SI gives Pacers a "C+" for thier report card (recent)

[HicksvsKnicks08]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/w ... ard/1.html

Man, everyone is killing us for the Bayless trade. I really , really hope Rush turns out better than expected

[Miller4ever]

We made the best decision using the information we definitely knew (something that can't be said for the Bush administration). We chose to get a Brandon Rush who, if you watch him play, doesn't really do extraordinary things like no-look passes or flashy dunks, but he gets the job done, and he has an attitude that we need to bring in. Right now, positive image is more important to the Pacers than talent, and very often, there's reasons beyond potential for drafting a player (something that the Wizards didn't get when they selected Kwame Brown).

[FreeRon]

Eh same dude gave Chicago a B just because this isn't last year and they made the most obvious choice in basketball history. They haven't managed to get rid of Hinrich, Ben Gordon wants out like no other, and Luol Deng is considering Europe. They have no big man and while Thomas and Noah are nice players they aren't a force to be reckoned with. I'm not sold on Rose, either, but we'll have to see how that goes. All in all, though, while they should be a little better it is not inconceivable that they will be the same or worse this year. The Pacers trade away the 11th pick for the 13th and a backup PG and they can't get rid of Tinsley. That somehow negates solving the PG problem, getting a decent 5 (which is rare any more), and getting rid of a huge salary player who didn't want to be here. The point he makes about unloading Murphy and Dunleavy gives him even less credibility because Murphy turned out to be what we thought he would be and Dunleavy turned out better. We obviously want to get rid of them...that's what Golden State was trying to do when we got them. The only way to move them is for more bad contracts or for players with horrible attitudes, which we've had enough of. This guy's a joke.

[Donerik]

I didn't know Dunleavy was apparently on the trading block, arguably our best player last year, a bit slow on defense but you can't buy that kind of shooting, or a guy who keeps his nose clean...

Apparently to work at SI you just have to ignore GM's and Owners when they say they aren't going to buy a guy out. Ignore trades made to bring in an a top mid-top teir pointguard, and another starter to back that guy up, while retaining your main guy(deiner) who was top 5 in assist turnover, not back for a backup! So to write for SI you just have to Ignore Larry Ledgend and Dave Morroway when they say they won't buy Tinsley out, and Ignore positive elements of trades, and drafting Roy Hibbert the first step to rebuilding that front line.

[glasket]

Not the best of articles. I don't agree with many of his opinions.

1. We have TJ, Jack, Deiner and Quisy at the PG. To me that solves our problems
2. Mikey D proved to us that he was worth the money and I don't think he was on the trading block
3. Troy is expensive and I agree with the writer on this one.
4. TJ does not equal 50% of JO's value.
I liked JO and will wish him all the best but he spent long periods riding the bench with injuries and when he played he wasn't as productive. His value to the Pacers was lower than his actual market value. TJ's value to the Pacers is much higher and the trade was good for both teams.
5. I probably would have kept Bayliss but lets see how Rush turns out as I really like his laid back attitude and no frills high class game. Its too early to put such harsh criticism on the Pacers for this trade. I hope the trade works out for both the Pacers and the Blazers.

[FreeRon]

Glasket...I agree with the guy on Murphy not being worth his contract as well. The point where he loses me is when he calls it a loss not to move the guy. I'm a firm believer that we put little to no effort into doing this. For one, he is as of now our starting PF. Also, we're well aware that we would have to take trash back for him and he's really not hurting us outside of his contract.

As to the Bayless deal...I realize that a lot of people would like to see TJ/Bayless and Dun/Quis rather than TJ/Jack and Dun/Rush, but the deal really makes a lot of sense to me. Bayless is more of a SG than a PG and is quite frankly a flashy ball hog. I haven't heard anybody say he's better than Rush at this point, just that he has the potential to be. We know what we got in Jack and Rush. We didn't know for sure what we were getting in Jerryd Bayless. Everyone seems to be jumping on our backs for this trade, but there's something you've got to remember about potential...it's just that. For every guy that lives up to his hype there's one that doesn't. For every guy who exceeds his potential there are two that fail. How many people were knocking the Colts for drafting Peyton Manning over Ryan Leaf? Then the next year they were crying about Edge over Ricky Williams. Peyton's possibly the best QB to ever play and certainly is the best in the NFL right now (just imagine what he could do if he knew what the other team's plays were before the snap), and Edge is a potential Hall of Famer. Leaf is somewhere throwing cameras around, and Ricky is in the back of the Dolphins locker room in a toga passing around the peace pipe. So there you have it. A paragraph that starts with Jerryd Bayless and ends with weed. Can you not see how keeping him would be wrong?

[Gremz]

I'm hoping we'll be able to turn that C+ into a B+ by the end of the season.
I'ts hard to agree or disagree with it atm, we just don't know what this team is gonna do.

[pacershereiam]

This guy is a freak. Who is he to write about the Pacers. He has no idea what he is talking about. First off, The Pacers are a much better team. You get an all-star type PG in Ford, a possible starting point guard in Jack. That is a pretty good upgrade. Secondly, the Pacers trade Bayless for Jack and Rush. Like many of you say, Rush isn't the most exciting player with the fancy plays, but he gets the job done, and that is what we need. We needed a guy who can shoot the ball and defend which is what Rush does. Thirdly, We take JO and ship him out. We get Rasho, and Ford. We get a decent big man, and nice salary cap space next summer. Fourth, Troy Murphy started to play well at the end of last year. Yea, he isn't the best player that we could want, but he has started to feel comfortable. Mike Dunleavy would never be on the trading block after the kind of year he had. Fifth, We will not buy out Tinsley. Bird has said it, Morway has said it, Simon has said it. There is no way he is getting bought out. We are looking good now as a team. A look at the Roster:
PG:Ford,Jack,Diener
SG:Dunleavy,Rush,Daniels
SF:Granger,Williams
PF:Murphy,Baston
C:Foster,Rasho,Hibbert

That is a lot better of a team than:
Tinsley/Diener/Owens
Dunleavy/Daniels/Graham
Granger/Williams
Oneal/Diogu
Foster/Murphy

We will win atleast 10 more games next year if not more. I am really excited. Tinsley will not be on this team by the time the season starts or ends.

We get nice salary cap space next summer in Rasho,Foster, Jack, and Daniels expiring. We do however, have to resign Granger, Jack, and Foster. So that will take up quite a bit, but I think we will have some to get a good player.

[mizzoupacers]

Yeah, I don't completely agree with SI's assessment either.

Maybe T. J. Ford is 50 cents to JO's dollar, but he left out Hibbert, who is hopefully at least worth a quarter, plus the boatload of money saved by bringing in the expiring contracts of Rasho and Baston. And you know what they say, a penny saved is a penny earned. Only the Pacers saved quite a few pennies. I'd say we got more than a dollar's worth of value back for JO.

The writer's calendar must still say 2007 if he thinks Dunleavy has a bad contract. Can't argue about Tinsley or Murphy though.

And in the Bayless-Rush trade he left out the part about how we also exchanged the thoroughly useless Ike Diogu for a nice backup pg. That changes things a little. I wasn't happy about trading Bayless, but hey, the jury is out on it, and I'm willing to suspend judgment until it plays itself out.

I'll give the Pacers a solid B. Will change to an A+ if the front office can somehow unload Tinsley without taking on even more bad salary in return.

[HicksvsKnicks08]

Right now, positive image is more important to the Pacers than talent

Respectfully,

I could'nt disagree more. It is possible to find talent and good people. People can be way to judge mental at times, and if the Pacers do not assamble talent, they will be medicore at best for a long time. Yes it is nice if there are no off court distractions, or if their pleasent when you meet them in person. If you cant produce on the court though, then we need better. Right now Pacers have Ford/Granger as "talent" possibly Rush and Hibbert could fit that discription later. We need talent to compete. We could have worked out a way to get BOTH Rush and Bayless

[HicksvsKnicks08]

it's just that. For every guy that lives up to his hype there's one that doesn't.

Free Ron,

I agree, and honestly I think I am like you in wanting to believe that Rush was the best move. It's just when you take everything into consideration Bayless's high school stats, his season at Arizona, and his play in the summer league, to me he loks like the real deal. However I understand the Pacers thinking, the only way this turns out really bad for us, is if Bayless becomes an All-Star, and Rush is aat best a role player

[JarrettJackSG]

Flashy ball hog? Really? How can we judge a person like that?

How is Bayless a bust already? This is hilarious, the only way we can defend this trade is by automatically calling him a bust. Any less, and we lose on the trade, big time.

[Gremz]

I can't, and i won't. I too was beyond ecstatic when i heard we picked up Bayless in the draft. However we don't have him, and to be honest i really don't mind, i love the mentality of the two new rookies. They're such great guys that i really don't mind how good Bayless is/was.

Because what we really need right now is a TEAM. not an individual commodity. I'm a real believer that Rush will be a mainstay Pacer for years, and atleast we know he will never be schooled on D.

[JarrettJackSG]

Haha, I really don't think he'll be that good of a defensive player..above average, but not lockdown.

The only hope I have was that Bird was right about Granger, Rudy Fernandez, and etc.. but wrong on Shawne.

[FreeRon]

Flashy ball hog? Really? How can we judge a person like that?

How is Bayless a bust already? This is hilarious, the only way we can defend this trade is by automatically calling him a bust. Any less, and we lose on the trade, big time.

A) I honestly for the life of me can't see how you got this from my post. I'm assuming you're responding to my post since you used the words flashy ball hog, which I used. I did not, however, call him a bust by any means. I'm just saying that at this point Rush is the better player and what everyone is worried about is his potential while there's always the POSSIBILITY that he busts. We know what we have in Rush and Jack and we don't take that risk.

B) Flashy ball hog. I'll stand by it until he proves he's anything but. 29.8 PPG on better than 48% shooting is great. If he does that in the regular season I'll give him credit for being a useful ball hog. However, if these guys are going to point out that he won whatever awards and shot however well, we also need to keep in mind that he was playing against a lot of players who will be in the D-League at best this year. On top of that, he tied for 65th in the SUMMER LEAGUE with 1.3 assists while committing 3.75 turnovers. I don't know about you, but to me a 0.3 assist to turnover ratio just isn't that great. You expect much more out of your PG.

I'm not saying that Bayless won't be better than Rush. In fact, I believe he'll be the better of the two players. I still think that the trade was a good idea, though, because it's still entirely possible that he won't end up meeting his potential and should TJ stay healthy Rush fits the team better. Just to recap so nobody else jumps on me about something I never said...Bayless is not as good as Rush, he probably will be in a few years, and the bonuses of getting Jack, getting rid of Diogu, and saving some money by signing the 13th pick instead of the 11th outweigh the risk we took that Bayless will be a superstar to me.