Sio Moore placed on the PUP list

[Quake Griffin]

http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/Linebacker-Sio-Moore-Placed-on-PUP-List/7850e6c7-354a-434b-81d2-c97e7972a175

good thing we were insistent on drafting LBs this draft.

[benchmobbin02]

I know, right. And all reports are that Ray Ray "I'mStrong" Armstrong is killing it in workouts. Hopefully we found a steal in him. A guy that can spot start and be a lynchpin in our special teams unit.

[FNQ]

I'm starting to believe Sio doesnt see the field this year. Ray Ray can take his spot capably, IMO. But I'd like to see Valles try. I never mind getting young guys playing time in seasons that dont mean much, because that increases the likelihood of a camp battle the next season, and thats when you get guys pressing each other to be good.

[benchmobbin02]

That was quick. Your calling his season already! Before training camp. HAHA...Med staff says he'll be back soon. I expect to see him sometime this off season and then he gets one preseason game and shuts it down til opening day. Ray Ray has looked good but still needs to earn it in game situations (which is where he struggles with discipline). Smith is the real fall back and Ray Ray is the optimistic young guy. As long as we have options, its a good thing.

[FNQ]

That was quick. Your calling his season already! Before training camp. HAHA...Med staff says he'll be back soon. I expect to see him sometime this off season and then he gets one preseason game and shuts it down til opening day. Ray Ray has looked good but still needs to earn it in game situations (which is where he struggles with discipline). Smith is the real fall back and Ray Ray is the optimistic young guy. As long as we have options, its a good thing.

Yeah.. My job is sports medicine, specifically rehab. Been cluing the W's board in on injuries since day 1. I know people. Sio has an injury that is significant and his lack of progress (in public) would indicate he's not coming back soon.

If he gets a preseason game in, it would be a very quick turnaround, and we'd be fortunate. A much more realistic prognosis is short term IR, if he can avoid a 2nd surgery.

But who knows? Pump a man full of enough meds and they can play through lots of things, like scar tissue. In some cases it can even help. But 6 months after surgery and there are still issues? Not running? I'd say thats a cause to worry

[benchmobbin02]

That was quick. Your calling his season already! Before training camp. HAHA...Med staff says he'll be back soon. I expect to see him sometime this off season and then he gets one preseason game and shuts it down til opening day. Ray Ray has looked good but still needs to earn it in game situations (which is where he struggles with discipline). Smith is the real fall back and Ray Ray is the optimistic young guy. As long as we have options, its a good thing.

Yeah.. My job is sports medicine, specifically rehab. Been cluing the W's board in on injuries since day 1. I know people. Sio has an injury that is significant and his lack of progress (in public) would indicate he's not coming back soon.

If he gets a preseason game in, it would be a very quick turnaround, and we'd be fortunate. A much more realistic prognosis is short term IR, if he can avoid a 2nd surgery.

But who knows? Pump a man full of enough meds and they can play through lots of things, like scar tissue. In some cases it can even help. But 6 months after surgery and there are still issues? Not running? I'd say thats a cause to worry

I don't think it's that serious, if the med staff has stated that he''ll be back soon. But like you said "who knows". Definitely not us, we only get sparse and vague reports in the media. We'll have to wait and see.

[benchmobbin02]

That was quick. Your calling his season already! Before training camp. HAHA...Med staff says he'll be back soon. I expect to see him sometime this off season and then he gets one preseason game and shuts it down til opening day. Ray Ray has looked good but still needs to earn it in game situations (which is where he struggles with discipline). Smith is the real fall back and Ray Ray is the optimistic young guy. As long as we have options, its a good thing.

Yeah.. My job is sports medicine, specifically rehab. Been cluing the W's board in on injuries since day 1. I know people. Sio has an injury that is significant and his lack of progress (in public) would indicate he's not coming back soon.

If he gets a preseason game in, it would be a very quick turnaround, and we'd be fortunate. A much more realistic prognosis is short term IR, if he can avoid a 2nd surgery.

But who knows? Pump a man full of enough meds and they can play through lots of things, like scar tissue. In some cases it can even help. But 6 months after surgery and there are still issues? Not running? I'd say thats a cause to worry

http://www.raiders.com/media-vault/videos/Sio-Moore-Returns-to-Practice/d30e248a-81c7-452a-abbe-4243a0e384f9

YEAH BABY! He's FOCUSED...MAN!

[FNQ]

I hope it's worth it. There's no way he healed it naturally. At least we got Malcolm Smith in case

[benchmobbin02]

I hope it's worth it. There's no way he healed it naturally. At least we got Malcolm Smith in case

"There's no way he healed it naturally." - What other way would he have healed after surgery?

[FNQ]

Concentrated cortisone steroid shots are the standard. But from going to not running to practicing in the course of one week makes me (and others here) believe he was given a painkiller injection, which is unfortunately too common in the NFL. Short term fix, long term problem. Especially at major joint points like hip.

[benchmobbin02]

Concentrated cortisone steroid shots are the standard. But from going to not running to practicing in the course of one week makes me (and others here) believe he was given a painkiller injection, which is unfortunately too common in the NFL. Short term fix, long term problem. Especially at major joint points like hip.

Just because he wasn't running in practice doesn't mean he couldn't. We don't know what surgery he had, what his recovery or rehab process was, how his body handled the healing process and so on and so forth. We don't know these things because teams only give vague info on injuries to protect the players and team interest (and sometime false info).

I think I'll trust the team med staff that he is ready to strap it up. If they wanna be cautious with him while in practice then that's cool but to assume he was given a painkiller to practice (especially when so much more is known now about the effects of said painkiller injections related to the past) is kinda reaching when we have no info to suggest that.

[FNQ]

Well let's be clear: they are the training staff, not medical staff. I doubt a medical staff signs off on this. I'd also hold off on the 'we' part of your first paragraph.

What's done is done and he's on the field. Hopefully it works out

[benchmobbin02]

Well let's be clear: they are the training staff, not medical staff. I doubt a medical staff signs off on this. I'd also hold off on the 'we' part of your first paragraph.

What's done is done and he's on the field. Hopefully it works out

You don't think qualified medical professionals were consulted or are employed by the Raiders for just these situations. And they wouldn't be there to clear an important player in their foundation for his first practice of training camp after off-season surgery?

And by saying "we", you are implying that you know what surgery he had, correct? If so, please, let us know...

[FNQ]

You'd do well not to laugh, makes me less inclined to share.

Training staff: they are therapists. Their job is to get the players on the field, and keep them there. There is usually little concern for the long-term.

Medical staff: they are not with the team. They are contracted, and if they give news that the team doesn't like consistently, they go to another group. Again, the priority is to keep players on the field. But their approval is not required. The good thing about employing an entire staff is that you just need one doc to give the go-ahead out of a group of 50+.

However, there is one group that is in-between: the phyiscal therapy/rehab staff. And that's my wheelhouse, and these people have a lot of the same knowledge but are not consulted for diagnoses. While I know people from all 3 groups for 4 out of the 5 Bay Area teams - I don't know anyone who treats Sharks - I tend to mine info from the rehab people because a) they aren't bound by HIPAA as tightly, and can give vague details while not doing anything illegal and b) they will give you honest opinions that are not influenced by an ulterior motive. Blind belief in a med staff (or in your case, training staff) simply because they are one is not wise, but unfortunately is how a lot of athletes act. Look no farther than Andris Biedrins or David Lee to see how a neglectful staff that is looking to please its employers can have a terrible effect on someone. Or McFadden. Or Michael Bush. Or if you want to go back farther, Barrett Robbins, Lincoln Kennedy, Chaz Schilens, Charlie Garner, Tyvon Branch.. there are so many incidents of this.

I do know what kind of surgery, what kind of rehab.. a lot really. But its more crucial for my bovada account than net cred I usually share what I can, if I choose to.

Lastly, Sio is not by any means a foundation player. He's in one of 2 camp battles for starting positions (CB - Hayden/McGill, OLB - Sio/Ray Ray). He's shown to be average to below average thus far, needs to turn potential into production quick if he wants to keep his starting job. Which is probably a big reason as to why he's out there now. If he were truly a foundation piece, I dont think he's pushing this hard, as he would definitely get his job back when he's healthy.

DE: Mack
DT: Dan W
DT: Jelly
DE: Tuck
OLB: M. Smith
MLB: Lofton
OLB: Ray Ray / Sio
CB: McGill/Hayden
CB: Carrie
FS: Allen
SS: Woodson

[benchmobbin02]

You'd do well not to laugh, makes me less inclined to share.

Training staff: they are therapists. Their job is to get the players on the field, and keep them there. There is usually little concern for the long-term.

Medical staff: they are not with the team. They are contracted, and if they give news that the team doesn't like consistently, they go to another group. Again, the priority is to keep players on the field. But their approval is not required. The good thing about employing an entire staff is that you just need one doc to give the go-ahead out of a group of 50+.

However, there is one group that is in-between: the phyiscal therapy/rehab staff. And that's my wheelhouse, and these people have a lot of the same knowledge but are not consulted for diagnoses. While I know people from all 3 groups for 4 out of the 5 Bay Area teams - I don't know anyone who treats Sharks - I tend to mine info from the rehab people because a) they aren't bound by HIPAA as tightly, and can give vague details while not doing anything illegal and b) they will give you honest opinions that are not influenced by an ulterior motive. Blind belief in a med staff (or in your case, training staff) simply because they are one is not wise, but unfortunately is how a lot of athletes act. Look no farther than Andris Biedrins or David Lee to see how a neglectful staff that is looking to please its employers can have a terrible effect on someone. Or McFadden. Or Michael Bush. Or if you want to go back farther, Barrett Robbins, Lincoln Kennedy, Chaz Schilens, Charlie Garner, Tyvon Branch.. there are so many incidents of this.

I do know what kind of surgery, what kind of rehab.. a lot really. But its more crucial for my bovada account than net cred I usually share what I can, if I choose to.

Lastly, Sio is not by any means a foundation player. He's in one of 2 camp battles for starting positions (CB - Hayden/McGill, OLB - Sio/Ray Ray). He's shown to be average to below average thus far, needs to turn potential into production quick if he wants to keep his starting job. Which is probably a big reason as to why he's out there now. If he were truly a foundation piece, I dont think he's pushing this hard, as he would definitely get his job back when he's healthy.

DE: Mack
DT: Dan W
DT: Jelly
DE: Tuck
OLB: M. Smith
MLB: Lofton
OLB: Ray Ray / Sio
CB: McGill/Hayden
CB: Carrie
FS: Allen
SS: Woodson

Well, you're still not sharing and that is the basis for your whole argument. Saying you have knowledge that makes your argument credible but choosing not to share because of money HURTS your credibility even more then if you hadn't claimed to have the info. Proof is in the pudding. Until then you're just a guy typing his opinion. I deal with too many liars and embellish artist daily to just believe because you wrote a paragraph that could have been researched on bing.

To be clear, the things you say do lend to the fact that you could have experience in the field. I won't deny that but to what extent is the unknown. As you can tell, I'm a cynical guy haha. Also, I'm not asking for you to give up whatever info you think will hurt you with your sources. Just telling you why I have a hard time believing you without it.

[FNQ]

No worries, I'm not offended whatsoever. If you were from the W's board I might be.. you can ask them, I've broken tons of stuff for them for years.

I don't give tons of details because if I do, sources become more traceable and I might lose info entirely. I just post what I hear. Wouldnt ever post anything about a client I personally have either, though I'm now more on the supervisory end, which sucks. Working with clients always gave you the best info

Anyways, regardless of whether you believe specifics, the training staff/med staff up there isn't really opinion. That's pretty much how it goes. The Warriors had a med group called PAMG (Palo Alto Medical Group) that wound up 'botching' a bunch of diagnoses. I quote it because they probably were looking for the fastest way to get players back on the court.. anyways, when the new ownership came in, all of a sudden our players were healthier with a new medical group/staff. Curry's ankle became more stable, oft-injured Bogut has been stabilized, etc etc. Sports medicine is a really shady industry at the pro level

All that said if you prefer I didn't post it, no harm done here

[benchmobbin02]

No worries, I'm not offended whatsoever. If you were from the W's board I might be.. you can ask them, I've broken tons of stuff for them for years.

I don't give tons of details because if I do, sources become more traceable and I might lose info entirely. I just post what I hear. Wouldnt ever post anything about a client I personally have either, though I'm now more on the supervisory end, which sucks. Working with clients always gave you the best info

Anyways, regardless of whether you believe specifics, the training staff/med staff up there isn't really opinion. That's pretty much how it goes. The Warriors had a med group called PAMG (Palo Alto Medical Group) that wound up 'botching' a bunch of diagnoses. I quote it because they probably were looking for the fastest way to get players back on the court.. anyways, when the new ownership came in, all of a sudden our players were healthier with a new medical group/staff. Curry's ankle became more stable, oft-injured Bogut has been stabilized, etc etc. Sports medicine is a really shady industry at the pro level

All that said if you prefer I didn't post it, no harm done here

At no time did I say I prefer you didn't post it. I have no opinion either way because it has very little to no credibility in this issue. Even if you have or had access to the Dub's staff (which also could be question if anyone wanted to go back and look), that doesn't mean you have access or know the process of a certain player for the Raiders. Seems like I'm splitting hairs but in the terms in which I normally having to provide proof of fact and evidential integrity, it's pretty far off.

If time allows, I'll do some digging to see if I can come up with something more concrete.

[FNQ]

lol have fun finding out these answers

Either I'm right or one of the world's best guessers.. either way, I'll just keep it to my other NFL site. Hell I got free tickets to a game last season from them

[benchmobbin02]

lol have fun finding out these answers

Either I'm right or one of the world's best guessers.. either way, I'll just keep it to my other NFL site. Hell I got free tickets to a game last season from them

I'm good, I've learned enough from our posts to form an opinion. Enjoy your tickets.

[Neddy]

Well let's be clear: they are the training staff, not medical staff. I doubt a medical staff signs off on this. I'd also hold off on the 'we' part of your first paragraph.

What's done is done and he's on the field. Hopefully it works out

You don't think qualified medical professionals were consulted or are employed by the Raiders for just these situations. And they wouldn't be there to clear an important player in their foundation for his first practice of training camp after off-season surgery?

And by saying "we", you are implying that you know what surgery he had, correct? If so, please, let us know...

I might only be a dentist, but I know this topic is 100% correct on FNQ's side. you cannot rely on what the "training staff" tells the media. their interest is based on who pays their salary, and that is to put the product out on the field rather than park him on the sideline draining the payroll. who do you think were the ones giving local anesthetics to injured players through out the history of NFL? the player's orthopedic surgeons?