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...then Larry Bird is a genius

Dahntay Jones (1 game) - 17 points, 5 rebounds
Earl Watson (1 game) - 20 points, 1 rebound, 1 assist
Solomon Jones (1 game) - 2 points, 4 rebounds, 2 blocks


Marquis Daniels (2 games) - 9 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists
Jarrett Jack (1 game) - 6 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists
Rasho Nesterovic (1 game) - 4 points, 2 rebounds

New acquisitions - 39 points, 10 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 blocks
Departures - 19 points, 9 rebounds, 9 assists

There you have it folks. Our offseason moves were the work of a front office mastermind

But:

Dahntay Jones (1 game) = 0-1
Earl Watson (1 game) = 0-1
Soloman Jones (1 game) = 0-1

Marquis Daniels (2 games) = 2-0
Jarrett Jack (1 game) = 1-0
Rasho Nesterovic (1 game) = 1-0

New acquisitions = 0-3
Departures = 4-0

Looks like the guys that left made good decisions and the guys that came in made poor choices to come here!!!

I like the Bill Polian philosophy, he doesnt look at stats until after 6 games have been played b/c a smaller sample size "creates ambiguous stats"....the equivalent % of an NBA season would be 31 games.....lets revisit their stats in January!

But I do like the effort of a convo starter Dunthreevy!!

Great stat work, really.

you forgot luther head.
Also, I think dahntay, and watson got more minutes than the other players.

I would like to see Watson get more assists in all that playing time. just 1? Need a little more out of him, but none the less a great first game.

The Pacers system is set up to get huge stats, though...we play a fast offense, meaning games can end 120-109 like Atlanta's game did. That means lots of shots. Lots of shots means lots of points, assists, and, assuming percentages are the same, more rebounds. Also, it's easier to get stats when you're losing by 20 because the other team doesn't really care. Percentages in quarters 1-3 is usually a good indicator of how a player is doing. Even then, though, stats really don't tell the whole story.

FreeRon wrote:The Pacers system is set up to get huge stats, though...we play a fast offense, meaning games can end 120-109 like Atlanta's game did. That means lots of shots. Lots of shots means lots of points, assists, and, assuming percentages are the same, more rebounds. Also, it's easier to get stats when you're losing by 20 because the other team doesn't really care. Percentages in quarters 1-3 is usually a good indicator of how a player is doing. Even then, though, stats really don't tell the whole story.

Considering the game was tight up until the last few minutes, and Dahntay and Earl put up a majority of their points in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, that argument doesn't really work here.


To clarify for everyone else, this thread was honestly just a funny little stab at the argument of our off-season moves being what most analysts consider terrible. I'm a firm believer that it will end up showing that we got more for our money, by getting THREE players with that MLE that will contribute significantly, as opposed to using the whole thing on Jack.

I wasn't saying we didn't come out ahead by letting those 3 walk. I actually think we came out ahead. I also wasn't talking about those stats in particular. I was just saying that even in January you can't put too much stock in stats because bad teams are considerably behind when a lot of those stats are put up. I think we all knew it was a joke, it just brought up the topic of statistical analysis and that's what I commented on.

Dunthreevy wrote:[

To clarify for everyone else, this thread was honestly just a funny little stab at the argument of our off-season moves being what most analysts consider terrible. I'm a firm believer that it will end up showing that we got more for our money, by getting THREE players with that MLE that will contribute significantly, as opposed to using the whole thing on Jack.

Yes yes threevy, i know youre not too serious about your stats there but you have to admit Larry Bird would take hook shots stat over yours anyday. Wouldnt you agree?

Dahntay (6 games) - 15 points, 4.7 rebounds. 1.7 assists, 1 block per
Earl (6 games) - 9.3 points, 3.3 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1 steal per
Solo (6 games) - 4.8 points, 5.5 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1.5 blocks per
COMBINED - 29.1 points, 13.5 rebounds, 5.2 assists
PACERS W/L - 3/3


Jack (8 games) - 7 points, 1.9 rebounds, 2.8 assists per
Quisy (8 games) - 6.3 points, 2.3 rebounds, 2.9 assists per
Rasho (6 games) - 3 points, 1.8 rebounds per
COMBINED - 16.3 points, 6 rebounds, 5. 7 assists
BOSTON W/L - 8/1
TORONTO W/L - 4/4

Dunthreevy wrote:Dahntay (6 games) - 15 points, 4.7 rebounds. 1.7 assists, 1 block per
Earl (6 games) - 9.3 points, 3.3 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1 steal per
Solo (6 games) - 4.8 points, 5.5 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1.5 blocks per
COMBINED - 29.1 points, 13.5 rebounds, 5.2 assists
PACERS W/L - 3/3


Jack (8 games) - 7 points, 1.9 rebounds, 2.8 assists per
Quisy (8 games) - 6.3 points, 2.3 rebounds, 2.9 assists per
Rasho (6 games) - 3 points, 1.8 rebounds per
COMBINED - 16.3 points, 6 rebounds, 5. 7 assists
BOSTON W/L - 8/1
TORONTO W/L - 4/4

C'mon 'Threevy, we established obie's system is designed to allow players to put up big numbers in garbage time!!!

I actually disagree with both of those statements made by earlier posters. Look at our guys mpg, they are all above 20. I hope 40% of our gametime isn't 'garbage' time. I also don't see how our system is condusive to big stats when we are near the middle on the NBA in PPG. Our's and our opponent's FG% are in the lower portion of the league standings so that would allow higher rebounding numbers but our assists also rank lower in the NBA standings.....So I would say our stats are comparable to the rest of the league.

As for MY apples to oranges player analysis
Dahntay - 33.5mpg, +12.5eff rating
Earl - 28.0mpg, +12.5eff rating
Solo - 20.3mpg, +8.17eff rating
AVE - 27.3mpg, +11.1 EFF rating = +.41 eff per minute

Jack - 24.9mpg, +5.0eff rating
Quisy - 21.6mpg, +8.0eff rating
Rasho - 7.5mpg, +5.0eff rating
AVE. - 18.0mpg, 6.0 EFF rating = +.33 eff per minute

I look at it like this:

Solo > Rasho -- Pretty simple. Rasho looked like a corpse here after the first 10 games. Solo brings the athleticism and defense we need in the paint. And he can play big minutes if Roy is in foul trouble without laboring up and down the court.

DJones > Quisy -- Probably the best pickup. Now, I'm a big Quisy fan and I didn't want to see him leave but even I have to admit that Dahntay has filled Quis' role nicely. I thought we would miss Quis' ability to get to the rim, but Jones' offense has been much better than I expected. On defense, Quis was great last year but Dahntay is just as good, if not better.

Watson = Jack -- Jack really grew on me last year and he seems like a great guy. I think we miss the intangibles he brought. He was that vocal leader that kept people accountable and kept spirits high. I don't think Watson has that in him but I see DJones trying to fill that role. As far as on the court production, Watson has been pretty good so far. He's probably a better point guard than Jack, a better shooter and better defender, but Jack is better at getting to the rim and getting to the line. I don't think we'll miss that very much with the way Tyler has been playing. The one thing that worries me is who is going to step up when something needs to be said. We saw Jack get in TJs face when he was being selfish and that impelled O'Brien to make the switch. That should be Granger, but we'll see if he has it in him.

Dahntay Jones is not as good as a healthy Quisy. Factor in injuries and they are about even.

I personally would take Jack over Watson, even though Watson fills our team needs better. Jack is younger and has more potential.

Miller4ever wrote:Dahntay Jones is not as good as a healthy Quisy. Factor in injuries and they are about even.

I personally would take Jack over Watson, even though Watson fills our team needs better. Jack is younger and has more potential.

That is what I was trying to get at.

HookShotHibbert wrote:AVE - 27.3mpg, +11.1 EFF rating = +.41 eff per minute

AVE. - 18.0mpg, 6.0 EFF rating = +.33 eff per minute

The difference in efficiency of .08 per minute is probably negligible. Statisically speaking: On any given night, the stats of the old guys vs. the new guys probably wouldn't make a difference towards a win or a loss. We basically fixed our 'broken down car' with 'manufacturer replacement parts' and not 'high performance parts' (please don't bash my use of air quotes!!)

Since the stats between the two groups are negligible, the success of the new players will come from whether the sum of the parts plays as a more cohesive unit than last years parts.

Miller4ever wrote:Dahntay Jones is not as good as a healthy Quisy. Factor in injuries and they are about even.

I personally would take Jack over Watson, even though Watson fills our team needs better. Jack is younger and has more potential.

I would take Jack over Watson as well. However, I wouldn't take Jack over Dahntay, Solo, Earl, and Luther.

As for Jones vs. Quisy, I'll take Jones. You can't really say "factor in injuries and such and such happens" because if you factor in injuries Ken Griffey Jr. would've gone down as the greatest HR hitter of all time. Quisy is a walking injury waiting to happen. As a great man named Shawn Carter once said...

"men lie and women lie. Numbers don't"

Dahntey is comparable to Quisy, except he defends quite well. Daniels was never a stopper. I agree though, Jack looked good here last year, but let us give Watson a chance. Watson looked comfortable handling and disributing the ball last night, besides Jack is more of a combo guard.

Dunthreevy wrote:As for Jones vs. Quisy, I'll take Jones. You can't really say "factor in injuries and such and such happens" because if you factor in injuries Ken Griffey Jr. would've gone down as the greatest HR hitter of all time. Quisy is a walking injury waiting to happen. As a great man named Shawn Carter once said...

"men lie and women lie. Numbers don't"

That's what I was saying. I think without injuries Quis > Jones but since we're not playing the "if" game, they are even in my eyes.

Miller4ever wrote:Dahntay Jones is not as good as a healthy Quisy. Factor in injuries and they are about even.

I personally would take Jack over Watson, even though Watson fills our team needs better. Jack is younger and has more potential.

I don't agree with either contention. Jones is tougher, a better shooter and better defender than Daniels. Daniels has a better handle and is a more creative (but certainly not a stronger) finisher. But most importantly Daniels is just plain fragile. As a Pacer he probably missed 30% of the games.

Jack was a really valuble player last year because he can play two positions. Since Daniels missed so many games and Rush struggled the majority of the season Jack was needed to play the 2. My recall is that he played more 2 than 1 last year. Plug in a guy like Jones, more reliable Rush and hopefully Dunleavy and there would be no need for Jack at the 2 this year. As a full time point guard Jack has some weaknesses. He turns the ball over too much and he struggles to defend quicker players. Watson is better at taking care of the ball and defending quicker players. Given the role the team is filling Watson is a better fit this year.

For some reason, I feel absurdity of this thread musn't die and in fact it needs a new post to bump it....

If the playoffs were to start today:
1. Atlanta
2. Miami
3. Boston
4. Clevland
5. Orlando
6. Milwaukee
7. Indiana
8. Chicago

Although we have lost to Miami and Atlanta already this year, I would love to meet either of them in the playoffs...Who would have thought the Central would have FOUR playoof teams...Who ever would have guessed Mil would be a higher seed than us...And yes I realize it is VERY early and many seeds will probably change before May!

HookShotHibbert wrote:For some reason, I feel absurdity of this thread musn't die and in fact it needs a new post to bump it....

If the playoffs were to start today:
1. Atlanta
2. Miami
3. Boston
4. Clevland
5. Orlando
6. Milwaukee
7. Indiana
8. Chicago

Although we have lost to Miami and Atlanta already this year, I would love to meet either of them in the playoffs...Who would have thought the Central would have FOUR playoof teams...Who ever would have guessed Mil would be a higher seed than us...And yes I realize it is VERY early and many seeds will probably change before May!

LOCK.IT.IN.