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Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility"

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Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#1 » by chatard5 » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:44 pm

The Pacers fielded, and made, several calls prior to Thursday's trade deadline, but simply didn't find a deal they felt was worth making official.

"We weren't willing to take on long-term deals with players who weren't going to be part of our core group," general manager David Morway said. ". . . We weren't going to do anything to reduce our cap flexibility, which was something we worked really hard to get and wanted to retain. If we could have added a draft pick, we would have, but teams are holding on to them for now."



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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#2 » by chatard5 » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:45 pm

Are they talking about cap flexibility in 2011 or 2012? This doesn't make sense to me...
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#3 » by DC2 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:00 am

It means we didn't want to make a deal if it meant taking on more years of contracts. For instance, we didn't want to trade Rasho or Daniels for a player with 2-3 years left on their deals, or trade Tinsley for an even worse contract.
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#4 » by SharoneWright » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:11 am

Sounds a lot like the Republicans in congress....

Don't throw your money away and mortgage the future even if it feels right now....
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#5 » by croz24 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:12 am

because free agents are just lining up to join this team :roll:
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#6 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:16 am

SharoneWright wrote:Sounds a lot like the Republicans in congress....

Don't throw your money away and mortgage the future even if it feels right now....

Yea...if they were Democrats we could see Bird asking other teams to pay our players.
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#7 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:18 am

On a side note, I love how they said they'd be willing to take on more years, if it meant getting a 1st round pick. This shows me we are looking like a team that will be buyers in a sellers market.
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#8 » by chatard5 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:55 am

Dunleavy17 wrote:It means we didn't want to make a deal if it meant taking on more years of contracts. For instance, we didn't want to trade Rasho or Daniels for a player with 2-3 years left on their deals, or trade Tinsley for an even worse contract.


I know what it means, it just doesn't make sense. We have Dunleavy and Murphy under contract for 3 more years, we don't have cap flexibility. I agree with not trading Tinsley for a 4 year contract if the player comes off the bench, we it's not like we have cap flexibility since we didn't make any moves.

And as someone else said, what big player wants to sign here? I guess just re-signing draft picks.

And please, please, pleeeeeaaaaaase don't bring any politics to threads. Politics are everywhere and I have already left a few boards b/c it would get out of control (not basketball, this is actually the only place I've been!). Let's all just disagree with each other and talk about why Jeff Foster has more value than Nate Robinson.

Don't get me wrong, I like talking/debating politics. But I don't like doing it on a daily basis. Too much talk and stress that doesn't go anywhere. Oh God if I don't stop typing like this I am going to make it worse. Think Danny Granger, think Danny Granger. Oh crap, he's hurt. Think Conan O'Brien, think Conan O'Brien. Oh crap, he's done with Late Night and won't be on the Tonight Show for 3 months. Think tomorrow's game thread tradition part, think tomorrow's game thread tradition part. Oh crap, I started thinking too much about the tradition part.
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#9 » by Gremz » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:03 am

If it were solely about cap flexibility, and considering the Cavs did nothing also, we should have entertained a Quis + Rasho + 2nd for Szczerbiak + 1st kind of deal.
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#10 » by count55 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:41 am

Cap flexibility really refers to the ability to make decisions, signings, and trades, but remain under the luxury tax threshold, which is a de facto hard cap for the Pacers and many other franchises.

The Pacers have $58mm in contracts for next year, but that is only for 9 players. The Tax threshold is projected at about $69.4mm, so we only have about $11mm to add 6 players to our roster. It will drop to around $9mm after we sign our 1st round pick. It is this money that they are talking about.

Essentially, trading away the expiring contracts would have used that buffer. They are saying they would have done it if it had made long term sense.

Take the Chandler rumors. Had we traded a package exclusively made up of expirings (Rasho, Daniels, etc), that would have added over $12mm to our salary next year, but we still would have only had 10 players or so. Therefore, we would be over the luxury tax for each of the next two years, but would have only added Tyson Chandler.

Does anybody think adding Tyson Chandler to this team will make us champions?

It would have been a crushing financial move, and I think it would have likely precipitated the end of the Simons ownership of the Pacers, and probably the Pacers in Indiana.

This is why the Pacers were almost certainly including one of their longer contracts (Foster, Tinsley, Dunleavy) in the offer, while New Orleans was insisting on all expirings.

Two summers ago, the Pacers were forced to sign Stephen Graham, Andre Owens, Kareem Rush, and Travis Diener to fill out their roster and still eke in below the threshold. They are trying to avoid having to make a quarter or more of their roster be minimum level players. They are hoping to keep open the option to re-sign Jack or to spend all or part of the MLE on a free agent.

Also, they're trying to keep the franchise financially viable during horrible economic times and a period of declining revenue for the team. Most of the moves available to them would have brought only marginal to moderate improvement on the court, but added millions of dollars of cost.

The reason that they're open to draft picks is because they are the cheapest way to add talent. The Pacers have four players on rookie contracts: Danny Granger, Jarrett Jack, Brandon Rush, and Roy Hibbert. Combined, they will make about $7.6mm this season, or, put another way, those four players will make $0.4mm less than TJ Ford, $0.8 less than Rasho, $1.4mm less than Junior, and $2.5mm less than T-Murda.

While the Pacers still have a very long way to go, what Bird and Morway have done since last summer is very, very impressive. In the JO deal alone, they reduced next season's salaries by $13mm, which gave them the money to sign Danny to an extension. They also added Roy Hibbert.

Yes, it is frustrating that there was no tangible movement at the deadline. However, looking at the players available, and netting the improvements they may have brought against the financial burdens and restrictions they were certain to bring, the Pacers FO handled the trade deadline very well. It is regrettable that they could not have dumped Tinsley, but that is a herculean task in an of itself.
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#11 » by Boneman2 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:20 am

Expiring contracts are valuable because they will reduce our payroll like Count55 said. Sure I would've liked seeing some movement, but then again, our team is in a much better position than they were before the JO trade. As for Dunleavy and Murphy, it's not exactly a bad thing that both actually understand the game and are quite effective. By the time Larry understands what direction to take our franchise both will be on the verge of expiring.

Again, if we're prudent with our money until they expire, a potential f/a may not have a choice if he wants to get paid. We'll be one of the few teams with enough cap-space to get it done. Unless the Knicks or Lakers are involved, they don't seem mind the Luxury-Tax.
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#12 » by dc » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:16 am

chatard5 wrote:Are they talking about cap flexibility in 2011 or 2012? This doesn't make sense to me...



In this case, the Pacers saying they want to "keep cap flexibility" is basically another way of saying "we want to avoid the luxury tax."

It's just a more fan friendly way of saying it.
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#13 » by chatard5 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:07 pm

That's what I was thinking was luxury tax instead of cap flexibility. I don't get why he didn't say that, though, instead of cap flexibility. When I hear cap flexibility I think it is different than going over the luxury tax.
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#14 » by basketballwacko2 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:40 pm

Despite the fact that the Simons are Billionaire they cannot continue to lose money on the team. If we traded Rasho and wound up over the lux tax by $6 millon next yr that with the tax of $6 million and the loss of the the rebate would surely put the team in a position of losing money.

Does anyone think that we might be able to move JT to Dallas in the off season. kidd is expiring and they really don't have another guy at PG. Will they be bringing Kidd back? Would they take JT for jerry Stackhouse? Stack has a partly guaranteed deal for next yr. I'd give the Mavs a #2 with JT to get Stack and then just cut him, and pay the $2 million which is guaranteed. I guess the question is does Carlisle want to have JT on his team again.
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#15 » by basketballwacko2 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:43 pm

I think the only way we could have taken Chandler in trade would have to have been for a package including Murphy with JT for Chandler and Antonio Daniels.
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Re: Pacers didn't want to give up "Cap Flexibility" 

Post#16 » by chatard5 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:04 pm

If I was a billionaire owner I still wouldn't want to pay $6million in lux tax, but lux tax is different than cap flexibility. If you are close to the lux tax you aren't going to have any cap flexibility.

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