Larry Bird and point guards

8305 · Post #1 » by **8305** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 4:07 am

In the Pacer's last three drafts there was an arguement for taking a point guard. In 2006 we passed on Rondo. Jamal was coming off yet another injury filled season. The team was parting company with Anthony Johnson. They at least needed a backup. In 2008 TJ and Jack had been acquired and most were anxious to see what they could do but, on most draft boards Bayless was the best player available at our selection. In 2009 Jrue Holiday was still on the board and the potential of losing Jack was real. It doesn't appear the team had any interest in Ray Sessions.

One year in Tj does not look like a long term answer to me. Earl Watson is an interesting one year rental but unless he is at least sharing the position by year's end he's probably gone.

During the Boston glory years Dennis Johnson handled the pg duties and he would have to be classified a hybrid. LA won it all this past season with their own unconventional pg. With enough talent at other positions great traditional pg play is not a requirement for success.

Is Larry waiting for this generation's Dennis Johnson to fall into his lap? If so who is that guy? Or could it be he really likes Sherron Collins (the top senior pg)?

tinker3284 · Post #2 » by **tinker3284** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 4:26 am

that is unlikley going to happend,because larry Bird dose not know how to draft real good players,pluse he let's good players side right on down the road,just like the boy that went on to canada and he was a better player then TJ Ford ever thought of being, i hope they send TJ Ford right on down the road

laydo · Post #3 » by **laydo** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 9:15 am

I don't think that Larry Bird is looking for a point guard in the draft next year.

Why? Larry likes the players who can make contrbitution on the court as soon as possible, which means the only choice for the next year draft is John Wall, and it's not likely going to happen.

Also, it takes years for most rookie point guards to be mature enough to start in the league. So, I think that Larry Bird is looking for a future starting point guard by trading or signing from the free agent.

Mike Conley, Acie Law, Randy Foye or Javaris Crittenton could be the target in summer 2011 when the Pacers have plenty of salary space.

Post #4 » by **count55** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 5:03 pm

Rondo was a miss, but there were a lot of questions at the time about him due to his very, very limited shooting ability.

Bayless was not and is not a PG. He's a ball-dominant undersized shooting guard...think Ben Gordon.

Jrue Holiday is a major project who fell late out of the top 5, because he looked intimidated and overwhelmed every time he worked out for a team against similar prospects.

He's not waiting for the next Dennis Johnson, he simply didn't like the guys available at that time.

Wizop · Post #5 » by **Wizop** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 7:42 pm

and he loved Hansbrough. remember he had the deal in place to slide down the draft had Henderson not gone the pick above us. had we picked up that second pick, odds are he would have used one on a point guard.

it is way too early to speculate on next year's needs. Hansbrough, Rush, Price, McBob, and the Jones boys are all unknown quantities at this point. however, it is safe to say that Bird likes his picks to have had at least two years of college ball.

Post #6 » by **count55** » Thu Sep 3, 2009 9:32 pm

The story at Conseco on draft night was that he would have taken Hansbrough at 16 and Sam Young from Pittsburgh at 26.

Also, supposedly the only guy that they were going consider taking over Hansbrough was Brandon Jennings, had he slipped that far. (Assuming, of course, that guys like Evans and Harden, etc, had no chance at falling that far.

jrandis04 · Post #7 » by **jrandis04** » Fri Sep 4, 2009 12:37 am

thats the funniest thing ive heard all day! larry bird does not know how to draft real good players? where were you when he drafted danny granger?

Post #8 » by **Gremz** » Fri Sep 4, 2009 1:03 am

laydo wrote:I don't think that Larry Bird is looking for a point guard in the draft next year.

Why? Larry likes the players who can make contrbitution on the court as soon as possible, which means the only choice for the next year draft is John Wall, and it's not likely going to happen.

Also, it takes years for most rookie point guards to be mature enough to start in the league. So, I think that Larry Bird is looking for a future starting point guard by trading or signing from the free agent.

Mike Conley, Acie Law, Randy Foye or Javaris Crittenton could be the target in summer 2011 when the Pacers have plenty of salary space.

I certainly hope that the bolded guys are not targets.

Post #9 » by **Miller4ever** » Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:06 am

Nice avatar, Gremz.

Post #10 » by **Gremz** » Fri Sep 4, 2009 3:37 am

Miller4ever wrote:Nice avatar, Gremz.

It's ok.......I guess.

laydo · Post #11 » by **laydo** » Fri Sep 4, 2009 4:55 am

Gremz wrote:
laydo wrote:Also, it takes years for most rookie point guards to be mature enough to start in the league. So, I think that Larry Bird is looking for a future starting point guard by trading or signing from the free agent.

Mike Conley, Acie Law, Randy Foye or Javaris Crittenton could be the target in summer 2011 when the Pacers have plenty of salary space.

I certainly hope that the bolded guys are not targets.

Guys like Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Rondo, and Rose are probably not available via trading. So the most possible furture point guard for us to get may be the guy who couldn't have much time to play in his original team or shine as a all-star prospect player.

Remember how we got Jarrett Jack from Portland? He could not compare with guys like CP3 or D-Will or even Felton at first. But he became really solid after he fit into the system.

Post #12 » by **Gremz** » Fri Sep 4, 2009 6:41 am

I didn't mean CP3 or DWill, but Law and Crittenton have done nothing in this league so far. Unless a miracle occurs, I doubt they ever be a quality PG in this league.

Post #13 » by **mizzoupacers** » Fri Sep 4, 2009 2:51 pm

In 2006, when Bird took Shawne Williams, Rondo wasn't the passed-over pg people were mad about. Everyone was mad about not taking Marcus Williams. Remember Marcus Williams?

Also in that draft, Atlanta turned down more highly touted prospects to take Shelden Williams, who so far has been a pretty big disappointment for a high-lottery pick.

The lesson is, never draft a guy named Williams. :wink:

Post #14 » by **Gremz** » Fri Sep 4, 2009 10:29 pm

Poor Terrence Williams.

:nonono:

8305 · Post #15 » by **8305** » Sat Sep 5, 2009 4:26 am

I've always liked Kirk Heinrich's game. Above average defender, shooter and decision maker. Not a remarkable athlete but he doesn't embarass himself. He fits what this team needs from their point guard. Unfortuanately, its pretty tough to build a scenario that would bring him to Indy.

Post #16 » by **Gremz** » Sat Sep 5, 2009 4:53 am

8305 wrote:I've always liked Kirk Heinrich's game. Above average defender, shooter and decision maker. Not a remarkable athlete but he doesn't embarass himself. He fits what this team needs from their point guard. Unfortuanately, its pretty tough to build a scenario that would bring him to Indy.

I was trying to plug something away.

Portland sends: Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake
Portland receives: TJ Ford

Chicago sends: Kirk Hinrich
Chicago receives: Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Indiana sends: TJ Ford
Indiana receives: Kirk Hinrich

Value wise? I have no idea. It would help Chicago with 2010 cap plans, and really give Portland an extra offensive spark off the bench, while we gain on defense and range. Who would go for it? No idea.

Post #17 » by **Miller4ever** » Sat Sep 5, 2009 5:42 am

TJ is not the PG of the future anyway. I think I'd be willing to get one more white guy, but how well would he fare in the Pacers system?

If we swap TJ for Kirk, there will be an outcry from the PC police.

Boneman2 · Post #18 » by **Boneman2** » Sat Sep 5, 2009 6:21 am

Gremz wrote:
8305 wrote:I've always liked Kirk Heinrich's game. Above average defender, shooter and decision maker. Not a remarkable athlete but he doesn't embarass himself. He fits what this team needs from their point guard. Unfortuanately, its pretty tough to build a scenario that would bring him to Indy.

I was trying to plug something away.

Portland sends: Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake
Portland receives: TJ Ford

Chicago sends: Kirk Hinrich
Chicago receives: Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Indiana sends: TJ Ford
Indiana receives: Kirk Hinrich

Yea, it would be really hard defending that Larry is not collecting white players, but I'd say yes.

DGr ange ??? brought up Felton on the trade board, and based off the reaction I think a three-way is the only possible way. Most teams aren't looking for a pg in return for theirs. Felton is similar to Rondo because they clear boards, Rondo is the better defender, while Felton is a better distributor. My point is Rondo will get overpaid and Felton will be a bargain. Sessions and JJ have set the value between 4-5 mill per, so I'd gladly offer Raymond 4 yr/ 21 mill.

8305 · Post #19 » by **8305** » Sat Sep 5, 2009 1:49 pm

Gremz wrote:
8305 wrote:I've always liked Kirk Heinrich's game. Above average defender, shooter and decision maker. Not a remarkable athlete but he doesn't embarass himself. He fits what this team needs from their point guard. Unfortuanately, its pretty tough to build a scenario that would bring him to Indy.

I was trying to plug something away.

Portland sends: Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake
Portland receives: TJ Ford

Chicago sends: Kirk Hinrich
Chicago receives: Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake

Indiana sends: TJ Ford
Indiana receives: Kirk Hinrich

Value wise? I have no idea. It would help Chicago with 2010 cap plans, and really give Portland an extra offensive spark off the bench, while we gain on defense and range. Who would go for it? No idea.

I would trade Ford for Hinrich in a second. Think Bird would too (PC or not). Chicago needs HInrich's ability to play the 2 and I can't see Portland doing this at all. They already have their veteran pg. The problem with the three ways sending out Ford and bringing in another pg is the other two teams would likely cut the Pacers out of the deal. Portland would rather have Hinrich than Ford and Sixers would rather have Felton than Ford.

Post #20 » by **Gremz** » Sun Sep 6, 2009 7:27 am

^My theory for Portland was that by spending future salary on Miller, they can't really be that concerned with 2010 cap space (i think), so TJ only extends their contractual status by one season and gives them a great bench option. Sure Hinrich will help the 2 spot for Chicago, but we know that they have their eyes on Stoudemire etc, so they would have to listen. It's not like Deng's stock is high atm.

As for the white guy thing, it's rather ridiculous. I'm all for improving the team. Regardless of what race they are, a player that will help us, will help us. I think we'd all want a Chauncey Billups, but that's just not possible.