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36 points
9 rebounds
2 blocks
3 steals
2 assists
79% FG

Yep, good thing we traded JO


I , for one, love to see him do well




Where's TJ?

JO is really starting to get it together. He is becoming the heart and soul or our team.

yeah...before the injury he was getting there...putting together 15 and 13 games and 20 and 9 games and such...

but now he's been giving us the whole package...

loving it...

and tj is great, u guys are dumb if u give up on him now...JO also got injured and tj won at LEAST one game singlehandedly for u guys...like JO did.

this trade is definetely even, just ur coach is stupid and puts in jarret jack WAY too much.

cb4lif3 wrote:yeah...before the injury he was getting there...putting together 15 and 13 games and 20 and 9 games and such...

but now he's been giving us the whole package...

loving it...

and tj is great, u guys are dumb if u give up on him now...JO also got injured and tj won at LEAST one game singlehandedly for u guys...like JO did.

this trade is definetely even, just ur coach is stupid and puts in jarret jack WAY too much.

Only one idiotic person is giving up on him. The rest of us know better

HicksvsKnicks08 wrote:36 points
9 rebounds
2 blocks
3 steals
2 assists
79% FG

Yep, good thing we traded JO


I , for one, love to see him do well




Where's TJ?

Dude, relax. Jermaine O'Neal was a great Pacer and i don't think anyone will debate that. He had his injury problems but we can't fault him for that. It's a way of life. Life isn't always perfect. However, at his current state, we needed to get rid of him. It's very respectful IMO to trade a guy like O'Neal who doesn't have too many years left in the NBA. Let's face it, his injuries will sooner then later catch up to him. He got traded to a team who was considered a contender for the East. It was nice what the Pacers did and on the flip side, we got TJ Ford and Roy Hibbert. Hibbert was the main piece in the deal i think. The Pacers are much more fun to watch now with Ford then without him. And what good would O'Neal do in Indianapolis? He'd get his stats but miss the playoffs and rot. He got traded to a winning team with loads of talent for a chance to help them in the playoffs. Maybe you didn't realize, but we're a rebuilding team. We won't be in a force in the playoffs for atleast 3 seasons. Will O'Neal even play in 3 years?

And BTW, as great as he was in his one game, O'Neal has had his share of horrid games this season. And where's TJ? If the playoffs started today, both O'Neal and TJ would be watching them on TV.

Dude, relax.

I'm tryin man, but didnt you expect more from TJ?

HicksvsKnicks08 wrote:

Dude, relax.

I'm tryin man, but didnt you expect more from TJ?

No doubt i expected more from Ford. I think he's a bit too careless then i thought he was with the ball. However, i do think he's the best option we had for our team at our given time. We were not going to get a Chris Paul or Deron Williams. We needed excitment and someone quick to run the JOB system and Ford has done it pretty well. Does he make mistakes? Sure. But who doesn't on this team? Besides Granger. lol.

My point is, when our team is rebuild and ready to fight the Boston's, the Pistons, the Magic.... it won't be TJ Ford leading the way, like it wasn't going to be O'Neal. It's going to be Brandon Rush, Danny Granger, Mike Dunleavy, Roy Hibbert, and several other draft picks who are yet to come. And in this group, a PG that we will draft in 2009 or 2010.

I'm glad to see him healthy again. He needed a fresh start, and I'm glad we were able to get Rasho and Tj back for him. Yay.


And LOL @ Rush leading our team. He is not a leader. He did NOT lead that Kansas team. Even though he was the best player on that Kansas team, he does not have the mentality of a leader. He's very passive. He doesn't have a killer attitude..even Diener has more of a killer attitude than Rush.

TJ will be our leader with Granger in the future. It's foolish to discard him in favor of 2 unproven rookies, one very passive, another foul prone. Hibbert's rookie year reminds me of Harrison's. To discard TJ as part of our core is very foolish, especially when he is the same age as Granger, and 3 years younger than Dun-Dun. TJ is part of our core, part of our future, and not some poor draft choices. I don't see any good PG's that we can get. Jennings is too low, and has a bad image, and Rubio is a pipe dream.

darkflashfox wrote:I'm glad to see him healthy again. He needed a fresh start, and I'm glad we were able to get Rasho and Tj back for him. Yay.


And LOL @ Rush leading our team. He is not a leader. He did NOT lead that Kansas team. Even though he was the best player on that Kansas team, he does not have the mentality of a leader. He's very passive. He doesn't have a killer attitude..even Diener has more of a killer attitude than Rush.

TJ will be our leader with Granger in the future. It's foolish to discard him in favor of 2 unproven rookies, one very passive, another foul prone. Hibbert's rookie year reminds me of Harrison's. To discard TJ as part of our core is very foolish, especially when he is the same age as Granger, and 3 years younger than Dun-Dun. TJ is part of our core, part of our future, and not some poor draft choices. I don't see any good PG's that we can get. Jennings is too low, and has a bad image, and Rubio is a pipe dream.

YES! 100% agreed! I was waiting for someone else to say TJ Ford is definitely part of our core. I didn't wanna say it cuz people would think I'M just being biased. And I definitely agree that people are getting way too ahead of themselves in relation to Hibbert and Rush. It is way too early to tell how good Hibbert and Rush are going to be. Just because they show flashes of skill on some nights doesn't mean they are going to grow into a star player and in the long run have a major impact on this team.

darkflashfox wrote:I'm glad to see him healthy again. He needed a fresh start, and I'm glad we were able to get Rasho and Tj back for him. Yay.

I agree with you here, i am happy with the return we got for him.

And LOL @ Rush leading our team. He is not a leader. He did NOT lead that Kansas team. Even though he was the best player on that Kansas team, he does not have the mentality of a leader. He's very passive. He doesn't have a killer attitude..even Diener has more of a killer attitude than Rush.


TJ will be our leader with Granger in the future. It's foolish to discard him in favor of 2 unproven rookies, one very passive, another foul prone. Hibbert's rookie year reminds me of Harrison's. To discard TJ as part of our core is very foolish, especially when he is the same age as Granger, and 3 years younger than Dun-Dun. TJ is part of our core, part of our future, and not some poor draft choices. I don't see any good PG's that we can get. Jennings is too low, and has a bad image, and Rubio is a pipe dream.

Dude RUSH is a ROOKIE. And Hibbert's rookie year reminds you of.... almost ANY ROOKIE big man. Look at Greg Oden. #1 overall pick. He's struggling at many areas this season too. All the big man from the draft struggle. It takes time for a big man to develop those skills. As for Rush, he's awesome defensively even though it's hard to see in the open eye because he's a rookie and inexperienced so he gets beat by 10 year vets from time to time. But his offensive stats are pretty good. In fact, they are very similar if not slightly better to those of Danny Granger's first year stats. And he turned out pretty good. Rush's BIG issue right now are easy fixes. Consistent shooting. Driving in. Early in the season, he drove without care and missed layups and turned the ball over. Because he learned the tough way of NBA defenders. Now he doesn't drive in as much. He'll learn how to and when he does, not only will his points go up with buckets, but also he'll go to the line and for him, a FA really is pretty much a free point. And shooting..... it takes a while for a player to learn to shoot the ball with care in the NBA. Rush definitely has all-star games in his future. There is no doubt in my mind.

Hibbert needs to work on his power. He seems scared down low. And he takes stupid fouls. A lot of them. But he's a smart player. We all knew it. Georgetown said so. All the experts said so. Larry Bird and our front office were wow'd by his basketball IQ and smarts. If you think he won't ever learn to play with the men, then i think you're wrong. If Hibbert didn't develop any aspect of his game but stayed out of foul trouble and started to hit his layups and easy dunk oppertunities, we wouldn't be talking about any of this with Hibbert. And still, he has a lot to develop. Hibbert could become a star in this league and even though he does struggle A LOT at times with his foul trouble and missing those easy shots, i think given a full season and then a full off-season will do him wonders.

I am a big believer in acquiring highly drafted one guards, that have for one reason or another disappointed because the expectations were always so high. Chauncey Billups and Devin Harris are prime examples of highly talented leaders that never got a chance to do so. When given a fresh start with lowered expectations they validated their draft status. Others on the brink that could do the same might be Conley and Felton.

What I like about TJ is his ability to penetrate and dish, under control. His speed and athleticism are off the charts too, which effects his ability to be a damn good rebounder. TJ has all the tools to be great, it's all in his mind now. If he is weak mentally, than he'll only be compared to a prick-tease.

Oh yeah, good for JO. I remember when his medical conditions had me concerned, until he'd drop 35 and 18, then you'd think his injuries were being overstated. Regardless of it all, as long as he plays, you know you've got a great defender in the blocks.

I'm glad to see Jermaine do well. I wish him nothing but the best, as long as it's not against the Pacers. Is Jermaine far from done? Hardly, but he isn't the same player that he was a few seasons ago, that much is for sure. He's still a pretty darn good big man; however, especially considering the shortage of quality big men in the NBA. Would I do over the trade if I could? No, I'm happy with the trade even after JO's big showing. One game does not change that. I think the NBA has turned into a guard's league, and it's nice to know that for once, the Pacers finally have some speed and athleticism in the position, and a lot of it is because of TJ Ford. I also think Hibbert has looked pretty good when given his chances, although he's prone to mistakes and bad calls just like any other rookie.

Conley as good player? 8.3 pts 3.5 asts, in 26 minutes of play. That's atricious. Most people expected him to make a great leap this year, are you kidding me? This guy is horrible right now. He's playing worse than he was in his rookie year, and most people are extremely disappointed in his play. TJ is a top 10 point guard in the league. Most teams would kill to have him. He is top 4 in speed, and to say that we won't be building around him and that he is not a good point guard is a horrible statement. It would be foolish to dismiss him as our future, especially for some bad PG (conley), or Felton (good passer, poor shooter, does not fit our offense of a shooting, slashing pg. Felton actually reminds me of Tins without the baggage)

Harris actually had an amazing PER as a rookie, and was a very good PG with the Mavs. Very few people thought the trade as good, and knew that Harris would be better. Billups was injured early in his career and was behind Terrell Brandon for a while (labeled the best pg of 1997 so take that as you will, look at his career stats).

Interesting that you don't label some busts (Telfair, Acie Law) as players you want.



As for Rush, let's look at the season splits. He's averaging a bit below what Danny averages in his rookie year in starts (based off of a non-skewed data set), and is doing so on a much worse team. Danny, getting his points under Rick's offense (good god), and doing so with a strong cast around him, is extremely more impressive than the run and gun style of O Brien that inflates stats. His shooting is horrible, and yes, he is a good defender, but Luc Richard is a good defender, and is putting up just as good numbers as Rush. And yet Luc Richard was a 2nd round pick.

Hibbert has a lot to learn. However, his size and a lack of speed is a big concern. His speed and agility need to be worked on, this is different than Oden, who has those already, he just needs more conditioning, while Hibbert seems to be conditioned decently. Hibbert will be a great prospect, is a good rookie, is extremely young, however, issues come up with our style of offense. Hibbert has shown to be a clutch player, is extremely tough, and I do not disagree that he has star potential. And if you look at the splits with Harrison, there are a lot of similarities, but Hibbert has much more BBIQ so he can improve.

In short, TJ is a part of a core, he is a great player and most teams would kill to have him as prospect PG, he's the same age as Granger, and he is the best fit we can get for our team. To hate on TJ in our future is absurd.

I think he was saying Conley could be on the brink of being the next Billups. Also, I wouldn't label Law as a bust yet, it's only his 2nd season...

It's way too early to call Conley a bust. He had one year of college, it's not like he was exactly polished coming out of OSU.

You're right chatard5. I am merely saying that it is always good to buy low on highly rated point guards that haven't yet produced. Trading the fourth highest salary in the league for two decent centers, one expiring, and a talented playmaker qualifies. We really have nothing to lose because of how much we've already gained by ridding ourselves of JO.

Hibbert is starting to come on. He got 17 quick points the other night against Memphis, and turned around against the Hornets and Tyson Chandler and pumped in 19 points in about 20 minutes of play. You put his points with Rasho and we've been getting between 25-30 points a game from or center positon in recent games.

chatard5 wrote:I think he was saying Conley could be on the brink of being the next Billups. Also, I wouldn't label Law as a bust yet, it's only his 2nd season...

Agreed. Conley still has a load of potential and i think to get a player of that talent, we'd need to pay a lot. I don't think Memphis has or even is close to giving up on him. And Law isn't a bust either. Atlanta isn't exactly the best place for a point guard like Law right now, they are a very spread out team and they all pass the ball very well so it hurts his stats. Also, being stuck behind Mike Bibby plays a big part. I do think Law will be a pretty good player in this league, better then Conley IMO, although i think both will be solid pros.

it won't be TJ Ford leading the way

Granger33,

That sucks then man, because Ford was supposed to be the key to the trade


Has anyone else watched Augustine play lately? I remember when jay Bilas wsa on ESPN draft night and he mentioned that Augustine will be a better PG than Ford. I am starting to believe that. Yes he is a rookie but his scoring and assit totals are better than Fords. It so ironic that everyone thought wwe would draft this guy. In hindsgiht I wish we would have traded O'Neal for Bynum and then drafted Augustine

Anyone else think Augustine might be btetter than Ford?


ps sorry to the poster screen name Ford is G, you probably hate that, lol

Augustine is not better than Ford. That's pretty obscene. Also, let us not forget that at 9, we would have not been able to draft DJ. As of right now, TJ has done everything better than Augustin except shoot the 3. DJ right now has the benefit of playing the 1-2 as a combo, is playing behind Felton and had people like Richardson, Okafor, and Wallace, which would help his stats. He also had a better team to play on, and right now has better people to learn from. Throw him on to a bad team and he would struggle.

I do not believe we were offered Bynum. I'm pretty ready to say that with 100% confidence, we were not offered him, and that even if we were, I would not have taken him.