OT: Jets playoff question

[wwtsm]

Quick question. I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not a Ravens loss and a Jets win gets NY a wildcard spot. Does anyone know?

[EchelonNYK]

Man, we're done...it's time to look ahead at the draft.

[Handledatruth]

Ravens AND Pats have to lose. Jets have to win. Thats the only way. Well unless you want throw a tie in there.

[Luv those Knicks]

Quick question. I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not a Ravens loss and a Jets win gets NY a wildcard spot. Does anyone know?

If the Ravens lose, according to what I read

They beat Miami in a tie breaker
They beat New England in a tie breaker
The lose to the Jets in a tiebreaker.

So, for that scenario to happen, Baltimore would have to lose, Jets would have to win, New England would have to win.

If Jets win and New England looses, the Jets win the division, so the jets need to win and New England needs to win for the jets to be in the wild card race.

The jets would beat Miami head to head and I've read, but I haven't verified, that they would beat the Ravins - IF the Ravins lose.


Bottom line

The jets need to win (50%)

and they depend on either a New England loss vs Buffalo (50%)

or a Raven loss to Jacksonville (50%) - though realistically, the Ravens should beat Jacksonville at home, but, maybe New England looses to buffalo in buffalo.


Here's an article talking about the Raven's chances

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns


Here's the rules


http://www.quickstats.com/nfl/wildcard.htm



Basically, if New England wins, the jets could tie Miami and they beat Miami in the tie breaker.

Then the Jets go against Baltimore in the tie breaker rules.

Head-to-head, if applicable.
Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
Best average net points in conference games.
Best net points in all games.
Strength of schedule.
Best net touchdowns in all games.
Coin Toss.

They didn't play head to head.

But if Jets win and Ravens lose, Jets are 8-4 against the conference, Ravens are 7-5. Jets win the tiebreaker and, in fact, they win every tiebreaker they could consevably end up in, but they still need one of their 10-5 competitors to lose to see playoffs.

Wining the tiebreakers only counts if you tie. Jets need help to tie.

[Luv those Knicks]

Ravens AND Pats have to lose. Jets have to win. Thats the only way. Well unless you want throw a tie in there.

I think, it's Ravens OR Pats have to lose and Jets have to win. Not Ravens AND Pats.

[TKF]

GOOD work LTK: the jets pretty much screwed themselves. but Here is the case:

If either New England or the ravens lose and the jets win, the Jets are in. they win the division if the pats lose and they win, and they get the wildcard if they win, the pats win and the ravens lose. they would hold the tiebreaker over the ravens in either confrence games or common games. I forgot which one, but the jets beat the ravens in a tiebreaker....

[HarthorneWingo]

F Mangini and the rest of his staff. They stink. They never should have gotten rid of Pennington for Farve. Now Chad is going to break his past personal record for total passing yards in a season and we now have the QB who, admittedly, can't throw anymore.

We're not going to make the playoffs. Farve will now retire - who wants him back anyhow? And Mangini and his staff should go too. Bring in Bill Cowher (assuming you can get him to come here and fix this mess).

I've been a Jets fan since '67. I remember watching the Super Bowl III. I can't take this shytt. So, I'm rooting for Chad and Miami to come into Giants Stadium and rock our world. I hope Chad throws for 400 yards and 4 TDs.

[TKF]

F Mangini and the rest of his staff. They stink. They never should have gotten rid of Pennington for Farve. Now Chad is going to break his past personal record for total passing yards in a season and we now have the QB who, admittedly, can't throw anymore.

We're not going to make the playoffs. Farve will now retire - who wants him back anyhow? And Mangini and his staff should go too. Bring in Bill Cowher (assuming you can get him to come here and fix this mess).

I've been a Jets fan since '67. I remember watching the Super Bowl III. I can't take this shytt. So, I'm rooting for Chad and Miami to come into Giants Stadium and rock our world. I hope Chad throws for 400 yards and 4 TDs.

wingy, I feel your pain, and I have been a jet fan since 80, not as long as you, but I feel your pain.. Chad was not going to lead the jets anywhere, we have been down this road with him before, he is not a cold weather QB... The problem is not Favre, but the coaching has been horrible. Just horrible.... No other way to explain it... Mangini cost us the season by getting outcoached every single week..

[StutterStep]

F Mangini and the rest of his staff. They stink. They never should have gotten rid of Pennington for Farve. Now Chad is going to break his past personal record for total passing yards in a season and we now have the QB who, admittedly, can't throw anymore.

We're not going to make the playoffs. Farve will now retire - who wants him back anyhow? And Mangini and his staff should go too. Bring in Bill Cowher (assuming you can get him to come here and fix this mess).

I've been a Jets fan since '67. I remember watching the Super Bowl III. I can't take this shytt. So, I'm rooting for Chad and Miami to come into Giants Stadium and rock our world. I hope Chad throws for 400 yards and 4 TDs.

I like Chad but man, you need some hot cocoa or something. I know it's cold outside but you're rooting for your team to lose?

But I love that Cower idea! I would be PSYCHED if we got him. We'd be tough again. Right now, our defense and receivers are soft as heck. Only our Quarterback and Running Backs are tough!

[StutterStep]

wingy, I feel your pain, and I have been a jet fan since 80, not as long as you, but I feel your pain.. Chad was not going to lead the jets anywhere, we have been down this road with him before, he is not a cold weather QB... The problem is not Favre, but the coaching has been horrible. Just horrible.... No other way to explain it... Mangini cost us the season by getting outcoached every single week..

Pretty much, and as much as I hate snow and cold weather, I hope we get some. It wasn't the weather that did us in against the Seahawks, only the coach's lack of toughness.

[TKF]

F Mangini and the rest of his staff. They stink. They never should have gotten rid of Pennington for Farve. Now Chad is going to break his past personal record for total passing yards in a season and we now have the QB who, admittedly, can't throw anymore.

We're not going to make the playoffs. Farve will now retire - who wants him back anyhow? And Mangini and his staff should go too. Bring in Bill Cowher (assuming you can get him to come here and fix this mess).

I've been a Jets fan since '67. I remember watching the Super Bowl III. I can't take this shytt. So, I'm rooting for Chad and Miami to come into Giants Stadium and rock our world. I hope Chad throws for 400 yards and 4 TDs.

I like Chad but man, you need some hot cocoa or something. I know it's cold outside but you're rooting for your team to lose?

But I love that Cower idea! I would be PSYCHED if we got him. We'd be tough again. Right now, our defense and receivers are soft as heck. Only our Quarterback and Running Backs are tough!

That three man front can stop the run, but can't rush teh passer, that is why clowns like russel, seneca wallace and that bum from the niners look great vs us.... we didn't beat one of those horrible teams. We don't deserve playoffs... any good team won't go 0-3 vs the raiders, niners and the seahawks.. that is why we don't deserve to get in.. Our receivers don't get seperation, coles is a complainer and he is not that good. never wanted to trade moss for him anyway. Favre is fine, so is thomas jones and washington. Our horrible coaching staff underutilized both weapons.. this choke job is on the coaching staff. they are outcoached every friggin week...

[Flaming Mo]

That three man front can stop the run, but can't rush teh passer, that is why clowns like russel, seneca wallace and that bum from the niners look great vs us.... we didn't beat one of those horrible teams. We don't deserve playoffs... any good team won't go 0-3 vs the raiders, niners and the seahawks.. that is why we don't deserve to get in.. Our receivers don't get seperation, coles is a complainer and he is not that good. never wanted to trade moss for him anyway. Favre is fine, so is thomas jones and washington. Our horrible coaching staff underutilized both weapons.. this choke job is on the coaching staff. they are outcoached every friggin week...

The thing is, it's not even the job of our front 3 to rush the passer. All they need to do is to be stout against the run and keep the blockers of our LBs. Now for most of the season, they did a great job but recently they also couldn't stop the run. Jenkins I think has a little injury but our main problem has been terrible tackling and lack of depth. Behind Jenkins, Coleman (who's nothing special to begin with) and Ellis we have absolutely no depth, except for CJ Mosley who's a solid rotational player.

The problem with our defense is Mangini's "read and react" scheme. We never force the issue, we almost NEVER blitz more than one guy and we always drop back way to deep into coverage. Now what does is that we take away the one huge advantage you want to gain with the 3-4 which is keeping the offense in doubt from where the blitz is coming from. We almost never bring more than 4 people which is easy to pick up even for a backup seahawks oline. We have some tremendous blitzers on the team with Harris, Rhodes and also guys like Pace or Gholston. Yet we completely take away their strengths by never letting them lose. I hate our defensive approach, it's passive, it's against the players' strength and it will kill you in the long run. We have the potential to be special on D with guys like Revis, Rhodes, Jenkins, Ellis, Pace, Harris yet Sutton and Mangini waste it ALL. Look at the best defenses in the league, which I guess are the Steelers, the Ravens and maybe the Giants. Watch all the movement, all the stunts, all their different formations before the snap, that's how you keep an offense off balance. But no, we waste our talent by just sitting back and hoping other teams make a mistake.

Now another thing is, Mangini seems to have lost this team. Seriously, how can you explain their state right now after looking like the best team in the league at 8-3?!? Rhodes was on WFAN and I read that he sounded very bad and as if he had given up on the coaches. And you know what, I can't blame the players. I'm sure they are playing hard but they have no confidence in their plays and the coaching staff. The reason for it is that Mangini and his boys didn't make any adjustments ever in the entire season. We can't stop the pass?!? No changes. We can't get open on offense?! No adjustment. We can't figure out how to get to the QB?! No adjustments. The team after peaking a few games ago could not handle the adjustments by other teams and all Mangini did was sit on his behind and wonder what was happening. I don't know but I have lost all faith in this coaching staff. WE HAVE THE MOST PRO BOWLERS IN THE ENTIRE NFL YET WE CANNOT BEAT SEATTLE IN A MUST WIN GAME?!? Sure, pro bowl is a popularity contest but there is no question that the talent is there (even though we need a lot more athletisism on defense).

BTW Favre has been terrible and I don't want to see him back next year either. His idiotic throws have nothing to do with coaching and his mistakes killed us numerous times.

[TKF]

That three man front can stop the run, but can't rush teh passer, that is why clowns like russel, seneca wallace and that bum from the niners look great vs us.... we didn't beat one of those horrible teams. We don't deserve playoffs... any good team won't go 0-3 vs the raiders, niners and the seahawks.. that is why we don't deserve to get in.. Our receivers don't get seperation, coles is a complainer and he is not that good. never wanted to trade moss for him anyway. Favre is fine, so is thomas jones and washington. Our horrible coaching staff underutilized both weapons.. this choke job is on the coaching staff. they are outcoached every friggin week...

The thing is, it's not even the job of our front 3 to rush the passer. All they need to do is to be stout against the run and keep the blockers of our LBs. Now for most of the season, they did a great job but recently they also couldn't stop the run. Jenkins I think has a little injury but our main problem has been terrible tackling and lack of depth. Behind Jenkins, Coleman (who's nothing special to begin with) and Ellis we have absolutely no depth, except for CJ Mosley who's a solid rotational player.

The problem with our defense is Mangini's "read and react" scheme. We never force the issue, we almost NEVER blitz more than one guy and we always drop back way to deep into coverage. Now what does is that we take away the one huge advantage you want to gain with the 3-4 which is keeping the offense in doubt from where the blitz is coming from. We almost never bring more than 4 people which is easy to pick up even for a backup seahawks oline. We have some tremendous blitzers on the team with Harris, Rhodes and also guys like Pace or Gholston. Yet we completely take away their strengths by never letting them lose. I hate our defensive approach, it's passive, it's against the players' strength and it will kill you in the long run. We have the potential to be special on D with guys like Revis, Rhodes, Jenkins, Ellis, Pace, Harris yet Sutton and Mangini waste it ALL. Look at the best defenses in the league, which I guess are the Steelers, the Ravens and maybe the Giants. Watch all the movement, all the stunts, all their different formations before the snap, that's how you keep an offense off balance. But no, we waste our talent by just sitting back and hoping other teams make a mistake.

Now another thing is, Mangini seems to have lost this team. Seriously, how can you explain their state right now after looking like the best team in the league at 8-3?!? Rhodes was on WFAN and I read that he sounded very bad and as if he had given up on the coaches. And you know what, I can't blame the players. I'm sure they are playing hard but they have no confidence in their plays and the coaching staff. The reason for it is that Mangini and his boys didn't make any adjustments ever in the entire season. We can't stop the pass?!? No changes. We can't get open on offense?! No adjustment. We can't figure out how to get to the QB?! No adjustments. The team after peaking a few games ago could not handle the adjustments by other teams and all Mangini did was sit on his behind and wonder what was happening. I don't know but I have lost all faith in this coaching staff. WE HAVE THE MOST PRO BOWLERS IN THE ENTIRE NFL YET WE CANNOT BEAT SEATTLE IN A MUST WIN GAME?!? Sure, pro bowl is a popularity contest but there is no question that the talent is there (even though we need a lot more athletisism on defense).

BTW Favre has been terrible and I don't want to see him back next year either. His idiotic throws have nothing to do with coaching and his mistakes killed us numerous times.

well, I am not as hard on favre as you are, but i would not mind seeing brett Ratliff get the ball next year..

As far as the bolded part, you got it right there... we have the most probowlers and yet we may not make the playoff. We have way too much talent to not be 12-4... Losing to the seahawks, raiders,denver and niners are all on mangini's head. On defense we neuter our playmakers and on offense, how do you not get leon washington 10 touches a game? How!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would ram washington and Jones down the opposing teams throat every friggin game.. again, we are 9-6 because we are getting badly outcoached..

[krustytheclown]

remember when you guys thought you'd make the superbowl?

[StutterStep]

^remember when you thought the kid was yours

[Daaaarryyl]

2 years of the Mets and now this

At least the Knicks don't choke. They're never in it.

[Flaming Mo]

well, I am not as hard on favre as you are, but i would not mind seeing brett Ratliff get the ball next year..

As far as the bolded part, you got it right there... we have the most probowlers and yet we may not make the playoff. We have way too much talent to not be 12-4... Losing to the seahawks, raiders,denver and niners are all on mangini's head. On defense we neuter our playmakers and on offense, how do you not get leon washington 10 touches a game? How!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would ram washington and Jones down the opposing teams throat every friggin game.. again, we are 9-6 because we are getting badly outcoached..

Your last part is the key. That should have been our identity from midseason on, as not only our Oline started to gel but Favre also showed that he is very inconsistent at this point in his career. Jones was the leading rusher in the AFC, we opened huge holes for him and Leon is a great change of pace back. But that's something we never did this year, we never found an idendity. Are we a running team or a passing offense?! We also never found something on defense that worked. See, the Jets are a traditional cold weather team, we should resemble a rugged ground game with a strong defense. But no, we play scared on defense and on offense we never do anything consistent. And we had the pieces in place. Faneca, Mangold and Woody are very good run blockers, Moore is solid. Even D'Brick while not special with his initial search can get down the field and is a great blocker in space. Our receiving core isn't anything special even though Keller will be a playmaker in the future. We have no one who can stretch the field and run DBs out of the play. No one. But this all are other problems, the main problem has been our lack of finding the obvious identity. And that's on the coaching staff. 4th and 1 at the Seahawks 2 and we kick a field goal?!? After Jones gained like 5 yards per rush on the opening drive?! Yeah right, good going...

The same thing on defense. We invest all this money in Gholston, Pace, Bryan Thomas and what do we do?! Drop them back in coverage many many times, keep them in check and never let them loose. Never. I don't know how many times I saw Pace trailing a TE on a first down catch. This is by no means on Pace. This guy is a freaking 270 pound LB who should go after the QB. Same with Gholston. All he can do at this point in his career is rush the passer, ram forward and get upfield. While he is struggling a lot and stuff, no question, but our coaching staff never put him in a situation where he could really cause havoc. Rush him with more guys, let his athletic ability take over. same with Harris. This guy was a beast last year and now I also only see him in coverage and dropping back. Why, goddamn, why?! Our DBs are 20 yards downfield because our coaching staff is so freaking afraid of being beaten deep. Seriously, what is worse, take a chance of a 30 yard completion with one side of the field covered by Darrelle Revis and Rhodes roaming in the backfield or basically conceding EVERY freaking underneath pass play that results in long drives for opponents, a tired Jenkins and growing confidence for opposing scrubs. We let the likes of Shaun Hill and Seneca Wallace get into a rythmn and then we wonder why they complete more and more passes. Again, our coaching staff is responsible for the one and only character treat I see now with this team and that is passivness. Or should I say fear?! Both things fit, we play passive, we play scared and we play not to lose. Not gonna work.

And for the people who say we did a lot of things right when we were 8-3, let's be honest. We should have even had a better record at that point with all the talent we had. We lost to Oakland, almost lost to Kansas City. We matched up perfectly with the Titans, that's it. It's a shame, the Jets probably blew a huge chance this year and who knows what will happen next year.

[TKF]

well, I am not as hard on favre as you are, but i would not mind seeing brett Ratliff get the ball next year..

As far as the bolded part, you got it right there... we have the most probowlers and yet we may not make the playoff. We have way too much talent to not be 12-4... Losing to the seahawks, raiders,denver and niners are all on mangini's head. On defense we neuter our playmakers and on offense, how do you not get leon washington 10 touches a game? How!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would ram washington and Jones down the opposing teams throat every friggin game.. again, we are 9-6 because we are getting badly outcoached..

Your last part is the key. That should have been our identity from midseason on, as not only our Oline started to gel but Favre also showed that he is very inconsistent at this point in his career. Jones was the leading rusher in the AFC, we opened huge holes for him and Leon is a great change of pace back. But that's something we never did this year, we never found an idendity. Are we a running team or a passing offense?! We also never found something on defense that worked. See, the Jets are a traditional cold weather team, we should resemble a rugged ground game with a strong defense. But no, we play scared on defense and on offense we never do anything consistent. And we had the pieces in place. Faneca, Mangold and Woody are very good run blockers, Moore is solid. Even D'Brick while not special with his initial search can get down the field and is a great blocker in space. Our receiving core isn't anything special even though Keller will be a playmaker in the future. We have no one who can stretch the field and run DBs out of the play. No one. But this all are other problems, the main problem has been our lack of finding the obvious identity. And that's on the coaching staff. 4th and 1 at the Seahawks 2 and we kick a field goal?!? After Jones gained like 5 yards per rush on the opening drive?! Yeah right, good going...

The same thing on defense. We invest all this money in Gholston, Pace, Bryan Thomas and what do we do?! Drop them back in coverage many many times, keep them in check and never let them loose. Never. I don't know how many times I saw Pace trailing a TE on a first down catch. This is by no means on Pace. This guy is a freaking 270 pound LB who should go after the QB. Same with Gholston. All he can do at this point in his career is rush the passer, ram forward and get upfield. While he is struggling a lot and stuff, no question, but our coaching staff never put him in a situation where he could really cause havoc. Rush him with more guys, let his athletic ability take over. same with Harris. This guy was a beast last year and now I also only see him in coverage and dropping back. Why, goddamn, why?! Our DBs are 20 yards downfield because our coaching staff is so freaking afraid of being beaten deep. Seriously, what is worse, take a chance of a 30 yard completion with one side of the field covered by Darrelle Revis and Rhodes roaming in the backfield or basically conceding EVERY freaking underneath pass play that results in long drives for opponents, a tired Jenkins and growing confidence for opposing scrubs. We let the likes of Shaun Hill and Seneca Wallace get into a rythmn and then we wonder why they complete more and more passes. Again, our coaching staff is responsible for the one and only character treat I see now with this team and that is passivness. Or should I say fear?! Both things fit, we play passive, we play scared and we play not to lose. Not gonna work.

And for the people who say we did a lot of things right when we were 8-3, let's be honest. We should have even had a better record at that point with all the talent we had. We lost to Oakland, almost lost to Kansas City. We matched up perfectly with the Titans, that's it. It's a shame, the Jets probably blew a huge chance this year and who knows what will happen next year.

I could never understand that. I would see guys catch the ball underneath for 5 yards and there not be a jet within 10 yards of him. Crossing patterns, underneath passes, quick outs are all open and all day... As you said, it is friggin stupid when you have cover guys like revis playing so far off. Yea we don't get beat deep, but we get the heck kicked out of us underneath.... you hit the nail on the head. we don't get beat deep, but we get killed underneath every time.... guys get tired from being on the field.. I would blitz more and tell guys like revis and rhodes, now is the time for you to make more plays.. those guys are not bad, our secondary looks bad because they have to defend for 7 seconds!!!

[HarthorneWingo]

F Mangini and the rest of his staff. They stink. They never should have gotten rid of Pennington for Farve. Now Chad is going to break his past personal record for total passing yards in a season and we now have the QB who, admittedly, can't throw anymore.

We're not going to make the playoffs. Farve will now retire - who wants him back anyhow? And Mangini and his staff should go too. Bring in Bill Cowher (assuming you can get him to come here and fix this mess).

I've been a Jets fan since '67. I remember watching the Super Bowl III. I can't take this shytt. So, I'm rooting for Chad and Miami to come into Giants Stadium and rock our world. I hope Chad throws for 400 yards and 4 TDs.

wingy, I feel your pain, and I have been a jet fan since 80, not as long as you, but I feel your pain.. Chad was not going to lead the jets anywhere, we have been down this road with him before, he is not a cold weather QB... The problem is not Favre, but the coaching has been horrible. Just horrible.... No other way to explain it... Mangini cost us the season by getting outcoached every single week..

Yo Teke. You say that Chad wasn't going to lead us anywhere but look where he's leading Mihyami, menk (spanish for "man"). The Fins are going to win the Division and it's not because of the warm weather. What about that other Miami team that went undefeated? I'm sure they didn't play all there games at Joe Roby. Anyhow, Pennington has the second best quarterback efficiency rating in the AFC this year behind Philip Rivers. He's throwing the shytt out of the ball while Farve is admitting to the press that he "doesn't have it anymore." And he doesn't. Look at Farve's passing ratings over the past 4 weeks ... they're pathetic. He's done. Over the hill. Ready for the glue factory. Do you even want him back next year? Of course not. I don't. It would be senseless especially if we have a new coaching staff, which we should. And for all this, we kicked to the gutter the kid we drafted out of Marshall U., who was a budding star in the league for us until he suffered those severe injuries which he battled back from to win the 2006 Comeback Player of the Year Award in the NFL. And how do we reward him? Kick him to the gutter to hand over $12 million to this idiot Farve who completely screwed over his one team who he spent his 16-year Hall of Fame career with. He is our Roger Clemens, sans the steroids. He'll never be Jet in my world while Pennington will always be a Jet.

Look, I'm not saying that the year has not been a function of the poor coaching staff we have. It clearly has - and on both sides of the lines of scrimmage. So, then maybe Pennington performance last year was more a function of the coaching staff rather than his alleged physical limitations ..... because he's performing the fcck out the limitations this year with the Fins.

[TKF]

F Mangini and the rest of his staff. They stink. They never should have gotten rid of Pennington for Farve. Now Chad is going to break his past personal record for total passing yards in a season and we now have the QB who, admittedly, can't throw anymore.

We're not going to make the playoffs. Farve will now retire - who wants him back anyhow? And Mangini and his staff should go too. Bring in Bill Cowher (assuming you can get him to come here and fix this mess).

I've been a Jets fan since '67. I remember watching the Super Bowl III. I can't take this shytt. So, I'm rooting for Chad and Miami to come into Giants Stadium and rock our world. I hope Chad throws for 400 yards and 4 TDs.

wingy, I feel your pain, and I have been a jet fan since 80, not as long as you, but I feel your pain.. Chad was not going to lead the jets anywhere, we have been down this road with him before, he is not a cold weather QB... The problem is not Favre, but the coaching has been horrible. Just horrible.... No other way to explain it... Mangini cost us the season by getting outcoached every single week..

Yo Teke. You say that Chad wasn't going to lead us anywhere but look where he's leading Mihyami, menk (spanish for "man"). The Fins are going to win the Division and it's not because of the warm weather. What about that other Miami team that went undefeated? I'm sure they didn't play all there games at Joe Roby. Anyhow, Pennington has the second best quarterback efficiency rating in the AFC this year behind Philip Rivers. He's throwing the shytt out of the ball while Farve is admitting to the press that he "doesn't have it anymore." And he doesn't. Look at Farve's passing ratings over the past 4 weeks ... they're pathetic. He's done. Over the hill. Ready for the glue factory. Do you even want him back next year? Of course not. I don't. It would be senseless especially if we have a new coaching staff, which we should. And for all this, we kicked to the gutter the kid we drafted out of Marshall U., who was a budding star in the league for us until he suffered those severe injuries which he battled back from to win the 2006 Comeback Player of the Year Award in the NFL. And how do we reward him? Kick him to the gutter to hand over $12 million to this idiot Farve who completely screwed over his one team who he spent his 16-year Hall of Fame career with. He is our Roger Clemens, sans the steroids. He'll never be Jet in my world while Pennington will always be a Jet.

Look, I'm not saying that the year has not been a function of the poor coaching staff we have. It clearly has - and on both sides of the lines of scrimmage. So, then maybe Pennington performance last year was more a function of the coaching staff rather than his alleged physical limitations ..... because he's performing the fcck out the limitations this year with the Fins.

I feel you wingy, but what I mean about chad is that we know what chad can give us when he is at his best. I think at his best we were a 10 win team, but a team that could be stopped in the playoffs because our QB could not throw the ball deep. We became to predictable.. The AFC is down this year, the jets could have easily been 12-4. chad has done real well in miami, but with the jets, he was not leading us to a superbowl, actually he was not guaranteed to win the starting job over Kellen clemens... Miami is coached real well, and chad is definately benefiting.... Lets be real, chad was on thin ice here even before brett even left the packers....