RealGM

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/63531/20091220/murphy_may_be_an_option_for_cavaliers/

Something that has been flying around the board for awhile. Does this look like action could be taken soon? If so, what's the realistic deal that we are looking at here?

Is a deal involving an expiring (Big Z) + either a 1st or Hickson out of the question.

What do you guys think?

This move makes alot of sense to and I think that's why it has gotten so much discussion. Before the season started I didn't like the idea because I thought Murphy for Z and either a 1st or HIckson would really hurt the Pacer's chances for success this year. Observations so far this year

1. Pacers played their best basketball when Murphy was hurt.
2. When Granger returns I expect a lot more of the small lineup anyway.
3. Hansbrough has played well. Without Murphy, Hansbrough would get more minutes and his game would evolve more quickly. The same with HIbbert.
4. Dunleavy and Murphy getting extended minutes on the same team is a flawed concept. They both have too many defensive weaknesses.

All that said Murphy is still a unique player and his contract is short enough that he shouldn't be given away. If the Pacers make the Cleveland deal I hope they get more than just a money savings out of it.

I hope Bird is not dumb enough to do it without getting something in return from them other then Z, I would rather it be Hickson rather than their pick about 25th. The expiring of Z just is not enough for me I think the Cavs fans think that will get it done. Z expiring really does not do that much for us, maybe get us under the tax next year but we lose talent for nothing in return, Bird be smart the Cavs are the ones in need here not us.

Train7492 wrote:I hope Bird is not dumb enough to do it without getting something in return from them other then Z, I would rather it be Hickson rather than their pick about 25th. The expiring of Z just is not enough for me I think the Cavs fans think that will get it done. Z expiring really does not do that much for us, maybe get us under the tax next year but we lose talent for nothing in return, Bird be smart the Cavs are the ones in need here not us.

Yup! Totally aggree!

Murphy's value will turn bigger next year when his contract is only in one year. By then, there will be more teams show interested in him. I don't think Bird will trade him simply to save the money, even Murphy ask to be traded.

Also, it takes time for the team to develope chemistry whenever the roster is changed, and it hurts a lot when you do the trade during the season.

Makes sense to me that Cleveland would be interested. Murphy would be a good fit on a team with a real center and a LeBron who gets easy shots for everyone.

If the Cavs offer Z and Hickson, the Pacers should jump all over that. A salary dump (next year) AND a pretty good prospect? We'll never get a better offer for Murphy than that. I doubt they'll include Hickson though.

Maybe they'd offer next summer's (late) first-round pick. So then we get a salary dump and a marginal pick. I guess it's possible we could do better than that for a near double-double guy, even one that comes with so-so defense and a lousy contract. I'd be on the fence if the Cavs' offer was Z + pick.

As much as I think people hype Hickson too much, I wouldn't be completely opposed to trading Murphy for Z + Hickson, purely for financial reasons and the fact that it looks like Tyler is adapting to the pro game a lot quicker than I expected.

Z and Hickson wouldn't be enough for me. No doubt Murphy needs to be moved, but at least throw us a conditional 1st along with Hickson. Like Hickson has ever done anything in the NBA to warrant being a valuable throw in.

No way do we get a 1st Rd pick along with Hickson, that is a joke.

ahartleyvu wrote:No way do we get a 1st Rd pick along with Hickson, that is a joke.

+1

8305 wrote:1. Pacers played their best basketball when Murphy was hurt.

It's hard to argue for this. We played against some weak teams during that five game span, aside from the Celtics, who are now playing their best basketball in a while.

Train7492 wrote:I hope Bird is not dumb enough to do it without getting something in return from them other then Z, I would rather it be Hickson rather than their pick about 25th. The expiring of Z just is not enough for me I think the Cavs fans think that will get it done. Z expiring really does not do that much for us, maybe get us under the tax next year but we lose talent for nothing in return, Bird be smart the Cavs are the ones in need here not us.

I like the idea of getting a #1 and cash and then flipping Big Z to the Knicks for Jeffries, Nate and Wilson Chandler, or Curry and Chandler and then flip Curry and TJ for McGrady and Landry! Problem is wiht this that we end up with too many contracts.

One of the assets I'd like to pick up in any trade for Murphy would be a 2nd lottery pick (we obviously will have a high lottery pick ourselves), so that we could then flip 2 lottery picks for the #1 pick (if we don't get it in the lottery anyway), and then we could draft John Wall and all would be right in the world.

Guys, I have an idea that might be work!

First of all, I'm sick of the way that T.J. has played. He always sticks with the ball too long and take too many tought shot as if he were Allen Iverson. So, my though would be send both Murphy and Ford away.

However, it's been known that the Cavs may not serve enough for us. Therefore, we are going to get the 3rd team involved, which I saw the news about Randy Foye of the Wizards losing time for unknown reason:
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/63557/20091221/foye_isnt_sure_why_hes_lost_time/
So, the following is the 3 way deal...


CLE Cavs
Trade: Zydrunas Ilgauskas, J.J. Hickson, 2010 1st round pick, Wally Szczerbiak (Sign & Trade for 1 yr 8.5M)
Aquaire: Troy Murphy, T.J. Ford, 2010 2nd round pick from IND

WAS Wizards
Trade: Randy Foye, Mike James
Aquaire: Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Travis Diener, 2010 1st round pick from IND(top 5 protected)

IND Pacers
Trade: Troy Murphy, T.J. Ford, Travis Diener, 2010 1st round pick(top 5 protected), 2010 2nd round pick
Aquaire: Randy Foye, Mike James, J.J. Hickson, 2010 1st round pick from CLE, Wally Szczerbiak (Sign & Trade for 1 yr 8.5M)


For the Cavs, they got what they want, Troy Murphy. Don't ask why they would take Ford. Just tell them if they want Murphy, take Ford as well. They maybe also waiting for Big Z to be waived, and it's interesting to see whether their rival team Wizards would do so.


For the Wizards, they are having problem dealing with the salary next summer. Randy Foye, Mike Miller, Javaris Crittenton, and Brendan Haywood are going to be free agents but their salary are stuck with agent zero, Butler and Jamison.

Since they may worrying not able to resign all the players and Foye is now looks like asking for more playing time, I think they would be glad to have a bigger expiring contract and a draft pick in exchange.


For the Pacers, dealing with Murphy give more playing time for the young fellows like Hibbert, Hansbrough, McRoberts, Solomon and Hickson. Exchanging Ford for Foye would also be a big improve.

And for Mike James and Szczerbiak's 1 year contract, which is to match the offer like Van Horn in the deal between DAL and NJ, would release enough salary space for the Pacers to resign Randy Foye next summer. Also, Mike James is a friend and a mentor of A.J. Price.

The roster then goes like this:

C Hibbert, Solo, Foster
PF Hansbrough, Hickson, McRoberts
SF Granger, Dunleavy, (Szczerbiak)
SG Dahntay, Rush, Head
PG Foye, Watson, Price, James

Looks good?!

Take the picks out of it and I'd consider it.

basketballwacko2 wrote:Take the picks out of it and I'd consider it.

Yeah, why would we swap picks when we know ours will be a better one then Cleveland's? And why do we need to throw in our second round pick as well?

Isn't Randy Foye a 2 guard? Correct me if I'm wrong but we give up two point guards, one of which is a starter, for Foye and James, than who starts at point? I would think we would want to upgrade at point guard if we ship out TJ, and this trade doesn't do that for us.

Also, signing Wally for one year and $8.5 million is just never going to happen.

He's basing the Wally signing on the Keith Van Horn signing in the Jason Kidd trade a few yrs back. You'd have to give him 1 yr garanteed and 2 non garanteed. As for Foye he's been touted as a PG but has not really shown that it's his position he's kind of a tweener Freddy Jones type but a little more talented.

If we can get Hickson and Ilgauskas for Murphy, I'd take it and run. The people that are asking for a first round pick are severely overstating Murphy's value. I think we'd be lucky to get Big Z and Hickson, personally.

Murphy makes a lot of sense for the Cavs. He can stretch the floor for LeBron and won't clog the paint. Along with Shaq, he gives the Cavs a nice inside-outside front court combo, similar to what Robert Horry was for all those years with the Lakers and Kobe&Shaq.

But that first-round pick is likely to be in the 25-30 range, so it's not really all that valuable. I think it's more likely the Pacers would get the pick than Hickson. Hickson's worth more than a late-first-round pick.

PR07 wrote:If we can get Hickson and Ilgauskas for Murphy, I'd take it and run. The people that are asking for a first round pick are severely overstating Murphy's value. I think we'd be lucky to get Big Z and Hickson, personally.

This is close to what I was thinking. The key I think is how keen Cleveland would be for a change, and of course what they would be willing to part with in such a deal.

While I would love both the financial reasons and the extra playing time that the young guys would receive in a Big Z for Murphy straight up deal, it just seems a little one sided to me. It's not that I think Murphy is a quality bargaining chip, but surely there must be something else for us here.

I could however just be getting a little greedy, and a look at the recent Maynor trade shows just how concerned some teams are with financial savings. That in itself could make a straight up deal worth a look to management.

mizzoupacers wrote:But that first-round pick is likely to be in the 25-30 range, so it's not really all that valuable. I think it's more likely the Pacers would get the pick than Hickson. Hickson's worth more than a late-first-round pick.

He is, I agree. With an eye towards the draft though, and all probability a likely high lottery pick in mind, it's definitely a big man heavy lottery. Perhaps a late pick in this (likely) deep draft might not be such a bad idea either.

Hickson's definitely worth more than the late first, which is why I think we'd be lucky to him and Big Z.