TC Depth Chart/battles

[FNQ]

QB: Carr / Ponder / McGloin / Fajardo
Battle: Fajardo v McGloin for 3rd string RB. Yawn. McGloin likely to take it considering we have no real money concerns and he knowns our system.

RB: Murray / Helu / Dyer / T. Jones / T. Rich
Battle: Dyer v. TRich for RB3. Have to assume Taiwan stays on for ST, so really TRich and Dyer are fighting for a roster spot. Dyer looking good, TRich still chunky. Dyer has the inside track despite TRich's gtd money

F-Back: Reece/Ozi

WR: Cooper / Crabtree / Streater / Holmes / Thompkins / Butler / Harper / Holliday*
Battle: Holmes v Thompkins v Butler v Harper for WR 4/5. Holliday likely earns a roster spot if he proves he can handle KR/PR return duties, if not, he's definitely out. I'd imagine Holmes and Butler win this, though Harper is a dark horse. Thompkins seems like the longshot.

TE: Walford / Rivera / Smith
Battle: all of them. I'd imagine that Rivera eventually tumbles to 3rd, with Walford being our dual threat and Smith being our in-line blocker/red zone guy. Smith looks like an OL, but he can catch a little bit too.

LT: Penn
LG: Gabe Jackson
C: Hudson
RG: Webb / Barnes / Feliciano
RT: Menelik / Howard / Barnes
Battle: RG and RT. Vic Tafur recently indicated that Howard is rolling with the backups, and that Webb is the starter at RG for now. Imagine it stays this way. Feliciano is too green, Barnes simply isn't good enough. Howard could challenge Menelik, but more likely, Menelik gets hurt and Howard sees the field that way. There are no spots open at LT/LG/C.

LE: Mack / Mario Edwards / CJ Wilson
Battle: Mack v Mario; Mario v. CJ. While it currently looks like Mack is going to play with his hand in the dirt, a great preseason from Mario can push him back to OLB. More likely, MEJ and CJ fight for rotational snaps at LE.

DT: Big Dan / Jelly / CJ Wilson / Lumpkin / McGee
Battle: Lumpkin v McGee for a roster spot. Lumpkin is the low upside guy who is below average but consistent. McGee is the high upside guy with motivational issues. Classic bottom of the roster battle.

RE: Tuck / MEJ / Mayowa / Autry / Harris
Battle: Mayowa v Autry v Harris for a roster spot. Money should be on Mayowa, familiar with Norton and showed flashes last year. Harris has upside but could be squadded again.

WLB: Ray Ray / Sio
Battle: Armstrong v Sio. Sio coming off major surgery, might take a while to be 100%. Ray Ray is impressing. Sio was bottom 5 in missed tackles last year, I'm betting Ray Ray gets the nod.

MLB: Lofton / Heeney / Shirley

SLB: M. Smith / Hadley / Ball

CB: Carrie / McGill / Hayden / McDonald / Chekwa
Battle: McGill v Hayden. Classic size v speed battle. Hayden has shown ace potential, but is not impressing in camp right now. McGill looked very slow last year, but is impressing in camp. McDonald is the wildcard but likely won't open the year starting. Could be by year's end though

FS: Allen / Ross / Dowling
Battle: Ross v J Dowling. I think both ultimately make the roster, as both can transition to SS if needed. Ross likely gets the nod due to experience and a good showing last year.

SS: Woodson / Asante / Ross / Ras-I Dowling
Battle: Asante v Ross v Ras-I. Asante way in the lead here, he's the only natural SS of the bunch. But he's so underwhelming that a strong TC/Preseason could unseat him.




I'll update this based on roster moves / reports from twitter.

[Neddy]

I think there is a chance T Rich gets cut before the season unless Murray gets injured during pre-season, and Harper makes the practice squad. I think Sio is rushing back not to give his starting position away to a threatening talent of Ray Ray but eventually gets hurt and out for season. I think DJ may still get labeled as a bust but proves to be an elite nickle back. Helu locks up the 3rd down back position, and by mid-season we play more 3-4 front with Mack as a primarily QB rushing outside LB and Malcome Smith becomes the second ILB next to Lofton.

other than that, we pretty much have the same depth chart.

[Twinkie defense]

Taiwan Jones bulked up and back at RB. Can he hold onto the ball?

Gabe Jackson killing it, he is part of the core - Mack/Carr/Jackson

[FNQ]

Taiwan will be a gadget player if he ever gets offensive touches, at best.

Gabe Holmes making noise too as a potential squadder, though ideally we just cut Rivera and put him on the squad.

Really doubt we play 3-4 due to our lack of ILB and our glut of interior linemen. Malcolm definitely profiles better as an OLB than ILB, as does Sio Moore. Maybe if MEJ shows out as someone who can get to the QB from the edge

[FNQ]

other than that, we pretty much have the same depth chart.

I dunno, I'm seeing 9 new starters (Cooper, Crabtree, Walford, Hudson, Webb, Big Dan, M. Smith, Lofton, Nate Allen).

10 if you count Murray
11 if you think Ray Ray starts over Sio (I do, Sio was a MT machine last year)
12 if McGill holds off Hayden

And I think every one of those (with Sio/RayRay and Hayden/McGill being TBD) are noticeable upgrades from last year, in addition to young players like Jelly, Carr, Mack, Carrie, and Gabe improving.

[FNQ]

Taiwan Jones bulked up and back at RB. Can he hold onto the ball?

Gabe Jackson killing it, he is part of the core - Mack/Carr/Jackson

If an LG is part of your core, there's a problem. He'd have to be Hutchison/Iupati elite to live up to that. Not saying he can't, but like Cs, its a merry-go-round of who does good to bad, with 'core' types remaining at the top. Alex Mack, Yanda, Mathis, Mangold, etc

Otherwise isn't Hudson part of the core too?

[Twinkie defense]

If the Raiders have to have a few yards and they can just power it in behind Jackson and Penn that is a great thing to have. Gabe is one of the best players at his position that the Raiders have, definitely on par with Iupati (if not better, Iupati has slipped, Gabe is on the rise). And Gabe is a young guy so you can lock up that position for years to come. That's why he is part of the core.

Hudson? Could be - think I would at least like to see him take a few live snaps for the Raiders though?

Looks like Menelik is going to get every opportunity at RT, he has been running with the starters.

[FNQ]

If the Raiders have to have a few yards and they can just power it in behind Jackson and Penn that is a great thing to have. Gabe is one of the best players at his position that the Raiders have, definitely on par with Iupati (if not better, Iupati has slipped, Gabe is on the rise). And Gabe is a young guy so you can lock up that position for years to come. That's why he is part of the core.

Hudson? Could be - think I would at least like to see him take a few live snaps for the Raiders though?

Looks like Menelik is going to get every opportunity at RT, he has been running with the starters.

That misses the point though.

Iupati WAS considered elite because he sat atop the LGs for a while. Thus, a core player even though he was at a highly replaceable position. Ditto Alex Mack, Yanda, Mangold, etc.. being at the top consistently makes you a core player. Gabe had a solid rookie year, and Hudson had a great year last year.. how is Gabe a core player if Huddy isn't?

[Neddy]

other than that, we pretty much have the same depth chart.

I dunno, I'm seeing 9 new starters (Cooper, Crabtree, Walford, Hudson, Webb, Big Dan, M. Smith, Lofton, Nate Allen).

10 if you count Murray
11 if you think Ray Ray starts over Sio (I do, Sio was a MT machine last year)
12 if McGill holds off Hayden

And I think every one of those (with Sio/RayRay and Hayden/McGill being TBD) are noticeable upgrades from last year, in addition to young players like Jelly, Carr, Mack, Carrie, and Gabe improving.

LOL i meant the depth chart you posted to start this thread is pretty much what i had in mind, not of the same depth chart from last year's.

[Neddy]

Taiwan Jones bulked up and back at RB. Can he hold onto the ball?

Gabe Jackson killing it, he is part of the core - Mack/Carr/Jackson

I still remember seeing his scout tapes of his eastern washington college footage and being blown away by his Barry Sanders like lateral movements. I wish nothing but the best for Taiwan Jones.

[Twinkie defense]

If the Raiders have to have a few yards and they can just power it in behind Jackson and Penn that is a great thing to have. Gabe is one of the best players at his position that the Raiders have, definitely on par with Iupati (if not better, Iupati has slipped, Gabe is on the rise). And Gabe is a young guy so you can lock up that position for years to come. That's why he is part of the core.

Hudson? Could be - think I would at least like to see him take a few live snaps for the Raiders though?

Looks like Menelik is going to get every opportunity at RT, he has been running with the starters.

That misses the point though.

Iupati WAS considered elite because he sat atop the LGs for a while. Thus, a core player even though he was at a highly replaceable position. Ditto Alex Mack, Yanda, Mangold, etc.. being at the top consistently makes you a core player. Gabe had a solid rookie year, and Hudson had a great year last year.. how is Gabe a core player if Huddy isn't?

Hudson comes in with blank slate - hopefully he becomes a Raiders centerpiece for many years.

[benchmobbin02]

If the Raiders have to have a few yards and they can just power it in behind Jackson and Penn that is a great thing to have. Gabe is one of the best players at his position that the Raiders have, definitely on par with Iupati (if not better, Iupati has slipped, Gabe is on the rise). And Gabe is a young guy so you can lock up that position for years to come. That's why he is part of the core.

Hudson? Could be - think I would at least like to see him take a few live snaps for the Raiders though?

Looks like Menelik is going to get every opportunity at RT, he has been running with the starters.

That misses the point though.

Iupati WAS considered elite because he sat atop the LGs for a while. Thus, a core player even though he was at a highly replaceable position. Ditto Alex Mack, Yanda, Mangold, etc.. being at the top consistently makes you a core player. Gabe had a solid rookie year, and Hudson had a great year last year.. how is Gabe a core player if Huddy isn't?

I think the point was that Gabe is part of our "YOUNG" Core. Carr Mack Cooper Carre Jackson Ellis Walford are all guys that have only been in the league for a year or two but will develop into the heart of this team. Of course a guy with that little experience isn't the core of a team but they will grow together into that.
With our main talented vets being Woodson Hudson Reece Tuck Penn Lofton and Barnes I think you can agree that the sooner the young guys develop and gain that status the better. The closest of the young guys to doing that are Mack Carr and Jackson. Stop freaking out and understand the spirit of what was being said.

[FNQ]

If the Raiders have to have a few yards and they can just power it in behind Jackson and Penn that is a great thing to have. Gabe is one of the best players at his position that the Raiders have, definitely on par with Iupati (if not better, Iupati has slipped, Gabe is on the rise). And Gabe is a young guy so you can lock up that position for years to come. That's why he is part of the core.

Hudson? Could be - think I would at least like to see him take a few live snaps for the Raiders though?

Looks like Menelik is going to get every opportunity at RT, he has been running with the starters.

That misses the point though.

Iupati WAS considered elite because he sat atop the LGs for a while. Thus, a core player even though he was at a highly replaceable position. Ditto Alex Mack, Yanda, Mangold, etc.. being at the top consistently makes you a core player. Gabe had a solid rookie year, and Hudson had a great year last year.. how is Gabe a core player if Huddy isn't?

I think the point was that Gabe is part of our "YOUNG" Core. Carr Mack Cooper Carre Jackson Ellis Walford are all guys that have only been in the league for a year or two but will develop into the heart of this team. Of course a guy with that little experience isn't the core of a team but they will grow together into that.
With our main talented vets being Woodson Hudson Reece Tuck Penn Lofton and Barnes I think you can agree that the sooner the young guys develop and gain that status the better. The closest of the young guys to doing that are Mack Carr and Jackson. Stop freaking out and understand the spirit of what was being said.

Yeah.. There's a pretty big difference in core players and young core. He said core, and who's locked up longer, paid more, and graded out higher than every player on our roster? Rodney Hudson.

And on what planet is Khalif Barnes a talented veteran. He's a guy who latched on to a terrible franchise and clung to roster life at the near minimum.

[benchmobbin02]

Fair enough. I include all those players in our core.

Barnes isn't an all-star or even a star but he is "talented" enough to started at 4 different spots on the o-line and to sign 7 one yr contracts with the same team thru several different head coaches. Every year we tried to replace him with a FA or a draft pick and he out played them for a roster spot and a lot of times a starting spot. He has played 10 years in the NFL. Has played 137 games and started 116 of them. EARTH is the planet that Khalif Barnes is a talented veteran. Maybe on your planet that doesn't qualify but here he has checked both boxes. Talented, check. Veteran, check.

[FNQ]

Per PFF, calling him below average would be generous. And while he has fended off draft picks, that may say more about our picks than him. I think the reason he keeps signing with us is because there's no market for him elsewhere. When you sign a 1m, 1 year deal about 2 months before free agency kicks off, that tells me a lot.

If he's considered part of our core at any level, I think that's a problem. But 'core' is one of those words that's indiviudally defined anyways. Like good, great, star, whatever.. If I'm thinking of core Raiders, I'm thinking who's gonna be here a while and be our most important guys: Cooper, Carr, Mack, Hudson, Gabe. I hope that Murray, Crabtree, Carrie, Jelly, Walford, Hayden, McGill and MEJ prove themselves, both on the field and contract-wise, to be part of that core as well.

[Quake Griffin]

I have no idea why we re-signed Khalif Barnes. I don't care how cheap his deal is. We don't need him here.


So far so good on the Crabtree signing?
I know there were tons of people who didn't like that one. Looks like he might have the best chemistry with Carr AT THIS POINT.

[benchmobbin02]

That misses the point though.

Iupati WAS considered elite because he sat atop the LGs for a while. Thus, a core player even though he was at a highly replaceable position. Ditto Alex Mack, Yanda, Mangold, etc.. being at the top consistently makes you a core player. Gabe had a solid rookie year, and Hudson had a great year last year.. how is Gabe a core player if Huddy isn't?

I think the point was that Gabe is part of our "YOUNG" Core. Carr Mack Cooper Carre Jackson Ellis Walford are all guys that have only been in the league for a year or two but will develop into the heart of this team. Of course a guy with that little experience isn't the core of a team but they will grow together into that.
With our main talented vets being Woodson Hudson Reece Tuck Penn Lofton and Barnes I think you can agree that the sooner the young guys develop and gain that status the better. The closest of the young guys to doing that are Mack Carr and Jackson. Stop freaking out and understand the spirit of what was being said.

Yeah.. There's a pretty big difference in core players and young core. He said core, and who's locked up longer, paid more, and graded out higher than every player on our roster? Rodney Hudson.

And on what planet is Khalif Barnes a talented veteran. He's a guy who latched on to a terrible franchise and clung to roster life at the near minimum.

Fair enough. I include all those players in our core.

Barnes isn't an all-star or even a star but he is "talented" enough to started at 4 different spots on the o-line and to sign 7 one yr contracts with the same team thru several different head coaches. Every year we tried to replace him with a FA or a draft pick and he out played them for a roster spot and a lot of times a starting spot. He has played 10 years in the NFL. Has played 137 games and started 116 of them. EARTH is the planet that Khalif Barnes is a talented veteran. Maybe on your planet that doesn't qualify but here he has checked both boxes. Talented, check. Veteran, check.

Per PFF, calling him below average would be generous. And while he has fended off draft picks, that may say more about our picks than him. I think the reason he keeps signing with us is because there's no market for him elsewhere. When you sign a 1m, 1 year deal about 2 months before free agency kicks off, that tells me a lot.

If he's considered part of our core at any level, I think that's a problem. But 'core' is one of those words that's indiviudally defined anyways. Like good, great, star, whatever.. If I'm thinking of core Raiders, I'm thinking who's gonna be here a while and be our most important guys: Cooper, Carr, Mack, Hudson, Gabe. I hope that Murray, Crabtree, Carrie, Jelly, Walford, Hayden, McGill and MEJ prove themselves, both on the field and contract-wise, to be part of that core as well.

Yeah, his 1 yr deals tell you a lot. Means they wanted to upgrade and find a younger better option. But still doesn't refute the fact that he is "talented" enough to start and resign 7 years in a row. Doesn't refute the fact that he is a 10 yr vet with 116 starts out of 137 games. Talented Veteran. I hope I don't have to break out dictionary definitions haha

I never said Barnes was a core player. Just a talented vet.

So Gabe Jackson is a part of our core, as is Hudson after he proves his loyalty with service, at least one season (I mean he is a former Quiff).

[Twinkie defense]

If you looked at how Raiders players rank at their positions, Mack and Gabe Jackson are probably our two best players. I give Carr a bit of a pass based on potential. And since the three of them are young guys the Raiders can lock up for the long haul, I call them our core. Hopefully as this season unfolds we'll learn there are a couple more guys who are part of the core.

[Twinkie defense]

If I'm thinking of core Raiders, I'm thinking who's gonna be here a while and be our most important guys: Cooper, Carr, Mack, Hudson, Gabe. I hope that Murray, Crabtree, Carrie, Jelly, Walford, Hayden, McGill and MEJ prove themselves, both on the field and contract-wise, to be part of that core as well.

Fair enough - obviously I have been a huge Cooper proponent - no one gets a grade from me until I see them take some snaps as a Raider though.

[FNQ]

Walford to return to practice today