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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/w ... index.html

Assuming we will have options, we can be under the cap enough to sign a decent free agent. On the list (by Mart Burns) these are the free agents I think we could make a play for.

Marvin Williams, Hawks (2). The 6-foot-9 forward has not lived up to the hype that had him running neck and neck with Bogut for the No. 1 pick in the days leading up to the draft. But Williams has improved every season, he can shoot and he will get a chance to shine more now with Josh Childress having departed for Europe.

Charlie Villanueva, Bucks (7). The Rookie of the Year runner-up has shown himself to be a skilled scorer over the past three seasons in Toronto and Milwaukee, though his shot selection and defense could stand some improvement. If the 6-10 forward doesn't improve in those areas, a requirement under coach Scott Skiles, he could be set free by the Bucks next summer

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Hakim Warrick, Grizzlies (19). The slender Warrick is a bit overmatched defensively at power forward many nights, but he's an athletic slasher with a nice jumper who averaged double figures in scoring each of the past two years. He should get a chance to put up good numbers this year as one of Pau Gasol's replacements at the 4 spot.

Jarrett Jack, Pacers (22). The 6-3 combo guard was traded to the Pacers last summer after two years as a key reserve for the Blazers. Though not a pure point guard and a bit small for a shooting guard, he has the strength to bull his way to the basket, fight for rebounds and defend bigger guards

Channing Frye, Blazers (8). Decent big men are hard to find, and this sweet-shooting forward-center had a nice rookie campaign in New York before being traded to Portland the following season in the Zach Randolph deal. Now stuck behind LaMarcus Aldridge and Greg Oden, he could be a bargain pickup for a team seeking frontcourt depth.

Assuming Jack continues to get better , we could re-sign him at a decent rate, or not match . In order, here is how I would rank the list

1. Charlie Villanueva
2. Channing Frye
3. Hakim Warrick
4. Marvin Williams


I dont think any of these players wil get really big offers. Their current teams let them go restricted. I am so glad we signed Danny before the deadline. I would be happy with either Charlie or Frye.

What do you think?

I think we should go

Frye
CV4
Warrick

williams won't be allowed to leave imo.

I would be happy with any of the tree, provided its a decent contract. It will be interesting to see which player on the entire list becomes the best.

What about Gooden, and Wilcox?

We will not be under the cap next season. With Danny and Jeff's extensions, we will be at about $58mm before addressing Jack or anyone else. Capholds for Jack and the first rounder will put us over the (est) $61mm cap, so the only option we'd have for signing someone would be using the MLE. Using the full MLE would likely put us relatively close to the luxury tax, so it's somewhat unlikely, unless we make some kind of deal with Tinsley that would reduce his cap hit next year (which seemingly went out the window with the Denver deal).

Count,

I think your numbers are off my friend. With Daniels and Rasho and Jack isn't that about 16 Million or so right there?

They're not off. There is a difference between an expiring contract and actually having cap space. To have cap space, you have to be below the cap. The cap this year is $58.7mm, so 5% growth would put it at about $61.8mm. With the addition of Danny & Jeff's extensions, we'll be at about $57.8mm in guaranteed contracts. We'll have cap holds for our FA's (Jack, Rasho, McBob, Baston, Graham, and Daniels) totalling almost $35mm (until we renounce their rights, or re-sign them), for our 1st rounder of about $2mm, and for the MLE & LLE of around $7-8mm. So, for the purposes of the free agent market, we are over the cap, leaving us only the MLE or LLE to use.

Expiring contracts are very misleading. The Knicks, for example, have over $33mm in expiring contracts, but will not be able to play in the above MLE FA market because their remaining payroll will still be substantially above the cap next summer.

The Pacers really ought to re-sign both Jarrett Jack and Marquis Daniels.

Why? Because the mere thought of a Jack/Daniels backcourt intoxicates me.

With Jack/Daniels we'll always have a shot.

for our 1st rounder of about $2mm, and for the MLE & LLE of around $7-8mm. So, for the purposes of the free agent market, we are over the cap, leaving us only the MLE or LLE to use.

So the BEST scenerio would be about 7-8 Million to spend? That could get us anyone off the list

HicksvsKnicks08 wrote:

for our 1st rounder of about $2mm, and for the MLE & LLE of around $7-8mm. So, for the purposes of the free agent market, we are over the cap, leaving us only the MLE or LLE to use.

So the BEST scenerio would be about 7-8 Million to spend? That could get us anyone off the list

The BEST scenario would be about $6mm, or the full MLE. The $7-8mm was the holds for the MLE ($6) and the LLE ($1-2), which cannot be combined to sign a player.

What if we renounce the rights to Rasho, Jack, Daniels, McRobberts?

Im sorry man, I thought I was intelligent , but I remember hearing about the trade with Toronto at the time and they said about all this cap space we would have in 09. I know we resigned Foster and Granger, but I thought we were going to be like 9 Milion below the cap

$6 mil for the MLE.

That's it.

We were never going to have any practical space under the cap, unless we let everybody but Danny walk. Once we signed Foster to the extension, we were basically going to have to spend the rest of the open cap space on Granger.

We're actually in a better position now, because we don't have to renounce our rights to the FA's until the end of next summer. We can decide to keep them if we'd like, and we can look at potential MLE guys.

Truthfully, we should expect our next "major" acquisition to come either from next year's draft or by trading one or more of the expiring contracts with other assets at the deadline. Free Agency simply is not now, nor is it likely to ever be a significant avenue for the Pacers.

I agree, Indiana is simply not an overly attractive market to free agents, meaning we arent a serious player for most guys unless we overpay them, which is never a smart strategy to employ. Building through trades and the draft and the occasional minor free agent signing is how we are going to get back to elite status.

Warrick is playing pretty well for a contract.

I like Warrick too, another guy that I think would be a good fit if we dont resign Daniels is Jamrio Moon. The guy can jump out of the gym and could probably be had for fairly cheap, he is also good friends with TJ Ford.

Of the list....obviously we have to resign Jack.

As for our future rotational PF.....my list is as follows:

I would offer the full MLE to David Lee or Leon Powe.

If both were off the Market, I would offer about $4-5 mil per year deal to Frye, Joe Smith or CV ( in that order ).

joe smith the 33 year old pf?

I dont really like that list. David Lee is going to get more than the MLE, and I cant say I'd be too thrilled with giving Powe the entire MLE, dont think hes worth that. Frye does little for me, Joe Smith is decrepit, and we need a someone who can score inside, and Chaz Villanueva doesnt really score a lot inside.

cdash wrote:I dont really like that list. David Lee is going to get more than the MLE, and I cant say I'd be too thrilled with giving Powe the entire MLE, dont think hes worth that. Frye does little for me, Joe Smith is decrepit, and we need a someone who can score inside, and Chaz Villanueva doesnt really score a lot inside.

I didn't say that Lee would actually accept it...I just said that I would offer him the full MLE. I think that he's worth it and actually fits a need.

For Powe, IMHO...he's a much better scoring version of Lee with an actual offensive game....as for whether he is worth the full MLE......I think that he is.

For Joe Smith, I think that for a 2 year deal as a rotational Backup PF that would likely play 20+ minutes, he would do fairly well....despite being 33 years old. As for him being decrepid....he's averaged 9/6 for 22 mpg in the previous 2 seasons.

Same goes for Frye......8/6 averaging 22 mpg over the last 2 full seasons.

CV is the only one that I can agree with....I see him as a younger Baby Al that sill has some hops in his legs.

But the whole point that I was trying to point out is that we are not going to get a top tier PF next season....given the playing time for our likely frontcourt ( Murphy, Hibbert and Foster ) and the fact that we won't be able to spend more then the full MLE on anyone. To me...all of the players that I suggested that are players that can come in as a rotational Backup PF that would fill a need and can immediately play 20-24 mpg while providing some decent scoring. Unfortunately, we have to be realistic for our chances of acquiring the type of player that many of you want.

CableKC wrote:

cdash wrote:I dont really like that list. David Lee is going to get more than the MLE, and I cant say I'd be too thrilled with giving Powe the entire MLE, dont think hes worth that. Frye does little for me, Joe Smith is decrepit, and we need a someone who can score inside, and Chaz Villanueva doesnt really score a lot inside.

I didn't say that Lee would actually accept it...I just said that I would offer him the full MLE. I think that he's worth it and actually fits a need.

For Powe, IMHO...he's a much better scoring version of Lee with an actual offensive game....as for whether he is worth the full MLE......I think that he is.

For Joe Smith, I think that for a 2 year deal as a rotational Backup PF that would likely play 20+ minutes, he would do fairly well....despite being 33 years old. As for him being decrepid....he's averaged 9/6 for 22 mpg in the previous 2 seasons.

Same goes for Frye......8/6 averaging 22 mpg over the last 2 full seasons.

CV is the only one that I can agree with....I see him as a younger Baby Al that sill has some hops in his legs.

But the whole point that I was trying to point out is that we are not going to get a top tier PF next season....given the playing time for our likely frontcourt ( Murphy, Hibbert and Foster ) and the fact that we won't be able to spend more then the full MLE on anyone. To me...all of the players that I suggested that are players that can come in as a rotational Backup PF that would fill a need and can immediately play 20-24 mpg while providing some decent scoring. Unfortunately, we have to be realistic for our chances of acquiring the type of player that many of you want.

Lee has a pretty good offensive game actually. He is extremely efficient, his true shooting %'s are always really high. What's the point of tossing ideas around like this if you dont think they would sign for it?

There are plenty of guys who could fill a role like Powe's without paying them $6+ million a year. Some of the worst contracts in the NBA are when teams throw around their entire MLE. Ask the Kings and Beno Udrih, even though he did fill a need for them.

Joe Smith is old. He could help if we were contenders, but were not, so there's little incentive for him to come here.