Everything Jon Gruden Thread

[HMFFL]

Oakland Raiders coach Jon Gruden 'surprised' Colin Kaepernick has not been signed
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22930182/oakland-raiders-coach-jon-gruden-surprised-colin-kaepernick-not-signed

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Oakland Raiders coach Jon Gruden has an inkling as to why Colin Kaepernick remains unemployed.

"I think there's a lot of intrigue there," Gruden said Tuesday at the coaches breakfast at the NFL owners meetings. "His performance on the field wasn't very good, on tape. I think, Robert Griffin, a rookie of the year, [I'm] surprised he's out there. Tim Tebow takes a team to the playoffs, there's some surprise that he never came back. You know, Johnny Manziel, he's out there.

"Back to Kaepernick, he got beat out by [Blaine] Gabbert to start the [2016] season. I think that says something. [But] I am surprised he's not in camp with somebody. He probably will be soon."

[HMFFL]

Why Raiders coach Jon Gruden wants Derek Carr to take an approach like Peyton Manning

Oakland Raiders coach Jon Gruden has been high on Derek Carr since his Fresno State days. In fact, Gruden wants the quarterback to take an approach like future Hall of Famer Peyton Manning did with the Indianapolis Colts and Denver Broncos.

"We’ve been working extremely hard at empowering him to play a little bit like Peyton Manning played," Gruden said during a conference call with Raiders' season ticket holders Wednesday. "Get us into the best run possible, get us into the best pass play possible."

You can't blame Gruden for feeling that way because Carr took a direct approach at the line of scrimmage when he flourished and put up eye-popping numbers for the Bulldogs. That is something Gruden is expecting from Carr in his fifth season.

“When Derek was at Fresno State, he called his own plays a lot of the time at the line of scrimmage in a no-huddle offense," he said. "He’s very good at recognizing coverages, recognizing blitzes."

Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/sports/nfl/article211894879.html#storylink=cpy

[HMFFL]

Yeah, sure it's not..lol

Jon Gruden: Khalil Mack's holdout is not a distraction

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000948136/article/jon-gruden-khalil-macks-holdout-is-not-a-distraction

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[HMFFL]

Jon Gruden frustrated at Raiders having to play Rams twice in the next month


The schedule-making elves at NFL Headquarters have put an interesting wrinkle in the Raiders’ slate this season. Oakland plays the Rams this Saturday for Preseason Week 2, and then has to play them again in short order in a regular season Week 1 Monday Night Football game. This development has Raiders coach Jon Gruden scratching his head.

“I don’t understand it honestly, I don’t,” said Gruden when asked by reporters if he’d ever done anything like this before.

When asked about his reaction to this quirk of the schedule, Gruden said, “Like I said, I’ve never seen that. I was in the league a long time, I don’t remember that. What are you going to do about it, right? We’ll just adjust and adapt. Same for them as it is us.”

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2018/8/15/17697174/jon-gruden-frustrated-at-having-to-play-rams-twice-in-the-next-month


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[HMFFL]

Jon Gruden is set to return to Raiders, but might be without the team’s best player

The walls of the media room inside the Oakland Raiders practice facility are adorned with the front pages from several local sports pages. There also, however, are a pair of national publications highlighted.

Both feature the same player: Khalil Mack.

Even in his absence, as a holdout since the beginning of training camp here has stretched into a second month, Mack looms large over everything the Raiders are trying to do these days. Instead of the focus solely being on a countdown to the triumphant return of Jon Gruden, as the former Raiders and Buccaneers coach prepares for his first game on the sideline in nearly a decade, it is on whether Mack’s contractual situation will be resolved — or whether it will result in him being shipped out of town.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2018/08/28/jon-gruden-is-set-to-return-to-raiders-but-might-be-without-the-teams-best-player/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b75f5d4ed8d1

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[Neddy]

this Mack trade tells me 3 things loud and clear.

#1. Reggie no longer has any real say so other than just being Chucky's personal scout for inputs and being a consultant. Reggie in all the prior years, was pretty clear he wanted Mack in Black and Silver and retire as one. this salary cap stuff is nonsense. we are about 16 million under the cap as we speak and we could have simply cut one of the O-line men with a high cap to accommodate Mack no problem. would you rather have Mack or Osemele? I think the case was pretty clear if anyone would actually look into our payroll situation rather than just going along with the cliche' tow line of being frugal and efficient with cap space. Mack isn't just another pro-bowl DE, he is arguably the best DE the Raiders ever had. and I remember every down of Howie Long and Townsend. this cat is LT without drug issues, John Randle without all the crazy antics. this guy was your heart and soul of your D. no cap space or draftpicks, individually or combined, will have the effect that Mack's passrush can have in any game.

#2. Jon Gruden is either insecure after 10 years off, or has always suffered from Napoleon complex and needs to prove unnecessarily to his men that Jon is in deed, in charge. this egotistic and impulsive moves Chucky has made so far is costing us big time. one can at least argue that Mack's extension was not going to be a part of our plan, therefore the draft pick grabs and cap relief was a good return. however, how can the same fan also try to defend Chucky's other moves so far? giving our valuable 3rd away for Martavis then cut him for nothing. we could at least wait for the league to come down with a year long suspension and keep his rights for next season and still have the roster spot available as long as the suspension came before the final cuts. we don't pay the guy while he is serving his suspension, and he doesn't get to claim another year off of his deal, so why oh why cut this man for nothing? how about the back up QB situation? cut both Manuel and Cook and give away another 5th? AJ may have eluded Jon while in college, but this guy has not proven to be any better in NFL games than Manuel, and Cook being a couple of years younger and much cheaper, would have made fine sense, especially as of now that we do not have Mack on D which was poor with him last season. now without him it looks like we are gonna be tanking, at least on D. all that cap space and draft picks won't help this season's Raider D. we are **** on D this year, guys. and thanks, Jon.

#3. which then brings me to the last point, that after paying Carr and Chucky, it is entirely possible that Mark Davis, simply did not have the funds secured to pay Mack. this is after all, the same dude that chose LV when that city eventually agreed to foot the entire bill to build the stadium and rent it out to Mark Davis for a dollar a year. had Mark secured enough funds to satisfy the NFL owners with relocation fees and other financial powers, no way the Raiders don't get back into LA market, even with all the bad publicities of the past gang issues at the Coliseum back in the day. Raiders have the highest % of fanbase in Southern Cal than both the Rams and the Chargers combined, and some. Stan Kroenke won the hearts and minds of NFL owners (well, their pockets actually) because he has the $$$ to push for his agenda. he is building that LA stadium with his own money. Raiders could have moved into that Stadium but that right went to the Chargers who share less than 10% of the fanbase in the greater LA area. yes the Charger's owner was given the first right, but NFL is not stupid, they know the market share of Raiders in southern cal, and know they can make more money with the Raiders back in LA, with Chucky joining. it would have been the biggest sports story only rivaling LA LaBron story. instead, Mark chose away from #2 media market with long standing history with great revenue stream long term but requiring more initial investment, over a city that offered him a free stadium with no rental charge for the foreseeable future in Las Vegas, a whopper of a media market at #40 in USA.

don't get me wrong, I will always support my Raiders and I don't even watch 1 football game a year if my Raiders aren't in it. but man, Mark Davis so far is looking like one of Dr. Buss' kids and Jon Gruden... with all his coaching might, is looking like a carbon copy of Doc Rivers the GM.

[Quake Griffin]

this Mack trade tells me 3 things loud and clear.

#1. Reggie no longer has any real say so other than just being Chucky's personal scout for inputs and being a consultant. Reggie in all the prior years, was pretty clear he wanted Mack in Black and Silver and retire as one. this salary cap stuff is nonsense. we are about 16 million under the cap as we speak and we could have simply cut one of the O-line men with a high cap to accommodate Mack no problem. would you rather have Mack or Osemele? I think the case was pretty clear if anyone would actually look into our payroll situation rather than just going along with the cliche' tow line of being frugal and efficient with cap space. Mack isn't just another pro-bowl DE, he is arguably the best DE the Raiders ever had. and I remember every down of Howie Long and Townsend. this cat is LT without drug issues, John Randle without all the crazy antics. this guy was your heart and soul of your D. no cap space or draftpicks, individually or combined, will have the effect that Mack's passrush can have in any game.

#2. Jon Gruden is either insecure after 10 years off, or has always suffered from Napoleon complex and needs to prove unnecessarily to his men that Jon is in deed, in charge. this egotistic and impulsive moves Chucky has made so far is costing us big time. one can at least argue that Mack's extension was not going to be a part of our plan, therefore the draft pick grabs and cap relief was a good return. however, how can the same fan also try to defend Chucky's other moves so far? giving our valuable 3rd away for Martavis then cut him for nothing. we could at least wait for the league to come down with a year long suspension and keep his rights for next season and still have the roster spot available as long as the suspension came before the final cuts. we don't pay the guy while he is serving his suspension, and he doesn't get to claim another year off of his deal, so why oh why cut this man for nothing? how about the back up QB situation? cut both Manuel and Cook and give away another 5th? AJ may have eluded Jon while in college, but this guy has not proven to be any better in NFL games than Manuel, and Cook being a couple of years younger and much cheaper, would have made fine sense, especially as of now that we do not have Mack on D which was poor with him last season. now without him it looks like we are gonna be tanking, at least on D. all that cap space and draft picks won't help this season's Raider D. we are **** on D this year, guys. and thanks, Jon.

#3. which then brings me to the last point, that after paying Carr and Chucky, it is entirely possible that Mark Davis, simply did not have the funds secured to pay Mack. this is after all, the same dude that chose LV when that city eventually agreed to foot the entire bill to build the stadium and rent it out to Mark Davis for a dollar a year. had Mark secured enough funds to satisfy the NFL owners with relocation fees and other financial powers, no way the Raiders don't get back into LA market, even with all the bad publicities of the past gang issues at the Coliseum back in the day. Raiders have the highest % of fanbase in Southern Cal than both the Rams and the Chargers combined, and some. Stan Kroenke won the hearts and minds of NFL owners (well, their pockets actually) because he has the $$$ to push for his agenda. he is building that LA stadium with his own money. Raiders could have moved into that Stadium but that right went to the Chargers who share less than 10% of the fanbase in the greater LA area. yes the Charger's owner was given the first right, but NFL is not stupid, they know the market share of Raiders in southern cal, and know they can make more money with the Raiders back in LA, with Chucky joining. it would have been the biggest sports story only rivaling LA LaBron story. instead, Mark chose away from #2 media market with long standing history with great revenue stream long term but requiring more initial investment, over a city that offered him a free stadium with no rental charge for the foreseeable future in Las Vegas, a whopper of a media market at #40 in USA.

don't get me wrong, I will always support my Raiders and I don't even watch 1 football game a year if my Raiders aren't in it. but man, Mark Davis so far is looking like one of Dr. Buss' kids and Jon Gruden... with all his coaching might, is looking like a carbon copy of Doc Rivers the GM.

What on earth gives you the impression that our D is gonna be ****?

[GoRapstheoriginal]

How about we get through the first 4 games/month first? At least we will have a sample size then....

I'm hoping for 2-2 at least...

REALLY WISH we had kept Navarro Bowman...BUT has he signed anywhere else then?

[Quake Griffin]

How about we get through the first 4 games/month first? At least we will have a sample size then....

I'm hoping for 2-2 at least...

REALLY WISH we had kept Navarro Bowman...BUT has he signed anywhere else then?

No. He hasn't. But I'd pick him up now for sure.
I'm not sure why he hasn't signed elsewhere either. Asked on another Raider forum and nobody had the answer either.

I won't wait until 4 games.
Our defense sucked because of KNJ....his vanilla schemes..soft bull zones...unimaginative ways of getting to the passer.
Guenther is infinitely better than KNJ....the co-inventor/architect of what is likely the best defense in the league now (Minnesota)...He is going to pay dividends with or without Mack. I expect to be in the top half of defenses this year minimum.

We're better at LB. We're better at corner.

Coaching means everything in the NFL. You can have the talent and a **** coach will get nothing out of them.
A good coach pulls things out of players you didn't see before. No place is this more prevalent than football.


See,
2010 49ers: 6-10
2011 49ers (mostly same core): 13-3 with Harbaugh and Fangio.

[GoRapstheoriginal]

Yeah, I am not disagreeing. I'd rather be hopeful/optimistic. I also try to be a realist though.

If it all goes to ****/sideways/pear shaped, I'll always still root/cheer them on regardless..and probably watch most(all) of the games.

We gotta be better then last year right? I'd take .500 or 2 games above even.

[Quake Griffin]

This year always was and always will be about Carr and Gruden's relationship.

If Gruden isn't behind the times.
If Carr picks up the offense and all the different things Gruden has him doing (being under center).

We're going to be just fine.
It was never about Mack and what he could provide the team. Losing him is a set back but the ultimate set back would be Carr not getting back to 2016 form.

[Neddy]

What on earth gives you the impression that our D is gonna be ****?

did you think our D was good last season? Mack's pass rush kept our inept secondary from being completely exposed and abused. we are now without Mack. guys like Mario Edwards Jr. can go and guys like Hall and Hurst can step in to fill those voids, but only names like LT can replace Mack. I would expect a complete shut down D from the Bears, adding possibly the best player in NFL to their already stout D.

improvements to LB and CBs are real, but not drastic. D starts from the line. outside of Bruce Irvin, we don't have a proven pass rusher. I don't think we are better here.

Colten Miller struggling at LT while our probowl LT is lost playing RT.

already talked about Martavis and Mack trade.

the Raiders is in full on Doc Rivers the GM mode.

Mark Davis' best hire was Reggie McKz. now he has effectively stripped off of the power and authority from the GM he hired in favor for an emotional and talented coach who has no business building the roster without what appears to be without a clear plan. Chucky should just stick to coaching. not everyone can be Pop.

[Neddy]

This year always was and always will be about Carr and Gruden's relationship.

If Gruden isn't behind the times.
If Carr picks up the offense and all the different things Gruden has him doing (being under center).

We're going to be just fine.
It was never about Mack and what he could provide the team. Losing him is a set back but the ultimate set back would be Carr not getting back to 2016 form.

fear I have with Gruden having GM power is that we all know he prefers veterans over youth. we are supposed to be rebuilding and not reloading. what Gruden and Davis are doing, doesn't seem conductive with the goal.

[Quake Griffin]

What on earth gives you the impression that our D is gonna be ****?

did you think our D was good last season? Mack's pass rush kept our inept secondary from being completely exposed and abused. we are now without Mack. guys like Mario Edwards Jr. can go and guys like Hall and Hurst can step in to fill those voids, but only names like LT can replace Mack. I would expect a complete shut down D from the Bears, adding possibly the best player in NFL to their already stout D.

improvements to LB and CBs are real, but not drastic. D starts from the line. outside of Bruce Irvin, we don't have a proven pass rusher. I don't think we are better here.

Colten Miller struggling at LT while our probowl LT is lost playing RT.

already talked about Martavis and Mack trade.

the Raiders is in full on Doc Rivers the GM mode.

Mark Davis' best hire was Reggie McKz. now he has effectively stripped off of the power and authority from the GM he hired in favor for an emotional and talented coach who has no business building the roster without what appears to be without a clear plan. Chucky should just stick to coaching. not everyone can be Pop.

No. Our D last year was awful but that was because of KNJ.

Again....give Guenther a chance. I believe in him and his pedigree. He invented this Double A Gap with Zimmer a few years ago. They compare notes in the offseason. This is the difference.

This roster with a competent DC > Last year's roster w/ Mack and a complete asshat at DC.


I like Kolton Miller. He's athletic and long AF. He's made some outstanding and nasty ass plays this preseason.

Arden Key, PJ Hall, and Maurice Hurst make up our front unit.
I am excited to see what Arden and PJ can do specifically. They were both explosive players in college....pop out off the film type guys and had decent preseasons....well, Hall looked fantastic.

They're young but there's enough veteran leadership on this D that I don't mind them being that young.
Derrick Johnson and Bruce Irvin are character guys who are not going to quit when the going gets tough and they won't let the young guys either.

[Quake Griffin]

This year always was and always will be about Carr and Gruden's relationship.

If Gruden isn't behind the times.
If Carr picks up the offense and all the different things Gruden has him doing (being under center).

We're going to be just fine.
It was never about Mack and what he could provide the team. Losing him is a set back but the ultimate set back would be Carr not getting back to 2016 form.

fear I have with Gruden having GM power is that we all know he prefers veterans over youth. we are supposed to be rebuilding and not reloading. what Gruden and Davis are doing, doesn't seem conductive with the goal.

Could have been a function of Al Davis having control and Gruden fearing he might have gotten the ax back in the day.

With 10 years to shape this team in his image and the draft capital we are getting from Mack, it looks like he is getting exactly what he wants...a chance to build this team his way....and it looks like he can do it without looking over his shoulder.

If I look up tomorrow and see draft choices getting flipped for players, I will be the first one begging for him to get fired.

But if he does right by these picks and develops a juggernaut roster....he's a hero.

I sincerely hope one of the picks is a offensive tackle....great position to fill on the roster...we need someone for Penn's retirement...and when it comes time to re-up the tackle, he wont be a $25 million pay day. Great place to take the pick, park its value and eat off it for 10-12 years.
_________________________

My fear with Gruden is he sucks as a GM and doesn't know how to build a roster. He dismantled all of Reggie's work. Only 10 of Reggie's 50 picks are still here. That's fine. It's not like Reggie has been hitting the draft out of the park but I don't think Gruden is more suited to the task than Reggie is.

Even ifwe move on from Reggie....hell replace him with Joey Clinkscales...whatever the case, I don't want Gruden's power going unchecked.

[Quake Griffin]

And if i have this right, no team has ever paid two players $20+ million in football. The media who is largely taking a **** on the Raiders wanted us to be the first.

Further they keep saying we gave the BEars a 2nd when we swapped picks with the Bears.

It's bull.

If the roles were reversed and we sent out two 1st rounders for Khalil Mack and we weren't one piece away from an SB like the Bears, the media would be crucifying us. Instead they've been trying to put together this fiction since we got the right amount of compensation for Mack....the fiction being, "you don't trade a HoF pass rusher in his prime."

The media did NOT treat Detroit like this when they let Suh walk for NOTHING but potential compensatory picks.

FOH.

[Neddy]

And if i have this right, no team has ever paid two players $20+ million in football. The media who is largely taking a **** on the Raiders wanted us to be the first.

Further they keep saying we gave the BEars a 2nd when we swapped picks with the Bears.

It's bull.

If the roles were reversed and we sent out two 1st rounders for Khalil Mack and we weren't one piece away from an SB like the Bears, the media would be crucifying us. Instead they've been trying to put together this fiction since we got the right amount of compensation for Mack....the fiction being, "you don't trade a HoF pass rusher in his prime."

The media did NOT treat Detroit like this when they let Suh walk for NOTHING but potential compensatory picks.

FOH.

but the football salary cap has never been as large before either. knowing NBA's super max for vets are somewhere around 30% of the total cap for 1 player? in today's football, that would be around 60 million. with 22 starters without counting for the special team, but also knowing only 11 players can be on the field at all times, which cuts down everyone's fulltime as somewhere around 1/2 time work, you can deduce the mathematical impact in some rudimentary way to be 11/5, the number of players at all times on the floor/field for your team at any time a play is made, 20 times 2.2 is 44 million, and that is what an NBA max vet is making in terms of NFL money. reversely adjusting, you can actually fit 3 20 mil players for today's NFL salary cap and still put out a good supporting cast with 120 million left over, roughly speaking. (the 20 mil max is of course a retro max, with expectation of the Cap growth as NBA has done, and inflating contracts with that anticipation. I expect in less than 6 years, the NFL Max will reflect close to today's NBA max with today's cap at around 30 per player, but by then the cap will also increase)

and our picks for those 2 first rounders would have been much closer to the top pick had we traded two picks for Mack, but with Mack going to the Bears, here is a real good chance those two picks might be a slightly primed early second rounders in 23 to 30 picks which drastically reduces the value of those picks, especially when you factor in the swapping of our 2nd and 5th for 3rd and 6th to get that second 1st. I still give up my picks to pick up a prime 27 year old Mack to give him his 100 whatever the deal for 6 years, knowing the cap is ever going to increase from here on, I make the deal even if we are the worst team in NFL.

If I was to rate the separation between Mack and Carr in terms of 0 to 100 ratings, Mack is ahead by 10 points or more. Carr plays more impactful position, yeah sure, but how many more QBs in this league can you name ahead of Carr? was he even average among the starting QBs? then, ask yourself how many DEs are ahead of Mack? I don't see 1.

[Neddy]

I feel like I was very drunk when I left this post above... so yeah, take it with a grain of salt.