Match Jack and trade Ford?

[jowglenn]

Regarding Jack, if we could trade Ford to save some salary and get a backup PG, would we then match Jack? We could match Jack and then trade Ford.

My bet is that Bird is tearing up the phone lines seeing if anyone has interest in Ford. Jack's contract is not bad, it's just bad timing for the Pacers given the current salary situation and the 2010/2011 season thingy.

On the trade board, I have some Lakers fans interested in Ford for Farmar/Vujacic. This saves a bit of money this year, and if we turn down Farmar's QO next year, gives us enough room to keep Jack.

Are there any other ideas out there, where we could move Ford for a backup PG and salary relief so we can keep Jack?

[joeshmoe]

On the trade board, I have some Lakers fans interested in Ford for Farmar/Vujacic. This saves a bit of money this year, and if we turn down Farmar's QO next year, gives us enough room to keep Jack.

I like Jack. But he is what he is, and that is not a starting point guard.

[PR07]

I don't know. I think at this time. I'd rather have Ford for 2 years, compared to Jack for 4.

[grewich]

I don't know. I think at this time. I'd rather have Ford for 2 years, compared to Jack for 4.

i completely agree. i dont want to over pay for a 'role player'. isnt that kinda what happened to Murphy & Dunleavey?

[DannyGranger]

I wouldnt touch Sasha's contract. Its horrible

[Scoot McGroot]

I wouldnt touch Sasha's contract. Its horrible

It's no longer than Ford's...


I'd do a Ford for Farmar/Vujacic deal, though I'd really ask the Lakers for Adam Morrison instead of Vujacic, mostly due to his ability to be let go after 2009, thus shaving around $5.5 million off of Ford's salary for next season, if not more by not re-signing Jordan Farmar. Sure, Morrison costs around $300 grand more than Vujacic this year, but I'd rather have an expiring than either.


There were rumors that Bird really liked Farmar a few years back, and I think he'd make a solid PG outside of the triangle offense. Vujacic would be solid depth on the wings until Dunleavy came back, and would help push Dunleavy and Jones in practice for minutes. Morrison would be, well, an expiring, and would be given a chance to show something.

Though Ford is the only starter quality PG we have/would have in this deal (unless it allows us to match the offer to Jack), I'd still move him for the young PG in Jordan Farmar. I'd still then look to sign an Anthony Carter/Kevin Ollie type veteran PG, but I'd go from there.

Either way, we keep our 2011 push alive, and get a young PG in the meantime. If we can match the offer for Jack after this deal, all the better.

[fienX420]

I think that would be the ideal situation - trade Ford, keep Jack. I would much rather have Jack for 4 years at a bargain price than overpay Ford for 2 more years. If we let Jack go and keep Ford, we have to hope that TJ really breaks out or start all over again at PG. Jack would be an awesome bridge to get us to the point where we acquire a great young PG prospect.

[joeshmoe]

If we let Jack go and keep Ford, we have to hope that TJ really breaks out or start all over again at PG.

For TJ to have a break out year, all we have to do is fire O'brien. Ford's numbers were way down last year simply because of O'brien's system. Without O'brien, TJ averages 16 and 8 easy...

...a better trade for O'brien's system than trading for Farmar would be TJ for Fisher, Bibby, or Calderon. Neither Ford nor Jack are a great fit for O'brien's system. TJ's and Jack's (to a lesser extent) ability to break down a defense is largely wasted due to O'brien's desire to have the point guard give up the ball early in the shot clock instead of trying to break down defenses and make plays. He needs a guy like Bibby, Fisher, or Calderon who's value comes from their ability to knock down the 3 late in the shot clock.

[PaceWalker]

My gut feeling thinks T.J. will do much better this year if he stays with the Pacers. I definitely don't want the Pacers to pick up the QO on Jack due to financial reasons. Ford's mid-range floater is very clutch at the end of games (i.e. Cavs win was awesome). You can quote me on T.J. being good this year.

[tinker3284]

I don't know. I think at this time. I'd rather have Ford for 2 years, compared to Jack for 4.

i completely agree. i dont want to over pay for a 'role player'. isnt that kinda what happened to Murphy & Dunleavey?

you guy's are crazy about t.j. ford get ride him and bring back jack,because jack out played him the last month of the season so trade off ford he no good for the pacer's

[joeshmoe]

I don't know. I think at this time. I'd rather have Ford for 2 years, compared to Jack for 4.

i completely agree. i dont want to over pay for a 'role player'. isnt that kinda what happened to Murphy & Dunleavey?

you guy's are crazy about t.j. ford get ride him and bring back jack,because jack out played him the last month of the season so trade off ford he no good for the pacer's

I'm okay with trading ford and signing Jack. We just have to get a starting pg in return b/c Jack is not a starting caliber pg. But it is probably better not to resign Jack even if we did trade Ford because, like ford, he is not a good fit in O'brien's offense.

Of course, if it were up to me, I would fire O'brien and keep both ford and Jack....but I guess that is a little off topic. Ford and Jack would be a solid 1st and 2nd pg in a more traditional offense.

[Boneman2]

I will say this about Ford, even though JJ finished strong, Ford started the season on fire. Quite a few posters, on the General Board, listed TJ as a reserve all-star 20 or so games into last season. If TJ doesn't hit a wall like last season, he'll run this team very effectively.

It sure wouldn't hurt if he'd toughen up some, especially mentally because the tools are definitely there. Not to dog JJ, but he doesn't possess the vision needed to be a reliable starter. Tinsley has rediculous vision, although inferior, TJ has that same type of natural instinct. Jim needs to make sure TJ understands he is a distributor.

Jarrett Jack reminds me of a former Pacer, Haywoode Workman. Even though Workman inspired the fans, at no point did I want him as our starter.

If we would have selected a pg in the draft, it would've made a lot of sense to move TJ and let JJ groom the rookie. But with the way things stand now, TJ is the better option.

[chatard5]

If we let Jack go and keep Ford, we have to hope that TJ really breaks out or start all over again at PG.

For TJ to have a break out year, all we have to do is fire O'brien. Ford's numbers were way down last year simply because of O'brien's system. Without O'brien, TJ averages 16 and 8 easy...

...a better trade for O'brien's system than trading for Farmar would be TJ for Fisher, Bibby, or Calderon. Neither Ford nor Jack are a great fit for O'brien's system. TJ's and Jack's (to a lesser extent) ability to break down a defense is largely wasted due to O'brien's desire to have the point guard give up the ball early in the shot clock instead of trying to break down defenses and make plays. He needs a guy like Bibby, Fisher, or Calderon who's value comes from their ability to knock down the 3 late in the shot clock.

An uptempo system hurts TJ? I don't think that's the case. He scored a lot of points, towards the end of the year, when we were out of the game and the other teams reserves were in. TJ would run by and make a lay-up. It'd be nice if he could do it against starters that were trying when the game wasn't over. But he had quite a few games where he scored 12 points or so in the 4th quarter when we would be down by 16 and have no chance of coming back. Some people said it was him not giving up. While I hope that is the case, I just think it was him stuffing his stat sheet when he knew the other team would give him lay-ups.

I don't know what I want to do anymore. I don't think TJ is the PG for us, I do know that. But I don't know if Jack is, either. I am thinking we get a guy for a few years that is a good PG--like an Andre Miller or something. I would do a sign-and-trade and give them Ford for Miller. I would just want Miller to have a 3-year deal or so and give him the minimum we could give (the 15% less or whatever). Or else add someone in and taking back an expiring would work, too.

[cdash]

Neither Ford nor Jack is the long-term solution at PG for us. That much I know.

They put up similar numbers, both of them have questionable decision making ability. The difference? TJ is only under contract for the next two years, and he likely will want to play big to get another contract he doesn't deserve, so he gets my vote. I don't really want to pay Jack for 4 years. I just don't think he's part of our future core.

[Indy4Life]

While I like Jack. I think TJ is the better fit to our offense as a true point guard. He is a better ball handler, better passer, better vision and can get up and down the court with the best of the pgs in the league.

I hope he matures in the offense in year two and we see how talented this kid can be.

I want Jack back for his versatility at the 1 and 2, not to be a starting point guard.

[Crossova21]

I think Ford will do better next year once he learns the system...Dunleavy and Murph weren't very good when they got here either.

[joeshmoe]

I will say this about Ford, even though JJ finished strong, Ford started the season on fire. Quite a few posters, on the General Board, listed TJ as a reserve all-star 20 or so games into last season. If TJ doesn't hit a wall like last season, he'll run this team very effectively.

My theory about the sudden drop off in production was that O'brien was trying to change how TJ played to "better" fit into O'brien's system. TJ was playing like he has played his whole carear early in the season. He is a pg that needs the ball to create, and he was given more leeway early in the season to control the ball and make plays.

As the season progressed there seemed to be a tug of war going on between O'brien and Ford. O'brien insisted Ford give the ball up immediately upon dribbling up court and be ready to receive the ball late in the shot clock and TJ trying to penetrate and create early in the shot clock. It became clear that O'brien and Ford were frustrated with each other, which ultimately resulted in TJ being benched.

I've read repeatedly in the paper that in order for TJ to be successful he needs to accept O'brien's system. But the problem is that by conforming to the system, which he did late in the season, he loses a lot of his value.

I think Ford will do better next year once he learns the system...Dunleavy and Murph weren't very good when they got here either.

The problem is that once TJ fits better into the system, which he did late in the season, he loses a lot of his value. Dunleavy and Murphy as spot up shooters both benefit from a ball motion offense that creates open looks. TJ, on the other hand, as a ball dominant pg loses much of his value from O'brien's system.

...I just don't understand why we brought TJ in in the first place. It is clear he does not fit into O'brien's system. I think to get the most out of TJ at the point O'brien will have to adjust his system a little to fit TJ's skill set....or maybe TJ could become a spot up shooter.

[Boneman2]

^^^ The main reason we acquired TJ was to move JO's massive contract.

[Crossova21]

And now we want to move TJ...I just think we're giving up on him to fast. The biggest difference between us and the teams at the top of the league (outside of talent) is chemistry. Doesn't really make sense to keep trading the most important position on the court.

[joeshmoe]

^^^ The main reason we acquired TJ was to move JO's massive contract.

I guess we couldn't con someone that had a piece that would fit