Week 4 - Raiders @ Bears - Oct. 4th

[benchmobbin02]

If you haven't been paying attention that closely to sports news, there is a lot happening in Bears team HQ these days.

- They traded starting LOLB Jared Allen, who was playing a new position from DE, to the Panthers. That moves former Raider Lamar Houston into the starting lineup. I don't follow enough of their games to know if that is an upgrade but the two players are certainly different in name recognition and pass rush.

- They traded former 2nd rd pick ILB Jon Bostic to the Patriots for a 6th rd pick. He has been inactive all 3 weeks (ankle injury listed on report)so far but been a former 2nd rd pick means something was really wrong here for them to cut ties for a low rd pick. Either medical, in which case I don't know if he passes a physical with the Pats or not a good fit for the defensive scheme they were running.

- Alshon Jeffery is expected to return to the lineup after missing 2 games with a hamstring injury. We will know more by how much he practices leading up to game day but this is definitely a boost for the Bears.

- Jimmy Clausen has been pretty bad in relief of Jay Cutler so far and here is to hoping that trend continues. There is even rumblings of fans wanting David Fales, a 2014 6th rd pick who was promoted from the practice squad last week, to start in place of him. If we can get the kind of pressure we had last game vs Cleveland on Clausen, we should have another big sack and turnover day.

- With the trades coming fast now for the Bears there is talk of them trying to unload Matt Forte. I think this is total ridiculous being that he has been one of the best and most consistent all around backs in the league for the past 3 years. Their reasoning is is his contract being up after the year and not thinking he will resign so they can trade him now for some value and start to groom their young backs in Rodgers Langford and Carey to take over.

Either way, when your enemy is in chaos, attack!

[HMFFL]

Thanks for creating it early.

I'm very excited about this one. Not only due to how well we've been playing, but I have some coworkers that are Chicago fans, and a big win Sunday would be nice bragging rights.

[GoRapstheoriginal]

My bro in law & 1 of my best buddies is/are *huge* Bears fans so...We will see what happens, if we've turned the corner we should win this hopefully.

[FNQ]

We should win this regardless. Their backup QB is playing, their top pass catcher is dinged up, their lines on both sides are crap, and they are actively shopping any players with value in a rebuilding effort. The only fear I have is that their DBs take successful gambles, and that Martellus Bennett runs wild on us. I'm not overly concerned with Forte - our LBs are good at stopping the run - but I am concerned with screen passes and TE seam routes.

If Carr brings his B game, we should be able to put up 30 points.

Good Guys 33
Jimmy Clausen's Bears 10

[FNQ]

- With the trades coming fast now for the Bears there is talk of them trying to unload Matt Forte. I think this is total ridiculous being that he has been one of the best and most consistent all around backs in the league for the past 3 years. Their reasoning is is his contract being up after the year and not thinking he will resign so they can trade him now for some value and start to groom their young backs in Rodgers Langford and Carey to take over.

Moving Forte makes a ton of sense, there's no reason to keep him because he'll be gone next year and they arent playing for anything. The one that shocks me is that they're considering flipping Alshon Jeffry because his deal is expiring.

I know we have Cooper and Crabs is doing fine, but Cooper-Jeffry-Crabtree is a combo that puts us in the upper echelon of passing attacks. Just saying, I wouldnt mind parting with a 3rd to make that happen, though I don't know what the Bears expect to get for him. Can't imagine it being more than that considering his contract status.

[benchmobbin02]

Jeffery's name got added as speculation by a Bears blogger. He used the recent trades, his contract being up and that he may want to test the market but he is a young star building block, not a 30 yr old guy that doesn't fit in the future for them. The bears aren't really open to moving him unless they get totally blown away with an offer. They would like to bring him back in next year to pair with Kevin White to have the twin towers again. They'll have the money to pay him like a top WR and probably will have a newly drafted QB they want to build around. Cutler's dead money is palatable next year so we may see a cut coming if they can grab a QB at the top of the draft.

I'd rather use our 3rd rd pick to bring in draft pick that will be on a rookie contract then trade for a guy we only have for 12-13 games and then have to compete with the league to resign to a huge deal. Alshon is gonna command around 10mil a year. I'd rather keep the pick and go after underrated guys like Rishard Matthews from the Dolphins or Marvin Jones from the Bengals in FA and keep developing Roberts and maybe even resign Crab depending on how he finishes the season. Even just going after Jeffery in FA is better than giving up a pick, a high pick at that for a rental. Reggie would be laughed at around the league. Pass!

[Neddy]

We should win this regardless. Their backup QB is playing, their top pass catcher is dinged up, their lines on both sides are crap, and they are actively shopping any players with value in a rebuilding effort. The only fear I have is that their DBs take successful gambles, and that Martellus Bennett runs wild on us. I'm not overly concerned with Forte - our LBs are good at stopping the run - but I am concerned with screen passes and TE seam routes.

If Carr brings his B game, we should be able to put up 30 points.

Good Guys 33
Jimmy Clausen's Bears 10

LOL come on man, we are the RAIDERS. we are the bad mofos and NEVER the good guys.

maybe good fellas

[HMFFL]

I read that Cutler is possibly going to start.
We should win even if he does.

[FNQ]

Maybe Jeffry isnt available, but trading a pick that on average produces a starter for 1-2 years for a top 10 WR is laughable? Yea, Ill take that every day when we have a ton of capspace, a young legit QB, and the threat of a franchise tag that wouldnt be thought of for any other free agent. I dunno why we'd continue to nickel and dime when we have so much capspace.

[benchmobbin02]

Maybe Jeffry isnt available, but trading a pick that on average produces a starter for 1-2 years for a top 10 WR is laughable? Yea, Ill take that every day when we have a ton of capspace, a young legit QB, and the threat of a franchise tag that wouldnt be thought of for any other free agent. I dunno why we'd continue to nickel and dime when we have so much capspace.

So a 3rd rd pick for 12 games of a banged up 10 ten WR that is an Unrestricted free agent next year...remind me to reference this logic whenever you are trying to argue gm actions or roster signings in the future.

First off, I don't think a 3rd rd pick would get a trade done. If he is put on the market, more than a few teams would be interested and the price would go up not down from the starting point. Next, he is hurt so we'd have to wait til he was healthy to gauge any value. Finally, franchise tagging is an option after the year but if he didn't want to come here and resents the tag right after a trade then we lose him the next year anyway.

I understand you wanting to make a splash but it is a huge gamble to take for a guy who has so many ? marks regarding his situation. The way Reggie has built is through the draft and smart FA moves and contracts. That move goes against both of those principles IMO.

[Quake Griffin]

This is the ultimate trap game if you ask me.
This team played Seattle tough for most of that game last week and one of Seattle's TDs was a special teams TD. They'll have a little extra motivation to not go 0-4 as well.

I look at home wins [sometimes] as a matter of style. How did you get it done?
Road?
Malcolm X flow. Win "by any means necessary."
get'er done

[Quake Griffin]

Pass on giving up a 3rd for Alshon or any WR not named Julio. The team is not deep enough and the infrastructure of the Reggie Rebuild is not complete. Making a move like that would be unwise at this point in time if you ask me.

[FNQ]

So a 3rd rd pick for 12 games of a banged up 10 ten WR that is an Unrestricted free agent next year...remind me to reference this logic whenever you are trying to argue gm actions or roster signings in the future.

the Raiders *NEED* to spend almost to the cap level next year or they will be fined the difference regardless. So spending it on a top 10 WR receiver in his prime is now a bad thing, because of the slim chance a 3rd round pick hits? That's going vastly against the odds. Would you trade Clive Walford for Jeffry? I sure would.

First off, I don't think a 3rd rd pick would get a trade done. If he is put on the market, more than a few teams would be interested and the price would go up not down from the starting point. Next, he is hurt so we'd have to wait til he was healthy to gauge any value. Finally, franchise tagging is an option after the year but if he didn't want to come here and resents the tag right after a trade then we lose him the next year anyway.

I understand you wanting to make a splash but it is a huge gamble to take for a guy who has so many ? marks regarding his situation. The way Reggie has built is through the draft and smart FA moves and contracts. That move goes against both of those principles IMO.

A 3rd probably would do it, if CHI puts him on the market. That would mean they aren't interested in retaining him at his price, which means the market drops. Additionally, the higher pick you give increases the leverage Jeffry's agent has when hammering out a deal in free agency. He's playing this week, btw. His resentment is not our problem - the ones who typically resent being tagged are guys who are the elite at their position (Jeffry's close, but not) or players who definitely want out (can't imagine he'd be want out of a + situation and a team on the rise that has buttloads of cap).

Reggie has built us up.. but slowly. And the thing about the GB model is that it requires being elite from the get, and maintaining it. We aren't there yet. And by the time we are there, new holes will have opened up. Tuck, Penn, Woodson, M. Smith, Crabtree.. how many years do these guys have left? How close are we to being a contender? The NFL is too rife with parity to sit on your hands the entire time. We've built our foundation, soon it will be time to push our chips in to the center and make a leap. It's going to happen next FA regardless, so why not consolidate assets into something that rarely comes available in free agency? Can't nickel and dime forever - that will be expensive next year.

[FNQ]

Pass on giving up a 3rd for Alshon or any WR not named Julio. The team is not deep enough and the infrastructure of the Reggie Rebuild is not complete. Making a move like that would be unwise at this point in time if you ask me.

A 3rd rounder, on average per the DC times, is a 1.5 year starter in the NFL. The odds of a player like that making the Pro Bowl *once* is 7%. The average of one of those players making the Pro Bowl 2+ times is 2%. Jeffry is clearly a Pro Bowl talent, acquiring him for a 3rd round pick would be an utter heist. He'd be 26 starting next season, leaving at least 2-3 seasons of prime on his career.

For every Gabe Jackson, there are 2.5 Tony Bergstrom's. Remember that when you want to pass on a top 10 WR for a 3rd round pick.

[FNQ]

lol like 5 minutes after I posted, rotoworld is saying Jeffry doesnt play. But the twitter handle that broke it indicated that it was due to Cutler being out as well, so there was no need to push Jeffry into this game and that if it were a meaningful game, he would play

[benchmobbin02]

You still never addressed the biggest reason not to do a trade for a guy who is a free agent the following year. We'd be getting 12 games at the most for sure, not to mention the fact that he is injured right now, in exchange for a building block player. You referenced if I would trade Walford for Jeffery, I don't know. We haven't even scratched the surface on Walford. He has the look of a guy that can be special. We all thought it after he was drafted. He needs some time due to missing alot of camp but giving up on a high draft pick for a rental could come back to bit you in the ass.

But a better question is would you trade Gabe Jackson for Jeffery?

Also, If Chi put Jeffery on the market, he will definitely go for more than a 3rd rd pick. That would be the starting point and when the 3rd and 4th teams call to inquiry about him the price WOULD go up regardless of the agents leverage position. Some team would up the ante.

The Green Bay model doesn't require that you have an elite team to start with, it is easier tho. When Ted Thompson was hired in 2005, the Packers were good but not elite and over the cap. Thompson had to come in and release and not resign a handful of key players and they went 4-12 that year. They signed FA to contracts favorable to the team to fill the holes all the while using redundant talent to stack picks and slowly rebuild the a young dominate team that now challenges every year.

Reggie isn't nickel and diming, he is being smart not to blow cap space on one guy when we can plug several hole at once. Last year he would have loved to have Randall Cobb or Suh but if they get hurt then we are screwed with 15 mil on the books. He picks his spot and if a guy is welling to come here and is a real difference maker then the check book opens i.e. Dan Willaims and Rodney Hudson.

[benchmobbin02]

Cutler and Jeffery were laughing about all the reports that have been coming out about if they would play or not and said that they really don't know with hamstring injuries (basically game time decision). And really why would they anyone for sure. This way the Raiders don't know for sure who to prepare for.

[Quake Griffin]

There's a law of diminishing returns at some point. Not sure what blowing a 3rd on another receiver will do when we have Coop, Crab, and Seth already.

If I'm blowing a 3rd rounder, I'm fixing the trenches or a significant hole.
- Right side of the o-line
- 3 Tech
- Mike
- OLB
- Safety
- Corner

WR is probably the last place id spend that pick. No doubt in my mind that he could go for a 3rd rounder or more. But for this team? Pass.

[Twinkie defense]

This is a must win - a W in Chicago plus putting up a fight vs. Denver will tell me this is not the same sorry team as game 1 and last season. A loss in Chicago and a blowout loss to Denver puts us back at square 1.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[FNQ]

There's a law of diminishing returns at some point. Not sure what blowing a 3rd on another receiver will do when we have Coop, Crab, and Seth already.

If I'm blowing a 3rd rounder, I'm fixing the trenches or a significant hole.
- Right side of the o-line
- 3 Tech
- Mike
- OLB
- Safety
- Corner

WR is probably the last place id spend that pick. No doubt in my mind that he could go for a 3rd rounder or more. But for this team? Pass.

I would say build around your strengths more so than plugging weaknesses. Teams like NE, SEA, GB have remained on top because they made hay on one side of the ball, and worked to become tolerable on the other. But there are 2 elite offenses and one elite defense there, and that's the common denominator when you are talking about Super Bowl contenders - they are elite on one side of the field.