus $100k if we send Daniels and Williams that's $8.5 million and that doesn't work either way so we have to add salary for the nets or make Kristics new contract a lot higher like $6 million($6 yr 1, $5.5 yr 2, $5 yr 3) counting $3 millon for the trade. I think that works but is that enough for the nets. We save $2.5 million after cutting KVH.

[cavsfan_osiris]

I would be shocked beyond believe if the Cavs were interested. There just isn't any realistic scenario in which this would be a possibility. Indiana would have to be the ones offering up a sweetheart deal in order to dump the huge risk that Tinsley is at his salary.

If you guys keep him and he balls his butt off then maybe his trade value climbs, but his value is pretty much dirt right now.

[Bucky O'Hare]

I would be shocked beyond believe if the Cavs were interested. There just isn't any realistic scenario in which this would be a possibility. Indiana would have to be the ones offering up a sweetheart deal in order to dump the huge risk that Tinsley is at his salary.

If you guys keep him and he balls his butt off then maybe his trade value climbs, but his value is pretty much dirt right now.

Which is what makes a Wallace for Tinsley/Quis deal plausible. Our dirt and an expiring contract to Cleveland for their dirt (Ben Wallace).

Why you remind us of how low Jamaal Tinsley's value is, let me remind you that horrible Ben Wallace is owed 30-million dollars over the next two seasons.

[Wizop]

I think you guys are wrong about byc on a sign and trade. I think if it is done as a single deal the byc bites the new team on a subsequent deal and not the original team on the first deal. you might check the cbafaq to see.

[cavsfan_osiris]

dup

[cavsfan_osiris]

I understand how horrible Ben Wallace's contract is and how horrible of a player he is at this point of his career, but what you don't understand is that trade proposal doesn't help Cleveland.

Indiana would have to put together such an incredible offer that the Cavs couldn't say no, that is not such an offer and it is not realistic to think Indiana would present an offer the Cavs couldn't resist.

I don't mean to burst the bubble on hopes to get Tinsley out of there, but we have to be real about this. Anything's possible, but it's extremely unlikely that any trade happens with him because of all the things surrounding him that are well documented. I doubt any team wants to even be rumored to be interested in him, that's how bad this have gotten with him.

Tinsley is a talented player. If he wasn't injury prone and maybe lived a more low-key life off the court then maybe there would be something to talk about, but then maybe you guys wouldn't need to run him out of town either.

[Bucky O'Hare]

I understand how horrible Ben Wallace's contract is and how horrible of a player he is at this point of his career, but what you don't understand is that trade proposal doesn't help Cleveland.

Indiana would have to put together such an incredible offer that the Cavs couldn't say no, that is not such an offer and it is not realistic to think Indiana would present an offer the Cavs couldn't resist.

I don't mean to burst the bubble on hopes to get Tinsley out of there, but we have to be real about this. It's extremely unlikely that any trade happens with him.

Tinsley is better than any PG on your roster (Eric Snow).
Quis is better than any SG on your roster (Daniel Gisbon).
You lose the worst player in the NBA and his horrific contract.

How doesn't this help your team? You need a PG more than we need to lose Tinsley.

If you were giving up anything of positive value, I could understand your complaints. But you don't seem to understand Ben Wallace has as much negative value as Jamaal Tinsley, possibly more.

[cavsfan_osiris]

You still don't understand the situation. If Tinsley stays healthy and doesn't get involved in off-court problems he would be a good addition for 10 teams or so in the NBA. However any team that would think about acquiring him would need something to fall back on if Tinsley does the same thing he's done for most of his career, which is fail.

The GM acquiring Tinsley would need to sell the following to the fans and organization: 'If Tinsley fails, as should be expected, then at least we did _____, at least we got _____ so Tinsley's expected failure isn't the end of the world.' Now of course it wouldn't be phrased that bluntly to the fans, but that's the way it would have to be discussed internally.

The proposed trade involving Ben Wallace does not do enough to fill in those blanks in the assumed case that Tinsley fails. It doesn't matter that Ben Wallace is also a garbage player. A GM that would trade for a guy like Tinsley in a deal that doesn't make sense even in the case that Tinsley fails is a GM that won't have a job very long. Owners aren't too keen on paying millions of dollars to screw ups and malcontents who don't play over half the season.