The Oakland Raiders 2015 Draft Thread

Post #21 » by **FNQ** » Tue Apr 7, 2015 10:16 pm

Dante Fowler is convinced he'll be selected 3rd by the Jags, meaning one of Big Cat Williams or Mariota will be there at 4.

The more I look into Williams though, the less impressed I am. He seems like a long-term prospect more than anything, albeit with massive upside. He's a better 3-4 end, and run defender, than a 4-3 DT/interior pass rusher. Has an amazing skillset though

Quake Griffin · Post #22 » by **Quake Griffin** » Thu Apr 9, 2015 2:47 pm

^^^
and I'm worried about his shoulder surgery.
didn't bench at the combine IIRC. He's athletic as hell for his size but I dunno if he has the devastating strength I'd like at the position.

Walterfootball (not gospel) said that the media loves Leonard Williams more than teams actually do.
I wouldn't be surprised if he actually fell a little in the draft….to like 5 or 6…nothing crazy.

falling in love with the Cleveland idea more and more (not the one Williamson talked about).
Would rather draft two solid players at 12 and 19 + a late rounder than roll the dice on a bust at 4.

GoRapstheoriginal · Post #23 » by **GoRapstheoriginal** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:32 pm

http://espn.go.com/blog/oakland-raiders ... ft-targets

Post #24 » by **FNQ** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:00 pm

Here's the thing: I agree with Riddick on all counts. Cooper is an amazing prospect, and an A+ WR. He's, in my mind, a far far far safer bet than White or Parker. And Big Cat Williams is raw, and does project as only a 2 down player. But here's what he leaves out:

Cooper is a Sr, playing a position that has a strong # of finds in the later rounds. Cooper HAS to be great immediately, because the skillset he has is pretty maxxed out. If he doesn't come into the league strong, the odds that he ever becomes great are pretty slim. He's not going to get taller or faster, and his signature is crisp route running.

Meanwhile, Williams is a 20 y/o soph who's big knock is playing too upright (viable criticism, FWIW) and that he isn't as strong as his comparison, Richard Seymour. My problem with that? Seymour played college through his Sr year. He got that grown man strength that players do in their 20-23 y/o years, and was ready to be a force the second he stepped on the field.

So IMO, if you're looking for immediate returns, if you are looking to save your job, and if you are looking to impress casual/fantasy football fans, take Cooper. If you are looking long-term, if you are looking for a true impact player, someone who really could become the best defensive lineman in the league one day, you take Big Cat.

tl;dr - Riddick is right, but only for the short-term. This team doesn't need a WR as much as it needs a true gamechanging talent, and Big Cat provides that opportunity more than Cooper does.

Neddy · Post #25 » by **Neddy** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:31 am

FNQ wrote:Here's the thing: I agree with Riddick on all counts. Cooper is an amazing prospect, and an A+ WR. He's, in my mind, a far far far safer bet than White or Parker. And Big Cat Williams is raw, and does project as only a 2 down player. But here's what he leaves out:

Cooper is a Sr, playing a position that has a strong # of finds in the later rounds. Cooper HAS to be great immediately, because the skillset he has is pretty maxxed out. If he doesn't come into the league strong, the odds that he ever becomes great are pretty slim. He's not going to get taller or faster, and his signature is crisp route running.

Meanwhile, Williams is a 20 y/o soph who's big knock is playing too upright (viable criticism, FWIW) and that he isn't as strong as his comparison, Richard Seymour. My problem with that? Seymour played college through his Sr year. He got that grown man strength that players do in their 20-23 y/o years, and was ready to be a force the second he stepped on the field.

So IMO, if you're looking for immediate returns, if you are looking to save your job, and if you are looking to impress casual/fantasy football fans, take Cooper. If you are looking long-term, if you are looking for a true impact player, someone who really could become the best defensive lineman in the league one day, you take Big Cat.

tl;dr - Riddick is right, but only for the short-term. This team doesn't need a WR as much as it needs a true gamechanging talent, and Big Cat provides that opportunity more than Cooper does.

i agree.

Jerry Rice was a late first rounder, Cris Carter was a fourth rounder. WRs don't have to be picked a top 7 pick like Tim Brown to be a HOF type of a player. I think Amare will be a safe pick, like when you are applying to college, you have a "safe" school in your back pocket, but only people who choose those safe schools are the ones who didn't get in to their "dream" school. I would prefer that we try to hit the "Home Run" player with our 4th, but if not trade down for more picks to fill more holes.

frankly, I never thought Leonard would even be available til the 4th, and now people saying he is raw, falling from being called universally the best player in the draft, i think is laughable. he is a DL player who can't even legally buy himself a drink. he can afford to be a little raw and still be great.

Quake Griffin · Post #26 » by **Quake Griffin** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:50 pm

The mocks are still all over the damn place so I can't settle my heart can't settle on anything.

I'll just give you my dream scenario as of April 11, 2015.

4th to Cleveland for 12, 19 and 147 (whichever one)?
Trade 12 and 147 to get pack into the top 10.

Top 10: Scherff
19: Dupree…Oddly enough. I've seen him mocked in the 20s.
35: DGB…of course if like FNQ said that woman/stairs incident wasn't true/ what it was made out to be.

boom we run.
boom we rush the passer.
boom possible best WR in the draft.

Neddy · Post #27 » by **Neddy** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:29 am

Quake Griffin wrote:The mocks are still all over the damn place so I can't settle my heart can't settle on anything.

I'll just give you my dream scenario as of April 11, 2015.

4th to Cleveland for 12, 19 and 147 (whichever one)?
Trade 12 and 147 to get pack into the top 10.

Top 10: Scherff
19: Dupree…Oddly enough. I've seen him mocked in the 20s.
35: DGB…of course if like FNQ said that woman/stairs incident wasn't true/ what it was made out to be.

boom we run.
boom we rush the passer.
boom possible best WR in the draft.

I think DGB is a top 25 pick. if Winston after all of his extracurricular activities and still be considered the #1, DGB surely can muster being a top 25. he just simply won't be a Raider, not after Fred's kid getting killed.

so any validity of the Fins coming after our pick?

Post #28 » by **FNQ** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:24 pm

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... kseer-2015

Love this. Dupree would be a fantastic value at 12. There's no way he's lasting til 19, and there's not even a great chance he's there at 12.

BTW, don't love Schreff, who might turn out to be a G instead of a T.

Quake Griffin · Post #29 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:42 pm

FNQ wrote:http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... kseer-2015

Love this. Dupree would be a fantastic value at 12. There's no way he's lasting til 19, and there's not even a great chance he's there at 12.

BTW, don't love Schreff, who might turn out to be a G instead of a T.

That's what I want Scherff for…so he can be a G.
He's a monster in the run game. He's too slow for T. I'd only want him there in spot duty in case of injury.

I dunno what to say on Dupree.
I've just seen him mocked as high as 8 and low as 22.
He could end up being the best pass rusher out of all of those guys and he has the size of a 4-3 DE unlike some of the other guys in this draft.

or go

12: Scherff
19: WR….Strong?
35: UCLA DE Ocjcnjwenj Onejrjhewn

that's another good look imo.

P.S.
Todd McShay just said he'd pick Amari Cooper if he had to choose a can't miss superstar in this draft.

Post #30 » by **FNQ** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:20 pm

I'm not a fan of drafting Gs in the 1st.. always quality in the later rounds there.

Dupree's critiques have him as too straight-line... I agree, but if you're that fast, you can get away with that.

Also not a fan of Strong, at least for us. Too much of a possession guy, we'd need a complete receiver (Cooper, White) or a speed guy (Perriman, Smith, Dorsett).

As for Diggy (the UCLA DE, health permitting, I like him, but probably not unless we trade back in the 2nd. I've actually seen him in person, and came away underwhelmed. If I were ranking all of the DEs in the draft (or in Diggy's case, edge rushers) I'd probably have him in the 8-10 range. As EDGE guys I prefer Gregory, Beasley, Dupree, Preston Smith, Eli Harold, Nate Orchard, Ray.. maybe even Markus Golden over him. If we're including DEs, add Armstead and Fowler to the list.

b-boy2020 · Post #31 » by **b-boy2020** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:33 am

4. Amari Cooper WR Alabama

35. Owamagbe Odighizuwa DE UCLA

68. Michael Bennett DT Ohio State

102. Derron Smith FS Fresno State

140. Mitch Morse OG Missouri

179. Erick Dargan SS Oregon

221. Jeremiah Poutasi OG Utah

Post #32 » by **FNQ** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:32 pm

Not bad, but a few questions:

How did picks 1-3 shake out? I'm not 100% against drafting Cooper 4th, it would just take a very unlikely scenario. That scenario being Mariota going 1st, Williams and Beasley going 2nd and 3rd, and no one willing to trade up for Winston or Cooper.

Do you think Bennett is there in the 3rd? I've seen him mocked into most 2nds, and one in the 1st.

Why 2 Gs? Keep in mind that Khalif Barnes is a do-it-all OL, so he can play anywhere. But we already have one G position locked down for the next few years, so why are we spending 2 picks on G?

Post #33 » by **FNQ** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:51 pm

Pulled this from Walterfootball's mock draft:

image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/ ... b_logo.gif
Atlanta Falcons: Alvin Dupree, DE/OLB, Kentucky
image: http://walterfootball.com/college/Kentucky_logo.gif

The run on edge rushers continues, which is predictable, but some might be surprised by Alvin Dupree over Randy Gregory. After all, Gregory was a popular top-three pick in 2015 NFL Mock Drafts prior to the NFL Combine, so how could he slip past the Falcons, who are desperate for a pass-rusher?

Well, Gregory had a poor showing at the NFL Combine, for one. Gregory then tested positive for marijuana, making things worse. There's also his weight loss, and something else that the media is unaware of (but teams are). Dupree, meanwhile, has enjoyed an exceptional draft season. He's also exactly what Atlanta is looking for in terms of an explosive defensive player.

How far does Gregory drop?

b-boy2020 · Post #34 » by **b-boy2020** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:11 am

FNQ wrote:Not bad, but a few questions:

How did picks 1-3 shake out? I'm not 100% against drafting Cooper 4th, it would just take a very unlikely scenario. That scenario being Mariota going 1st, Williams and Beasley going 2nd and 3rd, and no one willing to trade up for Winston or Cooper.

1. Jameis Winston - Tampa Bay Buccaneers --> Winston staying in Florida while the Bucs need a QB bad. It works.
2. Leonard Williams - Tennessee Titans--> Titans will ride the Mettenberger train at QB and select the best player available.
3. Vic Beasley - Jacksonville Jaguars--->Jags need a pass rusher and Vic Beasley will fit this need.

The Raiders may very well start a bidding war for the best deal to trade their pick. I'm with you on that possible scenario.

FNQ wrote:Do you think Bennett is there in the 3rd? I've seen him mocked into most 2nds, and one in the 1st.

Wishful thinking on my part I guess. If he isn't there in the 3rd then...

Xavier Cooper DT

FNQ wrote:Why 2 Gs? Keep in mind that Khalif Barnes is a do-it-all OL, so he can play anywhere. But we already have one G position locked down for the next few years, so why are we spending 2 picks on G?

Improve depth. You can never have enough lineman.

Quake Griffin · Post #35 » by **Quake Griffin** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:15 pm

I imagine Gregory going to the bottom of the 1st.

Merrill Hodge is meh on Leonard Williams and big on Fowler.
Last year he was meh on Clowney and big on Mack.
Says he would take Fowler over him….went into his usual thing about skill set etc. etc.

Post #36 » by **FNQ** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:24 pm

b-boy2020 wrote:
1. Jameis Winston - Tampa Bay Buccaneers --> Winston staying in Florida while the Bucs need a QB bad. It works.
2. Leonard Williams - Tennessee Titans--> Titans will ride the Mettenberger train at QB and select the best player available.
3. Vic Beasley - Jacksonville Jaguars--->Jags need a pass rusher and Vic Beasley will fit this need.

The Raiders may very well start a bidding war for the best deal to trade their pick. I'm with you on that possible scenario.

Cool. Reason I ask is because the Fins are rumored to want to trade up for Cooper, and I tend to think the 2016 draft will be much more top heavy than this one. If you can move down for their #14, 2nd rounder, and 2016 1st rounder (roughly what the Bills paid for Watkins), I'd be all over that. Ditto for Mariota, who's on so many radars lately.

Wishful thinking on my part I guess. If he isn't there in the 3rd then...

Xavier Cooper DT

Have heard of him, not seen him. Profiles nicely on draft scouting pages. Looks to be a 2 down guy though... my personal preference is David Parry, NT from Stanford. The guy is built like a house. He almost looks cartoonish, and should be drafted in the 6th/7th/UDFA:

Post #37 » by **FNQ** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:26 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:I imagine Gregory going to the bottom of the 1st.

Merrill Hodge is meh on Leonard Williams and big on Fowler.
Last year he was meh on Clowney and big on Mack.
Says he would take Fowler over him….went into his usual thing about skill set etc. etc.

I get that. Hoge likes to play it safe. Fowler is a no frills, jack-of-all-trades type DE. Some run D, some sacks, some of everything. Big Cat still has some kinks to work out, but has mammoth upside that no one in this draft can touch. The more I look into Fowler, the more I wonder how he's jumped into top 5 consideration. I know no one wants to bust a top 5 pick.. but no one looks at a juicy, middle of the plate 88mph fastball and says "man, I hope I hit a single with that!"

Even if Big Cat 'busts', he's still a great run defender. So with that kind of floor, no reason to not pick him. Exactly the type of calculated risk we need.

GoRapstheoriginal · Post #38 » by **GoRapstheoriginal** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:15 pm

http://espn.go.com/blog/oakland-raiders ... s-in-draft

Post #39 » by **FNQ** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:17 pm

Papa on the radio is saying he'd trade the Raiders 2nd for AP... He's got some Al in him.

Would be nice, but only in the short term, and Reggie is not building that way.. I'm starting to understand why Papa hates Reggie so much now. He pines for the day of trying hard every season, and not worrying about the long-term. Our current GM does the opposite of that.. though in a year or two, Papa's point will be very valid if Reggie is playing it the same way.

Quake Griffin · Post #40 » by **Quake Griffin** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:19 am

FNQ wrote:Papa on the radio is saying he'd trade the Raiders 2nd for AP... He's got some Al in him.

Would be nice, but only in the short term, and Reggie is not building that way.. I'm starting to understand why Papa hates Reggie so much now. He pines for the day of trying hard every season, and not worrying about the long-term. Our current GM does the opposite of that.. though in a year or two, Papa's point will be very valid if Reggie is playing it the same way.

No thanks.
I can hear the fan base groaning and any fan who was in support of this move, backing WAY OFF OF IT and pretending they never suggested such a thing, if it didn't pan out.

Looking back on it, Suh would have been the biggest oddball in any locker room. We're a young, rebuilding team and here's the $114 million man. I don't see Peterson any differently.

We're one to two draft classes away…no use in waisting a pick on a guy who will be gone in 2 years.