Oakland (4th - AFCW) at Cleveland (3rd - AFCN)

Twinkie defense · Post #41 » by **Twinkie defense** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:45 pm

Ray Ray out of the base defense, Aldon Smith in, five man front - defense made some strides today.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Neddy · Post #42 » by **Neddy** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:28 pm

I was surprised how close the game had gotten after Cooper's fumble, but yeah we deserved to win this one. watching Carr/Cooper/Crabtree/Murray sorta reminded me of when the Cowboys were sporting the young crew of Aikman/Irvin/Harper/Smith to resurrect their franchise from the gutter under Jimmy Johnson. we even have rookie Clive and Reese who between them can be like Moose as well. and this thing we got going, between Mack and A Smith, is pretty damn exciting to watch. I can see us beating out the Bears next week and go 3-1 since Gannon era.

Twinkie defense · Post #43 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:33 am

TJ moved over to safety and Thorpe started at CB. Trying to find what works. Another D-Lineman down, looks like Autry time.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Post #44 » by **FNQ** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:42 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:TJ moved over to safety and Thorpe started at CB. Trying to find what works. Another D-Lineman down, looks like Autry time.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

That was a curveball. And the bad news is, they may stick to it. I thought it was fairly obvious that as soon as our pass rush got tired, the DBs were exposed pretty handily by a replacement level backup CB. Hayden was always close to plays, but still allowed them. Neiko was brutal, making a lot of mental mistakes out there. Amerson was OK, and I see why he was a 2nd round pick, but he had some issues out there too. I hope Carrie goes back to CB and we try Amerson or Thorpe at FS. Maybe even Hayden, who I think would benefit a lot from seeing the play in front of him a la Devin McCourty.

Post #45 » by **FNQ** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:49 pm

Great game for us. Our offense looked legit again, and will have another poor defense to take advantage of next week. Cooper is a stud. Carr making it look like the CIN game was an outlier. Murray broke out. Really like Seth Roberts as our WR3.

Defensively, we started out great but clearly got winded in the 2nd half. Mack was still living in the backfield but no one else really helped in the 2nd half. Aldon looked pretty good out there, made a few really sharp plays. Opposing TEs continue to maul us, as our cover LBs simply aren't good at it. Goal line stand was really impressive, and we did it without Jelly.

Beating CHI on the road would be huge for us, because even though they are in rough shape, a road win is never easy. Starting out 3-1 would be awesome, going into a huge home game with Denver. After that we're looking at: @SD, v NYJ, @PIT(no Ben), vs MIN. All of these games are winnable, and winning 3 of them would put us in really good shape for playoff contention.

Quake Griffin · Post #46 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:21 pm

Amen on road wins are never easy.
I never care how my teams come up with road wins as long as they come up with them.

Neiron Ball with the fumble recovery and the sack before Woodson came with the INT.

Oh…anybody pay attention to Mario Edwards yesterday? I didn't. If you did, tell me what you saw/ thought.

Twinkie defense · Post #47 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:03 pm

FNQ wrote:
Twinkie defense wrote:TJ moved over to safety and Thorpe started at CB. Trying to find what works. Another D-Lineman down, looks like Autry time.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

That was a curveball. And the bad news is, they may stick to it. I thought it was fairly obvious that as soon as our pass rush got tired, the DBs were exposed pretty handily by a replacement level backup CB.

I think it will be a situational thing, perhaps related to the five-man front. Five rushing and four DBs means two LBs covering the short routes - but at least one of them is not Ray Ray!

What did you think of the five-man front? It definitely helped jump-start the pass rush, though McCown was holding the ball a little longer than some QBs. I wonder what will happen to it when Aldon gets suspended - just plug in another pass rusher in that spot? Coverage from the secondary has been a problem, so maybe going with TJ as a cover safety along with two more CBs, and an amped up rush from a five-man front (and we've got a lot of pass-rushers) is a way to minimize the holes in the secondary. There will be receptions underneath (tight ends will continue to run wild), but receivers won't be going over the top, which is Norton's mantra.

FNQ wrote:Defensively, we started out great but clearly got winded in the 2nd half. Mack was still living in the backfield but no one else really helped in the 2nd half. Aldon looked pretty good out there, made a few really sharp plays. Opposing TEs continue to maul us, as our cover LBs simply aren't good at it. Goal line stand was really impressive, and we did it without Jelly.

Part of the problem was the offense stopped doing what was working so well for them through three quarters and started playing conservatively, playing not to lose. Step on their throats instead and the defense is not going to get so worn down, and the game doesn't end so close.

Seth Roberts needs to ensure he makes the catch - on one easy drop I think he was afraid he was about to get clobbered by Whitner. He's got the tools though, his catch in the back corner of the end zone was beautiful - and a beautiful pass from Carr.

How are you feeling about Carr now, and Carr vs. Bridgewater? By rating Carr is #8 in the League right now, even after the horrible Raiders debut vs. the Bengals. He is #9 in yards per attempt (Bridgewater is #23). He looks like such a good decision-maker to me, he gets rid of the ball fast (only sacked once, and that was when he ran out of bounds just short of the line of scrimmage). I'd have to think he is among the League leaders in pass plays that go over 20 yards [edit: according to NFL.com Raiders lead the League in pass plays over 20 yards, with 15. Vikings are 28th, with 6]. He is made for a spread offense and airing out the ball - usually with great touch. There's not many young QBs I would take over Carr.

Quake Griffin · Post #48 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:07 pm

FNQ ducked the post (or just missed it)…I'm joking around.

But Carr's throw to Seth in the back of the end zone is the same thing of beauty that Teddy threw over Hayden's head in the preseason.

Twinkie defense · Post #49 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:10 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:Oh…anybody pay attention to Mario Edwards yesterday? I didn't. If you did, tell me what you saw/ thought.

Did he play? I didn't notice him.

Malcolm Smith made an impact.

Quake Griffin · Post #50 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:16 pm

ill assume the fumble did Amari in. I still think he was good enough for the fumble to not put him into the negative.

Quake Griffin · Post #51 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:17 pm

oh…forgot Amari had the worst punt return of all time.

lmfao. that might have set him back too.

Twinkie defense · Post #52 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:46 pm

I gotta laugh at Amari Cooper's negative grade. Yes he had a bad punt return and a fumble, and he did not get into the end zone, but without Amari we don't win that game.

Post #53 » by **FNQ** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:58 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:
What did you think of the five-man front? It definitely helped jump-start the pass rush, though McCown was holding the ball a little longer than some QBs. I wonder what will happen to it when Aldon gets suspended - just plug in another pass rusher in that spot? Coverage from the secondary has been a problem, so maybe going with TJ as a cover safety along with two more CBs, and an amped up rush from a five-man front (and we've got a lot of pass-rushers) is a way to minimize the holes in the secondary. There will be receptions underneath (tight ends will continue to run wild), but receivers won't be going over the top, which is Norton's mantra.

I didnt notice actual formation changes - due it being an away game, I felt compelled to get daytime buzzed and watch the game. All I know is, it worked. We were getting to the QB a lot more. And I agree on KNJ's style - we will dare teams to throw it over the middle and deep. Until we get a better coverage LB corps, it will be an achilles for us, but we are starting to show signs of being strong in other parts, so its a nice trade off (for now)

Part of the problem was the offense stopped doing what was working so well for them through three quarters and started playing conservatively, playing not to lose. Step on their throats instead and the defense is not going to get so worn down, and the game doesn't end so close.

Seth Roberts needs to ensure he makes the catch - on one easy drop I think he was afraid he was about to get clobbered by Whitner. He's got the tools though, his catch in the back corner of the end zone was beautiful - and a beautiful pass from Carr.

How are you feeling about Carr now, and Carr vs. Bridgewater? By rating Carr is #8 in the League right now, even after the horrible Raiders debut vs. the Bengals. He is #9 in yards per attempt (Bridgewater is #23). He looks like such a good decision-maker to me, he gets rid of the ball fast (only sacked once, and that was when he ran out of bounds just short of the line of scrimmage). I'd have to think he is among the League leaders in pass plays that go over 20 yards [edit: according to NFL.com Raiders lead the League in pass plays over 20 yards, with 15. Vikings are 28th, with 6]. He is made for a spread offense and airing out the ball - usually with great touch. There's not many young QBs I would take over Carr.

Agreed, we got conservative. Have to embrace that we are a team based on offense right now, and go for the jugular there. Defensive minded GM, defensive minded coach.. but that's not who we are right now. We don't ground and pound and rely on defense yet.

Carr is absolutely showing that he's a top 15 QB, and maybe even better. The Cinci game was disturbing, but so far its been an anomaly. Bridgewater OTOH is showing that preseason was his anomaly, and while he's throwing accurately, his line doesnt give him time to fire when he needs to. Plus, AP is back. So while I'm still bullish on Bridgewater, Carr has definitely shown to be better thus far. I'm hoping it's sustained when we play good defenses - right now it looks good, but have to consider that both BAL and CLE have lackluster pass rushes. Denver will be the true test to see where Carr is at.

Post #54 » by **FNQ** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:01 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:oh…forgot Amari had the worst punt return of all time.

lmfao. that might have set him back too.

Nope, special teams is listed as its own animal. Its not shown here.

Amari got dinged because a WR fumble that allowed CLE at a shot at winning the game. Keep in mind that WR tend to not have high grades because of volume, but a turnover is heavily weighted. Cooper was awesome, but had CLE tied up the game, we would have been pretty disappointed in him, right? PFF recognized that his gaffe nearly cost us a win, and dinged him appropriately IMO.

Its consistent with how they grade RB/WR who lose fumbles, so maybe I'm jaded to it. When looking at PFF, remember that comparing grades across positions is not going to give you a good idea of impact. Also, I believe he was given credit for one of Crabtree's OPIs. I'd have to re-watch to see why, but when we win, I don't care to re-watch :nod:

Post #55 » by **FNQ** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:FNQ ducked the post (or just missed it)…I'm joking around.

But Carr's throw to Seth in the back of the end zone is the same thing of beauty that Teddy threw over Hayden's head in the preseason.

I missed it (the post, not the throw)
I'm looking forward to seeing Carr get another chance at a high caliber defense, probably the best pass defense in the league, in week 5. If he looks anywhere near as good as he has the past 2 weeks, the word potential will fall off the title 'potential franchise QB'

Mario Edwards Jr has been invisible to me through 3 weeks. He is back to being a project in my mind after a stellar preseason.

Twinkie defense · Post #56 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:53 pm

NFL Total QBR - 2015 Season Leaders

1 Aaron Rodgers, GB
2 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT
3 Carson Palmer, ARI
4 Andy Dalton, CIN
5 Matt Ryan, ATL
6 Tom Brady, NE
7 Derek Carr, OAK

Just three games... good company though! Carr's ability to evade the sack will serve him well I think.

Quake Griffin · Post #57 » by **Quake Griffin** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:10 am

gotta do more homework on QBR.

his passer rating is higher than Game #2 but the QBR is significantly lower

Neddy · Post #58 » by **Neddy** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:40 am

I am an avid fan of advanced stats, especially for baseball, but I don't agree Amari and Aldon had overall negative game on last sunday.
glad to see Carr finally being recognized. I believe in this kid. he appears to be better than his older brother and bound for greatness someday.

Post #59 » by **FNQ** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:39 pm

Neddy wrote:I am an avid fan of advanced stats, especially for baseball, but I don't agree Amari and Aldon had overall negative game on last sunday.
glad to see Carr finally being recognized. I believe in this kid. he appears to be better than his older brother and bound for greatness someday.

PFF isn't advanced stats, its basically an eyeball test that they reduce to a numerical grade. It's valuable because they watch the same play multiple times and catch things the eyes wouldn't. If you don't agree with the grades at face value, that's fine, but the more you look into them, the more you'll understand them. First thing you need to know: OL, DL, and LB always have the highest grades, because they are graded on every play. RBs and WRs tend to have the lowest range of grades, because they are graded on a finite # of plays.

Aldon had a couple nice plays but was also beaten up in the 2nd half of the game. Amari had a great game, but WR get little PFF credit for route running (and on plays where they dont get the ball, they dont get a grade) meaning they are essentially graded on a handful of plays, and if you fumble in the 4th quarter of a close game on one of those plays, you will get dinged.

Quake Griffin · Post #60 » by **Quake Griffin** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:20 pm

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/29/why-aaron-rodgers-earned-a-slightly-negative-grade/

something to consider…
You can hate the grade or accept the knocks that made it.

but something to consider.