Pacers/Knicks/Grizzlies

[Train7492]

This trade includes the two hardest peices to trade in the NBA. I know the talks on Z-Bo to Memphis have went down hill but what if a third team got involved and through in a younger guy to the Grizzlies. As a Pacer fan I'm not saying this really improves us talent wise but we at least move a couple of the bad character guys.

Indy trades: Tinsley, Rasho, Williams, Graham
Gets: Jaric, Darko, Chandler

Knicks trade: Z-Bo, Chandler
Gets: Tinsley, Rasho, Graham

Memphis trade: Jaric, Darko
Gets: Z-Bo, Williams

To me Memphis get a great deal. The Knicks can't really complain, other than the Tinsley haters. The Pacers lose talent but we start new era. The one thing that I would like to see is if there is some way that we could pull Warrick out of the deal. Maybe give them Chandler or Baston and McRoberts.

[Miller4ever]

The last thing Donnie Walsh is going to do is pull the trigger on a trade that gets him Tinsley AGAIN.

For that reason, this trade is impossible. I also don't want Jaric or Darko. The last thing we need is more overpaid white big men in the case of Darko, and Jaric doesn't help us much in the young talent, and Chandler plays a position in which we need no help.

Tinsley haters? I would believe when Donnie Walsh quit the Pacers, one of the top ten reasons was Jamaal Tinsley. Pass.

[CableKC]

The last thing Donnie Walsh is going to do is pull the trigger on a trade that gets him Tinsley AGAIN.

For that reason, this trade is impossible. I also don't want Jaric or Darko. The last thing we need is more overpaid white big men in the case of Darko, and Jaric doesn't help us much in the young talent, and Chandler plays a position in which we need no help.

Tinsley haters? I would believe when Donnie Walsh quit the Pacers, one of the top ten reasons was Jamaal Tinsley. Pass.

You are under the mistaken impression that the Pacers are in a position to actually come out ahead in any trade involving Tinsley. The best that we can hope for is that we don't get any "cancers" while not ruining our financial flexibility for the next 2 seasons.

Although count55 would actually have to help me run the #s, as long as we still have the ability to resign Granger and Jack next offseason, I would actually ponder this trade since we get back some serviceable players. If possible...I would try to include Miami in this trade to see if we could swap Haslem for Darko.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I understand we are going to get screwed talent wise in a Tinsley trade, but in this case we get screwed by both talent and salary. We would be so much better off just keeping Tinsley.

[Miller4ever]

You are under the mistaken impression that the Pacers are in a position to actually come out ahead in any trade involving Tinsley. The best that we can hope for is that we don't get any "cancers" while not ruining our financial flexibility for the next 2 seasons.

I am aware that we're not going to get much back for Tinsley. I would trade him for a slice of pizza and a coke. I'm saying that Darko isn't exactly worth the aforementioned pizza and beverage himself. I actually wouldn't mind Jaric and Chandler, I was just lumping them with Darko. The trade is a complete no-go, though (ha) because it would involve Donnie Walsh trading FOR Tinsley.

[CableKC]

You are under the mistaken impression that the Pacers are in a position to actually come out ahead in any trade involving Tinsley. The best that we can hope for is that we don't get any "cancers" while not ruining our financial flexibility for the next 2 seasons.

I am aware that we're not going to get much back for Tinsley. I would trade him for a slice of pizza and a coke. I'm saying that Darko isn't exactly worth the aforementioned pizza and beverage himself. I actually wouldn't mind Jaric and Chandler, I was just lumping them with Darko. The trade is a complete no-go, though (ha) because it would involve Donnie Walsh trading FOR Tinsley.

Darko isn't that bad as a Center. He's clearly not the #2 pick that the Pistons hoped he would be....but he is serviceable as a rotational Defensive Big Man that I think would not only have value as an expiring Contract in 2009-2010, I think that there maybe teams out there interested in him.

Also...thinking about it, although DW would likely veto this trade based purely on taking on Tinsley.....I could see a SMALL chance that IF the deal involved was the one that Train7492 proposed ( where the Knicks basically take on Tinsley and Expiring Contracts for Randolph ) that DW would consider it since this would free up ALOT of Salarycap for the next 2 seasons. Although Tinsley's contract would be on the books for the next 3 seasons, the Knicks would have dumped a whole lot of salary for the next 2 seasons allowing them resign players like David Lee or pursue other FA. I know, there isn't alot there....but taking on Tinsley in favor of dumping Randolph shaves off about $8-9 mil of Salary for each year.

The only thing would be what the Grizzlies would want since they wanted Draft picks and $$$. Since I do not see any need for Chandler, I don't mind if Wilson Chandler was sent to the Grizzlies along with Shawne as young prospect.

In the end, this would likely fall on whether the Knicks or the Grizzlies do this......but I doubt that IF the Pacers came out with Jaric ( who IMHO is serviceable ) and Darko that they would balk on this trade.

Also...assuming that this trade would not hinder out ability to resign both Granger and Jack....taking on Darko would pretty much amount to getting the rotational Big Man that we would have to acquire next season. Next season, we are going to have to get another rotational Big Man to play next to Murphy and Hibbert. My hope is that the 3rd Big Man that we have would be Foster, but I can possibly live with Darko as a possible replacement for a single season ( that could also be flipped as another Expiring Contract ) IF it meant moving Tinsley.

[DannyGranger]

This trade includes the two hardest peices to trade in the NBA. I know the talks on Z-Bo to Memphis have went down hill but what if a third team got involved and through in a younger guy to the Grizzlies. As a Pacer fan I'm not saying this really improves us talent wise but we at least move a couple of the bad character guys.

Indy trades: Tinsley, Rasho, Williams, Graham
Gets: Jaric, Darko, Chandler

Knicks trade: Z-Bo, Chandler
Gets: Tinsley, Rasho, Graham

Memphis trade: Jaric, Darko
Gets: Z-Bo, Williams

To me Memphis get a great deal. The Knicks can't really complain, other than the Tinsley haters. The Pacers lose talent but we start new era. The one thing that I would like to see is if there is some way that we could pull Warrick out of the deal. Maybe give them Chandler or Baston and McRoberts.

Pacers arent going to want Jaric's contract. They already have 3 PGs, they dont need another. Darko would be good though, I could live with him as a Pacers. Hes a decent shooter from inside the arch. Him and Murphy would be good together.

But like another posted said, Walsh isnt going to want anything to do with Tinsley or his contract (that irronically Walsh offered him).

[Marshall45]

Pacers would not want madman Darko. Once again, we are in the process of FIXING our image!

[Scoot McGroot]

What's wrong with Darko's image?


I think the Pacers would have to do a Tinsley for Jaric or Darko deal, but I'm not sure they'd have a lot of interest in adding in a swap of Rasho's expiring for the longer deals of Darko or Jaric.

[Dunthreevy]

I pray that Larry Bird doesn't read this stuff. I'd be happier paying Tinsley to sit at home than to pull of a trade like this.

[CableKC]

Pacers arent going to want Jaric's contract. They already have 3 PGs, they dont need another. Darko would be good though, I could live with him as a Pacers. Hes a decent shooter from inside the arch. Him and Murphy would be good together.

But like another posted said, Walsh isnt going to want anything to do with Tinsley or his contract (that irronically Walsh offered him).

There is no way that we are going to come out financially "ahead" in any deal involving Tinsley...at best...we can only hope that we get someone that has a similiar contract. Hoping for an Expiring Contract or one that expires in the 2009-2010 season is way too optimistic.

As for Jaric....he's a serviceable rotational Player that has some PG skills but is better suited to be a GF that I think would fit in an up-tempo offense.

IF acquiring Jaric+Darko for Tinsley+Rasho+Shawne still allows us to sign Granger AND Jack next season, then I would consider the following:

Pacers in - Darko+Marko
Pacers out - Tinsley+Rasho+Shawne

Knicks in - Tinsley+Rasho
Knicks out - Randolph+Chandler+$3 mil in Cash Considerations

Grizzlies in - Randolph+Shawne+Chandler+$3mil in Cash Considerations
Grizzlies out - Darko+Marko

If possible, I would extend this to include the Heat afterwards by swapping Darko for Haslem ( assuming that they are looking for some Frontcourt Depth at the Center spot ).

[CableKC]

Here is the breakdown of the trade from a Financial, Salary and Contract POV.

<< count55, since you're much better at this then I am, can you confirm the #s that I ran in this scenario? >>

Pacers Outgoing Players : Tinsley+Rasho+Shawne
Pacers Incoming Players : Marko+Darko

2008-2009 Outgoing/Incoming Salary

Pacers 2008-2009 Outgoing Salary :Tinlsey ( $6.75 mil ) + Rasho ( $8.4 mil ) + Shawne ( $1.57296 mil ) = $16.72 mil
Pacers 2008-2009 Incoming Salary : Marko ( $6.575 mil ) + Darko ( $7.02 mil )= $13.6 mil
Difference in 2008-2009 Salaries sent out and coming in : Pacers save $3.12 mil in 2008-2009 Salary

Overal impact of Guaranteed Contracts sent out and coming in

Pacers Total value of Guaranteed Contracts sent out : Tinlsey ( $21.6 mil for 3 seasons / Expiring after 2010-2011 season ) + Rasho ( $8.4 mil for 1 season / Expiring after 2008-2009 ) + Shawne ( $1.57296 mil for 1 season / Team Option for 2009-2010 ) = $31.57 mil
Pacers Total value of GUARANTEED Contracts coming in : Marko ( $21.3 mil for 3 seasons / Expiring after 2010-2011 season ) + Darko ( $14.56 mil for 2 season / Expiring after 2009-2010 ) = $35.86 mil
Difference in Guaranteed Contracts sent out and coming in : Pacers pay $4.29 mil more over the course of 3 seasons
Difference in Guaranteed Contracts sent out and coming in ( assuming that Shawne's Team Option is picked up ): Pacers pay $1.874 mil more over the course of 3 seasons


Total Salary Cap impact for 2008-2009

Current Salary Cap for 2008-2009 for 16 Players : $69.22 mil
Updated Salary Cap for 2008-2009 for 15 Players ( Plus Marko+Darko but Minus Tinsley+Rasho+Shawne ) - $66.09 mil

Expected Salary Cap impact for 2009-2010

Expected Salary Cap for 2009-2010 in Guaranteed Contracts for an 8 Player Roster of Brandon/Tinsley/Dunleavy/Hibbert/Shawne/Ford/Diener/Murphy : $44.48 mil ( assuming no other trades, that Tinsley or his Replacement Contract is still on the Books and that Shawne's has the only Team Option that is picked up )

Expected Salary Cap for 2009-2010 in Guaranteed Contracts for an 8 Player Roster of Brandon/Dunleavy/Hibbert/Ford/Diener/Murphy/Marko/Darko : $49.49 mil

Since, either way, we would not be under the Salary Cap enough to make a solid run at any real Top Tier FA in the 2009-2010 Offseason ( as pointed out by count55 IF we choose to retain the rights to resign Granger and Jack ).....if we were to sign Granger to a Contract starting at $13 mil with Jack starting at $5 mil ( both worst Case Scenarios )...we would have a 2009-2010 Salary cap of $67.5 mil for 10 Players after resigning Granger and Jack. Including the 2009-2010 1st round draft pick...we would still be in the position to sign some 2-3 more FAs to sit at the end of the bench.

A few things to consider in any moves that we make for the immediate future:

1 ) Whoever we trade Tinsley for, it will be for a Player that is likely have a comprable Salary/Contract....which IMHO would pretty much amount to a rotational player. I know that acquiring Jaric's isn't what we are hoping for since we already have 3 PGs....but I don't consider him a BallHandler like Ford is....his size, speed, quickness and skillset suggests that he is more of a Ballhandler in the mold of Dunleavy that plays at the GF position...basically another player on the court other then Ford/Jack that can bring up the ball and move the ball around if needed.

The only real concern that I would is how this move would affect Brandon's minutes in the near future.For the 2008-2009 season, regardless of who is on the roster, I don't anticipate that Brandon ( in his Rookie season ) will be averaging more then 10-15 minutes a game. However, starting in the 2009-2010 season, my concern is that there may not be enough minutes for him. We would have a SG/SF rotation of Granger/Dunleavy/Jack/Marko/Brandon where everyone that plays ahead of Brandon would be locked into long-term deals.

2 ) Starting in the 2009-2010 season, since the only Long-Term Frontcourt PF/C that we have are Murphy and Hibbert; we would have to look into acquiring some additional Frontcourt depth that can rotate into the PF/C positions. Darko ( from what I have read ) appears to be a "Poor Man's" version of Foster that is a "decent to solid" Low-Post Defender, can probably block a few more shots but can't pull down as many Offensive Rebounds nor has the Low-Post Offensive game that we are hoping for. Although the overwhelming preference is to acquire a PF that can score and defend the Low-Post, I doubt that we will be in the position to outright sign one. Although my 1st choice would ( obviously ) be to figure out a way to resign Foster or ( worst case scenario ) Rasho.....acquiring Darko could fill the role that Foster fills right now...primarily as a Backup Center that rebounds and defends the Post.

I know that Marko+Darko is not optimal....but considering that the proverbial "well" is drying up for potential PG/Tinsley suitors....if the option presented itself where we could move Tinsley while acquiring a somewhat decent Big Man beyond this season, then I would have to consider it since it would not adversely affect our ability to resigh Granger or Jack while allowing us to shore up our Frontcourt rotation for the 2009-2010 season.

[CableKC]

What's wrong with Darko's image?


I think the Pacers would have to do a Tinsley for Jaric or Darko deal, but I'm not sure they'd have a lot of interest in adding in a swap of Rasho's expiring for the longer deals of Darko or Jaric.

I think that he's referring to Darko's ill-advised Greece/Serbia Post-Game comments regarding killing the ref ( among other things ).