Obie needs to be fired.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

C'mon now Larry, you've done a great job reassembling the team, now its time for Obie to go. Game after game he shows how bad of a coach he is. He falls in love with players and plays them more than he should, sometimes the team shuns Granger for 2 quarters, then tonight, we have 1 shot for the game, and he calls a play to try and shoot it over the best shot blocker in NBA history? This guy is a joke and is losing us too many games. He needs to go.

[HeyIt'sMe]

Dwight's blocking the hell out of the ball and all this year, but best shotblocker in history? That's stretching the truth just a little.

[APerna]

I little premature.

This team is still looking for a true identity. Most opponents are probably expecting us to go to Granger.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Dwight's blocking the hell out of the ball and all this year, but best shotblocker in history? That's stretching the truth just a little.

How so? There has never been a guy of his size, with his athleticism. How many players have blocked 10 shots in one night? How many have had the potential to do it every game? Even if he isn't the best, yet, it was still an awful decision.

Also, how is it premature? I said 5 games into last season he was an idiot, and he hasn't improved. A coach should not lose games, he does.

[APerna]

I do disagree with going to Rasho at the end of regulation, but Orlando is head-and-shoulders ahead of where we are at this point.

Jim O'Brien seems to have a nice relationship with the young guys, and that's what we need right now.

We aren't trying to win a championship...

[count55]

Yeah, this is nonsense.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I do disagree with going to Rasho at the end of regulation, but Orlando is head-and-shoulders ahead of where we are at this point.

Jim O'Brien seems to have a nice relationship with the young guys, and that's what we need right now.

We aren't trying to win a championship...

We should be trying to win games though. I truly believe Obie has lost us 3 games this year with his decisions. I can't remember ever thinking Carlisle lost us a game with a decision he made. I don't remember Isiah or Bird losing a game because of bad decisions. Coaches rarely lose games in the NBA, but Obie manages to do it on a regular basis. The guy doesn't change his game plans, even when getting smashed, he tends to let the players ignore Granger for long stretches when he is irrelevant because he doesn't touch the ball, he allowed Tinsley to shoot it 18 straight times without subbing him out last year, and he makes awful decisions, like the one we saw tonight on a last second play. In 2 seasons(so far this season anyway), he has not called 1 good last second play. We saw Daniels shoot a 3 at the buzzer the other night - to be fair, that wasn't the called play, but his didn't leave another option. He has no clue what he is doing.

[Scoot McGroot]

I do disagree with going to Rasho at the end of regulation, but Orlando is head-and-shoulders ahead of where we are at this point.

Jim O'Brien seems to have a nice relationship with the young guys, and that's what we need right now.

We aren't trying to win a championship...

We should be trying to win games though. I truly believe Obie has lost us 3 games this year with his decisions. I can't remember ever thinking Carlisle lost us a game with a decision he made. I don't remember Isiah or Bird losing a game because of bad decisions. Coaches rarely lose games in the NBA, but Obie manages to do it on a regular basis. The guy doesn't change his game plans, even when getting smashed, he tends to let the players ignore Granger for long stretches when he is irrelevant because he doesn't touch the ball, he allowed Tinsley to shoot it 18 straight times without subbing him out last year, and he makes awful decisions, like the one we saw tonight on a last second play. In 2 seasons(so far this season anyway), he has not called 1 good last second play. We saw Daniels shoot a 3 at the buzzer the other night - to be fair, that wasn't the called play, but his didn't leave another option. He has no clue what he is doing.

We fired Isiah precisely because everyone felt he was losing us the games. This is nothing new. However, we're also assuming that this team should be a .600 or .750 type team. It is not. We're probably about a .450 type team over the course of the season, and I think we're just showing that.

[MillerTime101]

Am I really seeing this thread? Coach has done a great job this season, this team is performing at a much higher level then I expected. Lets at least wait until we get Dunleavy back and play more then 10 games before we start these threads.

[Miller4ever]

How so? There has never been a guy of his size, with his athleticism. How many players have blocked 10 shots in one night? How many have had the potential to do it every game?

Wilt the Stilt, Bill frickin' Russell, the godfather of shot-swatting, a couple of random guys with obviously less sixze and talent than Dwight named Hakeem the Dream and the Admiral. There's also some dude named Dikembe Mutumbo, I heard he might've been pretty okay at blocking shots. I heard Kareem was decent. You're right, Dwight's current average of 4.0 and career average of 1.8 pale in comparison to Dikembe's 4.5 and 2.7 numbers, respectively. You are way off base on this one, and I do very much respect your opinion, but this claim shows that you haven't watched enough old-school basketball. And don't tell me that it was easier to swat shots back then. Dikembe had to fend off MJ, Shawn Kemp, Scottie Pippen, Dominique when they weren't teammates, Clyde Drexler, and later on Kobe, Shaq, AI, T-mac, our beloved Reggie.

Dwight Howard does not have the potential to block 10 shots every game consistently. NO ONE DOES. Shot blocking is a combination of timing, positioning, luck, and effort. When shots are easier to predict, like a last-second heave (or a breakaway lay-up from Reggie Miller in 2004), they're easier to block. Dwight is very good, I'll give you that. He is definitely something special, but to label him now as the best shot-blocker in the history of the game is both statistically incorrect, but also not a well-thought through argument.

As for your calling Obie out, is he the best coach around? No. But you have to know that the worst thing a team can do mid-season after the players have been training hard to learn a system that at the very least isn't stupid (we have passing happening, and we've been doing things right, I'd blame EXECUTION) to re-learn some other coaches system. Do you honestly think you can make better substitutions within the heat of the heat of the game? When we win, we praise Granger and TJ and Foster and Rasho and Marquis and even Roy Hibbert. We lose a game when a coach draws up a play that is meant to attack the inside, a sound strategy and the highest percentage possible, but fails due to the inborn athleticism of Dwight Howard, where anybody THAT CLOSE SHOULD TAKE A SHOT, NO MATTER WHAT when time is ticking down, and Obie gets flak because 41 logged minutes for Danny somehow means that he was "shunned" by the team like it was on purpose. You need to know that Danny took 20 shots, and he made 7. That's a 35% FG percentage.

Here's what it comes down to: The coach has to make a decision between the best player on the team, who's not doing so hot, or what he feels is the best chance at a victory. Danny wasn't doing so well throughout, and he never got his shooting rhythm quite right, although he did hit a key three late in the game. Look at his shot chart. I love the guy but he was missing 10-footers. He took 4 shots in each of the first three quarters and we went to him in the 4th, but he was 1-7. tell me that as a coach you still have 100% faith in a player who, as good as he is, is still young and developing.

Sure, I do look foward to the day that Obie steps down and the level of our team demands a higher level of coach. You may conveniently not remember Rick losing us games because of his bad decisions, but all the ones who were calling for his head on a plate could finger every single faulty late-game substitution or pulling of a "hot-hand" player or bad player-coach relationship issue he had. The point is, all NBA coaches make decisions based on what they think is right, and sometimes players fail to execute. Sometimes you want to grab an easy inside shot and you get Foster draining a three instead (I don't here you complaining at this point, yet) Sometimes you draw up a play for a player to take the shot and the screens aren't set right, and a pass isn't thrown with enough mustard and the play collapses and Rasho gets stuffed by Dwight Howard. Sometimes the favored players are closing the game correctly, and you get a victory against the defending world champs. Sometimes stuff just doesn't pan out and you've got Danny who you wanted to attempt the shots not keying in from 21, 19, 16, 5 feet away. Sometimes, you leave a player in to give them a second chance, and they right their ship. Sometimes, you have to coach somewhat of a lost cause like Jamaal Tinsley. Somehow, it's Obie's fault.

All I'm saying is, I know, the losses are tough. We've gone through a crazy fight that destroyed a franchise, and we've been through rebuilding, and we've had to watch and wince when Jamaal tweaks something or other, and JO gets a sore knee and is out half of the season, but changing coaches is NOT the answer, and I thought you knew better than to make excuses (we were up against the best shot blocker ever?) or to point fingers (obviously, Obie's the problem, not the poor execution).

Nothing's as clear cut as "Jim O'Brien is the reason we lose". The Pacers are a team, and everybody's trying their hardest to win, and I honestly believe that. Sometimes, a team just does better than you, and you have to accept that.

[Miller4ever]

I didn't mean to sound so angry. This isn't all at you, DGRx, just the overall coach-bashing that happens SOMETIMES without reason. I do respect you a lot, and I do agree with you a lot.

[cdash]

Yeah, this is a little ridiculous. I will say that watching these games pisses me off a great deal, but I dont think Obie needs to go. If we win less than 30 games this season, then I might feel differently. For now, hes fine.

[Kuq_e_Zi91]

I just feel like if we fired him, it would only take our franchise a step backwards. It seems like he's a players coach. He knows their weaknesses and he helps them understand how to get better. For example, each year we've seen Danny add something to his game. I think you can attribute some of that to Obie's coaching.

After finally looking like a real team out there and just starting to learn the system a little bit, I don't think firing the coach and getting a brand new system in here is the best idea...

Also, you have to think about what that says to the casual fan. They've seen Bird continuously say the franchise is moving in a new direction with O'Brien leading the way as our coach. Now you want to fire him 11 games into the season? I don't see that helping get more people in those seats.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I didn't mean to sound so angry. This isn't all at you, DGRx, just the overall coach-bashing that happens SOMETIMES without reason. I do respect you a lot, and I do agree with you a lot.

I hear ya man, its no problem, we do usually agree. Also, I know Mutumbo and the finger wave, frankly, the old school players probably had a tougher time blocking shots considering it was a C league back then. However, Dwight is what, 22? How old was Mutumbo during his career year or all the top blockers from the past? I guess its a stretch to say he is the best now, but I don't think its a stretch to say he will develop into the best. Also, by saying he has the potential to block 10 every game, I didn't mean he would do it often, but he does make that much of an impact.

As for firing Obie, I do agree its a step back right now - I believe we would have to do it at the end of the season. I'm surprised all of ya'll like him though. Someone said we are suppose to be a .400-.500 team. Does that make it okay to blow a 26 point lead since we were suppose to lose anyway? Every single game we have played this year has been winnable. Now, every game is winnable, but we have been close towards the 4th quarter every single game, where he has been out-coached.

Wins/losses aside, am I the only one who sees serious flaws in his coaching? We will never be anything other than a mediocre team with him at the helm. I agree, he is a good players coach, he really has our team playing hard every night which I love, but that doesn't excuse his awful decision making. Jack has been surprisingly good at SG some this year, but there have been a few games when hes been a nightmare there and completely screws up on the court, as evident by a few games when his +/- was no where near any other players. During these games, just watching them, you can see that every time he is on the court, the other team starts making runs, then hes off, and we claw back in. Obie keeps throwing him out at SG, even when it doesn't work. Obie goes into every game with a gameplan, and when it doesn't work, he sticks to it anyway.

This isn't something I'm just saying over 1 game, or 1 incident. I would think the regulars here would remember me saying the same thing last year. As long as Obie is the coach, we aren't going to be a competing for a Championship, as someone already said now, we aren't this year, but why not? We should always compete for a Championship, anything could happen, if we aren't doing that what are we playing for? Watching this guy coach just makes me cringe, I seriously thought at least a few people would agree with me, especially since those of you who don't I usually agree with on other topics haha.

[Miller4ever]

Phil Jackson also blows 20+ point leads. Just look at the NBA Finals, haha. And Dikembe was a rookie when he got 5.8 blocks per game in the playoffs.

I hate Jim O'Brien. I don't like shooting 30 treys a night. That's just ridiculous. That's something that he definitely does encourage. He's not a championship coach because he's not coaching any championship teams, which are put together by the front office.

[IndieRuso420]

I am not a fan of Obie either but Bird won't fire him until end of next year of end of year four (if there are no results). That is Bird's guy.

[Donerik]

Have you ever heard the saying, coach to your personnel?

So we all know the player we have, where would you like them to shoot from? I'll give you a hint It's not the low post. Troy Murphy, not a strong post, Jeff Foster? Hibbert is our only real option and he's a rook. Jim O'Brien took over a stagnant offense and made it exciting. Can anyone say they'd rather see the old Rick Carslyle pull it down walk it up style back? So we're stuck with Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy for ever because of their bad contracts? and who turned Mike Dunleavy into a boarderline allstar last year? He played his heart out for Jimmy.

Don't write this season off because we're missing a few close games and losing a few leads. We're missing last seasons plus/minus leader in Mike Dunleavy, Dun also got better as the season went on. Queezy is playing his heart out now but Dunleavy will fill the whole where Brandon Rush is right now and add the dynamic 3 point shooter we're missing right now. Danny is very good at the Three, but He's not Mike. They were a great tandem last year, and they will be again when Mike gets back to full strength. Might Brandon Rush someday offer the defense of Queezy, and the silky smooth offense of Mike? hopefully, but not yet.

So without last years most productive player, Jim O has coached us to 5-7 and seven, losing a few very close games? Get off his back. We're fun to watch although it's never fun to lose. The D is getting better and I think the next time we play Orlando we'll beat them, just a hunch.

[davitogreat]

I dont think Obie should be fired at all. I feel like he has actually done an excellent job even though there are just a little tweaks he has to fix. One problem i have is i feel like he is not fully utilizing Ford out there. Last year and the year before i watched some Raptors games and the way Ford ran the offense there was pretty fantastic. Sure he made some mistakes but he played so well. Toronto would always space the floor for him to drive and dish to his teamates or take the shot. The thing is i dont really see it here. Our lanes are always to congested. I also dont get why Ford always brings the ball up to the top of the key and passes it of to nesterovic, it seems like we are relying on Nesterovic to be our facilitator.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I dont think Obie should be fired at all. I feel like he has actually done an excellent job even though there are just a little tweaks he has to fix. One problem i have is i feel like he is not fully utilizing Ford out there. Last year and the year before i watched some Raptors games and the way Ford ran the offense there was pretty fantastic. Sure he made some mistakes but he played so well. Toronto would always space the floor for him to drive and dish to his teamates or take the shot. The thing is i dont really see it here. Our lanes are always to congested. I also dont get why Ford always brings the ball up to the top of the key and passes it of to nesterovic, it seems like we are relying on Nesterovic to be our facilitator.

We have had at least a 10 point lead in 10 of our 13 games this year. Down the stretch, Rush, Ford, and Foster were all making plays, he subbed them all out as the Mavs went on their run. Meh.

[writerman]

Dwight Howard - greatest shotblocker in NBA history?

Wilt Chamberlain? Bill Russell? (Prediction: next we'll get the "they only played against 6'5" white guys" line from him...)

(*Yawn*) another kid who thinks the world sprang into being the instant the doctor smacked his bottom...

Back to the original topic of this thread: this team is still kooking for its identity, as a previous poster said. And while Daniels has played well, they miss Dunleavy.