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Does the fact that I'm secretly hoping the Pacers lose every game (but are still competitive while doing it) and the Kings and Knicks win make me a bad fan? I swear I'm doing it for the benefit that the Pacers have a better chance to win the Draft Lottery, but I still feel like a traitor in the process. I just really want a top 2 pick. I think Wall or Turner can help this team immensely.

I feel the exact same way, if someone wants to call me a bad fan then so be it. But it's the only way we are going to get better. Those years of "lets just hope to make the playoffs" knowing damn well we had no chance of winning the 'ship or even coming close have set us back so far.

I can't stand it. There is no freaking way we are even coming close to winning anything, let a lot a playoff spot w/ guys like Josh freaking McRoberts and Solomon Jones on the roster. Give me a break, seriously. Those two are D-Leaguers on any real competitive, but for some reason some people think that the Pacers have a shot w/ these guys. The Pacers have 1 legit player. 1. Danny Granger. The only other player w/ an upside that could be good with time is Roy Hibbert, and he's still a project. I'm sorry, but Tyler will be nothing more than a Jeff Foster type of player, and for some reason, and I guess it's just become what we are used to here, some fans are happy w/ that. We drafted him over Ty Lawson, w/ a desperate need for a PG, (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Here's the deal, only Granger, out of everybody on the team, is either above or on the same talent level as the other players of his position that are on playoff teams. Watson/Ford/Price are no where near as good as guys like Mo Williams, Billups, Andre Miller, Rondo, Nelson, Kidd, Bibby, etc. Brandon Rush is the same, Murphy is the same, and Hibbert has his upside which is nice and with the right coach and time will be able to be up there I think.

It just seems this fanbase, and this is only my opinion, has just settled for whatever we have, even though it has been more or less, garbage. I mean how long were we (I personally wasn't, but we are fans as a whole) defending and saying Mike Dunleavy was a good player? He's awful. Damn near everyone on the team is awful.

After this draft and our cap room and all that, I only want to see 5 players from this current team still on it. Granger and Roy on the starting 5, w/ Price as a backup PG, Rush as a backup wing, and Tyler as backup big man. Now *GASP*, we could make a starting 5 of that now (except Tyler) to get these guys valueable PT to make them better for the future. Genius, but alas, we don't.

Starkiller wrote:I feel the exact same way, if someone wants to call me a bad fan then so be it. But it's the only way we are going to get better. Those years of "lets just hope to make the playoffs" knowing damn well we had no chance of winning the 'ship or even coming close have set us back so far.

I can't stand it. There is no freaking way we are even coming close to winning anything, let a lot a playoff spot w/ guys like Josh freaking McRoberts and Solomon Jones on the roster. Give me a break, seriously. Those two are D-Leaguers on any real competitive, but for some reason some people think that the Pacers have a shot w/ these guys. The Pacers have 1 legit player. 1. Danny Granger. The only other player w/ an upside that could be good with time is Roy Hibbert, and he's still a project. I'm sorry, but Tyler will be nothing more than a Jeff Foster type of player, and for some reason, and I guess it's just become what we are used to here, some fans are happy w/ that. We drafted him over Ty Lawson, w/ a desperate need for a PG, (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Here's the deal, only Granger, out of everybody on the team, is either above or on the same talent level as the other players of his position that are on playoff teams. Watson/Ford/Price are no where near as good as guys like Mo Williams, Billups, Andre Miller, Rondo, Nelson, Kidd, Bibby, etc. Brandon Rush is the same, Murphy is the same, and Hibbert has his upside which is nice and with the right coach and time will be able to be up there I think.

It just seems this fanbase, and this is only my opinion, has just settled for whatever we have, even though it has been more or less, garbage. I mean how long were we (I personally wasn't, but we are fans as a whole) defending and saying Mike Dunleavy was a good player? He's awful. Damn near everyone on the team is awful.

After this draft and our cap room and all that, I only want to see 5 players from this current team still on it. Granger and Roy on the starting 5, w/ Price as a backup PG, Rush as a backup wing, and Tyler as backup big man. Now *GASP*, we could make a starting 5 of that now (except Tyler) to get these guys valueable PT to make them better for the future. Genius, but alas, we don't.

Agree 100%^. We'll never make the playoffs with Murphy starting. Rush has impressed me a little but I still don't think he should start over Dahntay.

While we need to get better, we have to walk the tightrope of tanking enough to get a good pick and winning enough to retain what little fanbase is left.

Crossova21 wrote:

Starkiller wrote:I feel the exact same way, if someone wants to call me a bad fan then so be it. But it's the only way we are going to get better. Those years of "lets just hope to make the playoffs" knowing damn well we had no chance of winning the 'ship or even coming close have set us back so far.

I can't stand it. There is no freaking way we are even coming close to winning anything, let a lot a playoff spot w/ guys like Josh freaking McRoberts and Solomon Jones on the roster. Give me a break, seriously. Those two are D-Leaguers on any real competitive, but for some reason some people think that the Pacers have a shot w/ these guys. The Pacers have 1 legit player. 1. Danny Granger. The only other player w/ an upside that could be good with time is Roy Hibbert, and he's still a project. I'm sorry, but Tyler will be nothing more than a Jeff Foster type of player, and for some reason, and I guess it's just become what we are used to here, some fans are happy w/ that. We drafted him over Ty Lawson, w/ a desperate need for a PG, (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Here's the deal, only Granger, out of everybody on the team, is either above or on the same talent level as the other players of his position that are on playoff teams. Watson/Ford/Price are no where near as good as guys like Mo Williams, Billups, Andre Miller, Rondo, Nelson, Kidd, Bibby, etc. Brandon Rush is the same, Murphy is the same, and Hibbert has his upside which is nice and with the right coach and time will be able to be up there I think.

It just seems this fanbase, and this is only my opinion, has just settled for whatever we have, even though it has been more or less, garbage. I mean how long were we (I personally wasn't, but we are fans as a whole) defending and saying Mike Dunleavy was a good player? He's awful. Damn near everyone on the team is awful.

After this draft and our cap room and all that, I only want to see 5 players from this current team still on it. Granger and Roy on the starting 5, w/ Price as a backup PG, Rush as a backup wing, and Tyler as backup big man. Now *GASP*, we could make a starting 5 of that now (except Tyler) to get these guys valueable PT to make them better for the future. Genius, but alas, we don't.

Agree 100%^. We'll never make the playoffs with Murphy starting. Rush has impressed me a little but I still don't think he should start over Dahntay.

if Rush and Hibbert were gonna hit a wall at anytime during their respective careers the 2nd year (aka the sophomore slump) is here and it's happened.

How they approach it from their 3rd year forward is what's gonna define their careers.

Look at what Croshere did in his 3rd year when the Pacers traded away Antonio Davis.

Same as it is for a lot of players who fly high as a rookie, slump as a 2nd year player, only to shine with solid careers from their 3rd year on.

Count me in in the bad fan category...

Me too. This team needs a top 3 pick and then to trade the expirings for a legit player at the trade deadline next year. That's the only way fans are going to come back to sell out Conseco.

I hate to do it, but that really is the only way.

DWCP2 wrote:if Rush and Hibbert were gonna hit a wall at anytime during their respective careers the 2nd year (aka the sophomore slump) is here and it's happened.

How they approach it from their 3rd year forward is what's gonna define their careers.

Look at what Croshere did in his 3rd year when the Pacers traded away Antonio Davis.

Same as it is for a lot of players who fly high as a rookie, slump as a 2nd year player, only to shine with solid careers from their 3rd year on.

Uh, I get what you're saying here, but do we really want to give Croshere as a best-case scenario for Hibbert and Rush?

"Hey, maybe they'll outperform in their 3rd and 4th year, and we'll end up massively overpaying them and then immediately find out they were just 7th/8th man roleplayers playing way above their actual level!"



Alls I know is, we haven't been this close to a pick this high in a long, long time. We ain't making the playoffs and we shouldn't be ashamed of tanking.

There is only one objective right now, and that is to absolutely have the worst record possible and hope that Minnesota, GSW, etc all screw up and win a few more games.

Get Wall or Turner.

By November of next year, no one will remember the tanking.

jowglenn wrote:

DWCP2 wrote:if Rush and Hibbert were gonna hit a wall at anytime during their respective careers the 2nd year (aka the sophomore slump) is here and it's happened.

How they approach it from their 3rd year forward is what's gonna define their careers.

Look at what Croshere did in his 3rd year when the Pacers traded away Antonio Davis.

Same as it is for a lot of players who fly high as a rookie, slump as a 2nd year player, only to shine with solid careers from their 3rd year on.

Uh, I get what you're saying here, but do we really want to give Croshere as a best-case scenario for Hibbert and Rush?

"Hey, maybe they'll outperform in their 3rd and 4th year, and we'll end up massively overpaying them and then immediately find out they were just 7th/8th man roleplayers playing way above their actual level!"



Alls I know is, we haven't been this close to a pick this high in a long, long time. We ain't making the playoffs and we shouldn't be ashamed of tanking.

There is only one objective right now, and that is to absolutely have the worst record possible and hope that Minnesota, GSW, etc all screw up and win a few more games.

Get Wall or Turner.

By November of next year, no one will remember the tanking.

^^ Ya because Bird will finally trade Murphy and we get John Wall

Miller4ever wrote:While we need to get better, we have to walk the tightrope of tanking enough to get a good pick and winning enough to retain what little fanbase is left.

Tbh, what sort of fans do we have if they give up when things aren't going our way? Can't imagine I'd give up on Indy, no matter how long we were stuck at the lower end of the league.

I'd like to see us perform better though, no question.

I don't think any of us are giving up. How many straight losing seasons have we had yet here we are on an NBA forum discussing how we want to improve our team because we want what's best for the team. Not because we're giving up, but because we care and want to see the Pacers get better. We really do need another great player and unfortunately the only way it seems we're going to do that is if we get a top 2 pick. I don't want to see the Pacers leave Indiana, but if we continue to not get support from other fans then it's a definite possibility. I just think a top pick could greatly help this team and bring a lot more support and interest. I will always love the Pacers, and will never give up on them.

not sure why this double posts so much.

Gremz wrote:Tbh, what sort of fans do we have if they give up when things aren't going our way? Can't imagine I'd give up on Indy, no matter how long we were stuck at the lower end of the league.

I'd like to see us perform better though, no question.

More or less, I was trying to sum up a good compromise.

My preference it that we win every game we play from now on. While we may not be getting a high pick, it means the group that we have now is making improvement, and that would be a positive for me heading into the next season.

Miller4ever wrote:While we need to get better, we have to walk the tightrope of tanking enough to get a good pick and winning enough to retain what little fanbase is left.

Fans will come with winning. It's just the nature of sports, ESPECIALLY in Indy (See: Colts).

I don't think it makes you a bad fan at all. I know i said this a while ago, maybe last draft, but i was watching some pre-draft coverage on like fox sports and they had bunch of experts on and they said this point, which has stuck with me til today because it made so much sense... you only can build a great team by either 2-ways.

1. Getting lucky in the draft and landing a star, and with increased scouting and such, once you get out of the top 7-10 picks, you're probably not going to land that star player, so you NEED to not only get a top 3-5 pick, but also, get VERY good scouting. Just because you land a high pick, doesn't always translate to a star (see Greg Oden).... but the higher pick you have, the better chances you have.

or

2. Having the right package of expiring and youth, at the right time, where a team has a disgruntled star.... ala Bryant not wanting to play in Charlotte, or Kevin Garnett in Minnesota for example. These don't come often, but when they do, it can change a teams fortune's around. But, the easier way is through the draft.

So, the Pacers have the role player pieces and a possible star in Granger, but they need another star. Unless they get lucky in 2011 free agency, their best bet is the NBA lottery and picking Evan Turner.