The reality of our team

[Dunthreevy]

I was gonna post this in the Pacesetter thread but I figured it might be a good conversation piece. M4E said this in the Ps/Mavs Pacesetter thread...

I also hate to say this, but Jeff Foster is costing us games.

Why hate to say it? It's the truth. Jeff has been a shell of his former self for a good majority of this season. He's become about as foul-prone as Roy, his production is slipping, he's turning the ball over A LOT, and his body just can't hold up anymore. I love Jeff for what he's done for our organization, but sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. I think that's the one thing that I get irritated with around here sometimes, is the undying homerism that some people have towards certain players. Not to say that's what you're exhibiting, just pointing out that some people on here couldn't shoot it straight about our team if you paid them to. I've become a huge fan of Brandon Rush. He has had monumental struggles at times this season, and he has shown flashes of being a very good wing for us at times as well. The thing is, I will willingly say that sometimes Rush stinks it up and has no business on the court. I'm not going to make excuses for him because in the end, it's the players' job to produce while they're out there. Sure JOB could be more consistent with his line-ups, sure he could draw up better plays to close out games at times, but in the end it's the players who are out there performing. There's no need to let sentimental "homerish" feelings about our team or our players, take over instead of logic or reason. If a player is playing like absolute garbage, they're just playing like garbage. No need to make excuses or pretend that what you're seeing isn't really happening.

DISCLAIMER:

This thread was in no way an indictment of M4E, and I do not think that this member is a complete homer. I actually think M4E is one of the better members of the board here and I enjoy reading his blurbs about the Ps. This thread was made solely to start conversation about a problem that I think plagues this (and most other team's) boards.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Theres a huge difference between being loyal and being a homer. I don't think anyone here would argue that Jeff has been good this year, because he really hasn't been, at the same time, the fans want to be loyal to players who have put it all on the table for us for their entire careers. I'm torn on the subject, on one hand, I want Jeff to be a Pacer the rest of his career, on the other, if we coulda gotten the Bobcats pick for him, that would have been a huge steal. This will probably be a popular discussion on the board the next few seasons as its obvious Foster just can't produce like he used to, but at the same time, he will still be on the court.

[Dunthreevy]

I hope it didn't seem like I was specifically targeting Jeff, although I can see how some might see it that way. I was really more so talking about how some fans just can't accept facts sometimes and try to argue against reality, based on the fact that they can't quite cure themselves of the homeritis (I just realized you can invent several words based around homer).

[Miller4ever]

DISCLAIMER:

This thread was in no way an indictment of M4E, and I do not think that this member is a complete homer. I actually think M4E is one of the better members of the board here and I enjoy reading his blurbs about the Ps. This thread was made solely to start conversation about a problem that I think plagues this (and most other team's) boards.

4523 day ban!

But seriously, about the subject, I think that there is a VERY fine line between homer and fan. Naturally, there's going to be fan bias towards the positive when it comes to the team, and for the most part people around here have different homeristic qualities, some more than others. Off the top of my head, I have man-love for Travis Diener, and TJFIG...well, you know.

The fact that it hurts to say the truth and the fact that you ARE admitting the truth, I think is the mark of a realistic FAN, which is different from the homer. And sometimes, homers are able to disguise themselves well. Sometimes, they are blatantly homeristic. Sometimes, you know a player personally, or see a part of yourself in a player, a coach, a team. Obviously, you're going to hope for the best for that player.

It's also interesting that you brought up the whole O'Brien draws up plays, players don't execute. Remember that NY game where Obie had something drawn up, and Jeff Foster threw a pick (it looked like the spirit of Rex Grossman possessed him for that throw). Also, 75% of late-game shots?

The reason I think that Jeff Foster should stay in the locker room of the Pacers rather than get traded is because I think he's worth it PURELY based on his personality and locker room affect. Even if he is on the inactive list, he's the kind of guy who will still give his ALL even in practice, and that makes our team better. Jeff Foster is unique because even if he isn't on the floor, he's still helping the Pacers.

[Sparhawk]

I agree with Miller4Ever. While Foster hasn't been playing like his old self, he's the kind of veteran leadership that our young players should be around. He'll root from the bench and he hustles non-stop. That's the kind of player that Rush and Hibbert should be looking up to and emulate. Not necessarily learn from, but just to have that kind of class that fans will gravitate to and become a homer for. heh, homer.

[bballpacen]

With where this team is at currently, if I can get value in the form of a mid 1st for Jeff, then I have to do it... Jeff is a shell of himself, and if I can pick up a mid 1st, or a youngster with some upside, then I do it for the future hopes of the Pacers... I like Jeff, and everything that he has done for this franchise, but this is a business, and you have to make decisions based upon improvement, not necessarily loyalty...

[Charcoal Filtered]

Ask Troy Murphy how much he likes Jeff being around. Jeff's foul total is about the same as last year and his turnover rate is up .5 per game. While his rebounding totals are down 2 a game in the same amount of minutes, Troy's are up 4 a game. Coincidence? Watch how many times a game it is Jeff boxing out the opposition while someone else gets the rebound for us (many times Murph).

While I hated Ronnie for his antics, you had to love him for the toughness he brought to the team. Jeff is one of the few guys that does the same thing to this team. I would much rather have that than a late first rounder.

BTW, bballpacen, I wanted Ike to work out here just as much anyone. However, his future is probably overseas.

[APerna]

I agree with Charcoal. Jeff's numbers might be down, but he has helped Troy along tremendously and he's a great presence. He's not a guy looking to grab boards, but he has great awareness in terms of setting other players up to grab one.

He's also EXTREMELY tough and never takes a play off, also like Char said, something we lack. We could probably get more talented by trading Foster for a 1st rounder (something I think a number of teams would agree to), but we'd definitely be a worse TEAM.