DJ Hayden getting beat out by McGill

[Twinkie defense]

If that holds I think we can close the book on whether DJ is a bust.

[Quake Griffin]

who is reporting that?

do you mind posting the tweets/reports?

[Twinkie defense]

I heard it a week or so, and it was reported again today by people at Raiders camp, McGill is in with the starters and DJ is a reserve CB at camp. Of course that could change, but it does not bode well for DJ.

Carrie was an excellent pickup, and in limited minutes last season I thought McGill looked good. CB may not be an area of strength for the Raiders though - better hope we can get a rush on via the front.


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[Twinkie defense]

Not where I got it but here is a source:

"Hayden is an immensely talented cornerback -– he has solid footwork and speed to spare -- yet remains behind second-year players Keith McGill and TJ Carrie in the pecking order."

http://www.csnbayarea.com/raiders/mckenzie-2015-pivotal-year-raiders-cb-dj-hayden

And here is a good one:

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2015/8/3/9092517/raiders-training-camp-day-4-wrap-dj-hayden-falls-behind-in-cornerback


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[Neddy]

McGill has a great size, and Hayden has the agility to keep up with a slot receiver while being injury prone so this move could lower his risk. I personally am a bigger fan of McGill so I don't hate this news one bit.

[Quake Griffin]

Del Rio had positive things to say about Hayden yesterday.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were a tactic to motivate him in what is his most important year as a Raider.

[FNQ]

Del Rio had positive things to say about Hayden yesterday.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were a tactic to motivate him in what is his most important year as a Raider.

I dont think it is. From what I hear, McGill is making plays that Hayden isn't. Hayden definitely has the tools, its just converting it into results. I remember a blurb from Tafur (be it tweet or article) saying that Hayden has a tough time playing smart, and is relying mostly on his tools to do well. Which in year 3, isn't great. However, if/when we generate a pass rush, a player like Hayden becomes immensely more valuable as an athletic risk-taker (currently). He has the speed and length to be a top CB, but the IQ part of the game is coming along slow, if at all

FWIW, McGill was terrible in limited run last year, but is apparently now showing out.. with his size, that's great news for us. Maybe he's slimmed down and gotten quicker - he must have if he's keeping up w/the route runners Crabtree and Cooper. I'm also a big fan of our 7th rd pick Dexter McDonald, who's a prototypical physical specimen for outside CB.

[Quake Griffin]

Say it isn't so. Was hoping that the kid could be at least serviceable.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/raiders/raiders-practice-5-first-unit-o-line-unchanged-early
this article (which contains the link to twink's article) says he's taking some first team reps over McGill.

Whatever. I'm not married to the idea of Hayden...just hoped if he wouldn't turn out to be a star, he would at least just be some what of a solid corner and we'd fix the rest with pass rush.



p.s.
https://vine.co/v/eH6bYKta1WU
btw, Coop is sick AF.
McGill must be performing much better than this vine on average.

[FNQ]

Say it isn't so. Was hoping that the kid could be at least serviceable.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/raiders/raiders-practice-5-first-unit-o-line-unchanged-early
this article (which contains the link to twink's article) says he's taking some first team reps over McGill.

Whatever. I'm not married to the idea of Hayden...just hoped if he wouldn't turn out to be a star, he would at least just be some what of a solid corner and we'd fix the rest with pass rush.



p.s.
https://vine.co/v/eH6bYKta1WU
btw, Coop is sick AF.
McGill must be performing much better than this vine on average.

Because of his natural gifts, Hayden will always be serviceable. For all the complaining about him here (lol) he's actually been solid between the whistles. And that's 100% due to physical gifts. I do imagine that the benching is a motivational ploy to get him to stop using the gifts and really learn what he needs to, to get to the next level. But if it doesnt work, you have a serviceable #2 CB/slot CB. Not what you want from a 1st rounder in any draft, but calling him a bust reeks of trying too hard. Especially with how the top half of that draft has turned out

And YIKES at Cooper. I'm sorry for ever saying I wanted Big Cat over him. This kid is going to be our next Tim Brown. McGill was in quicksand there.

[Quake Griffin]

Say it isn't so. Was hoping that the kid could be at least serviceable.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/raiders/raiders-practice-5-first-unit-o-line-unchanged-early
this article (which contains the link to twink's article) says he's taking some first team reps over McGill.

Whatever. I'm not married to the idea of Hayden...just hoped if he wouldn't turn out to be a star, he would at least just be some what of a solid corner and we'd fix the rest with pass rush.



p.s.
https://vine.co/v/eH6bYKta1WU
btw, Coop is sick AF.
McGill must be performing much better than this vine on average.

Because of his natural gifts, Hayden will always be serviceable. For all the complaining about him here (lol) he's actually been solid between the whistles. And that's 100% due to physical gifts. I do imagine that the benching is a motivational ploy to get him to stop using the gifts and really learn what he needs to, to get to the next level. But if it doesnt work, you have a serviceable #2 CB/slot CB. Not what you want from a 1st rounder in any draft, but calling him a bust reeks of trying too hard. Especially with how the top half of that draft has turned out

And YIKES at Cooper. I'm sorry for ever saying I wanted Big Cat over him. This kid is going to be our next Tim Brown. McGill was in quicksand there.

He could always drive 143 MPH on the highway….
with a loaded gun…
with marijuana in the car…

.
.
.
.
with a 12 year old in the car.

[FNQ]

On cue, Hayden with a good day, capped by back to back plays where he broke up a catch and then picked Carr. Hopefully this builds momentum.

On the flipside, Musgrave was really disappointed with the offense today.

[Quake Griffin]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ThompsonScribe/status/630189531728228352[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BairCSN/status/630189717594619904[/tweet]

[benchmobbin02]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ThompsonScribe/status/630189531728228352[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BairCSN/status/630189717594619904[/tweet]

Cooper has been making McGill look like a high school-er all camp. At some point we'll see if this is just Cooper's footwork and route suave is that good or these two corners aren't ready for a #1 WR.

[FNQ]

Silver lining for me is that Cooper is a refined WR and Hayden is a toolsy CB that's been inconsistent. That said, our DB corps (S too) does not look good and needs to be addressed. We need not just Mack, but others like MEJ, Tuck, Malcolm Smith, and our massive DTs to apply QB pressure to have any chance against the pass this year

[benchmobbin02]

Silver lining for me is that Cooper is a refined WR and Hayden is a toolsy CB that's been inconsistent. That said, our DB corps (S too) does not look good and needs to be addressed. We need not just Mack, but others like MEJ, Tuck, Malcolm Smith, and our massive DTs to apply QB pressure to have any chance against the pass this year

It's still training camp, our secondary has had ups and downs but that is to be expected. They are young and/or new together. Woodson and Woodson still have time to refine their play and get them system ready. Of course, we need more than Mack to apply pressure. But I'm not counting out our backend just yet. I believe Carrie will really step up vs the cream of the WR crop, McGill will be the #2 and Hayden will be #3 and slot/nickel corner. Think Ross will play a lot in run/heavy situations and have another great year. Charles will lead once again in picks and big tackles. Allen will be a one yr guy and probably get hurt at some point. We'll draft his possible replacement high next yr.

[Quake Griffin]

Didn't know where to put this.
Good bump at the line if you ask me.

Say something about the kid though….

[FNQ]

Neiko Thorpe has been a name I've heard a lot in camp, in a good way. Maybe he's in the mix for snaps at CB? Could be our starting dime. I think McDonald gets special teamed or squadded this year, and competes next year. Surprised at how buried Brandian Ross has been after performing decently last year too.

[benchmobbin02]

If I were to grade that one rep, yeah good extension on the jam attempt but it put him on his heels and the battle was over. He was slow to turn his hips and then didn't get his head around fast enough and didn't keep his balance. Probably the hardest play for a corner to defend one on one.

But this is one rep with a 4th-6th level cb vs an elite route running wr. Those results are expected. Shows how strong Coop is and how sound his footwork is. Got the exact position he wanted and made the throw and catch easy.

I would expect Dockery to make the team as a slot corner due to quickness. May get beaten out by Hayden for the first off the bench but I think his experience helps him make the roster. Thorpe Dowling Mcdonald and Chekwa all fight for the last 2 spots.

Ross hasn't been buried, He is playing with the 2's like he should behind Woodson and Allen. He will probably get his shot again when one of them goes down, god forbid.

[FNQ]

Actually Ross has split with 2s and 3s, because Dowling apparently has been doing well. Vic Tafur called it out a few days back.

I'm actually more worried that Asante is getting the bulk of the SS work with the 2s, Ross is forgotten, and Dowling is being asked to play FS exclusively.. Woodson had the *worst* 2nd half of all qualified SS in the league last year after a fast start. Amazing career but it should be ending very soon, and we should have a capable backup plan. Ross looked much better than Asante last year.. I dunno. I'm not a fan of tht.

[benchmobbin02]

Dowling is a camp guy meaning he always makes some noise in camp but when the season comes along he is back on special teams or the practice squad and Ross is active. Don't expect to see anything different this year. Asante and Dowling are backups and special teams guys. Ross has the ability to spot start and play well. It shows in games and that will be the ultimate decider. Dowling is a FS because he lacks the bulk to play near the line. Asante comes into camp at 215 and has the nfl body of a SS. He played LB in college and moved to SS. He is the ideal SS if you go off of body type but Ross is more skilled and can play all positions in the secondary,SS FS slot and corner. That is why he moves around so much in camp.

Its the second week of camp with a new coaching staff that wants to generate competition at every position. Of course guys will be moving in and out of 1st, 2nd and 3rd teams unless they are established vets or stars. Even still they may get reps at other positions to cross train and to allow the coaches to get film on not only them in that position but how groups of players play together. Coaching in practice is a lot of trial and error. Especially when you have time to do it, like now in TRAINING CAMP.

Slow your roll on your slanderous d**n near traitorous talk about tha GOD - C.Wood! How old is Mr. Woodson? 38. Yet at 38, he managed to play 1143 snaps at SS, 4th highest in the league! Ross592 Young226 Branch195 Asante170 and Dowling13 all had under 600 snaps at S. I'm sure Woodson would love to gotten some help out there, he isn't 25 like these other guys. We didn't have the qualified bodies so he wore down in the middle of the season. Yeah, he missed 20 tackles last year. He also ranked 5th in tackles89 and Ints4. 1st in the league in ast tackles with 29. He was our last line of defense, defensive QB and was always around the ball and helping on gang tackles. You know football plays. We would have been the worst team in the league on defense without a doubt if Asante and Branch played those snaps at SS. Woodson kept us in some many games.

We hope Allen and Branch play well and are healthy most of the year so Woodson can be more efficient with rest and we can build for the future when he retires. I expect us to draft a SS pretty high next yr regardless of whether Woodson retires. Asante and Dowling are career subs.