OT - Is stealing signs cheating?

evilRyu · Post #1 » by **evilRyu** » Mon Apr 2, 2007 5:45 pm

Not sure I should have this in the OT board, but I'd like to get opinions from fellow Jays fans!

Anyways, why do teams have such a huge beef if opposing teams are stealing their signs? That is something I never understood..

For example, if Team B has a runner on 2nd, and looking at the signs that the catcher from Team A is giving, why would Team A be upset? Make better signs then!

It seems that I hear teams get upset at other teams because of this.. If I'm not mistaken, I think when Orlando Hudson was on the team, if he was a runner at 2nd, he'd tip the batter, and you'd hear complaints.. What is O-Dawg supposed to do?? Cover his eyes?!

Thoughts?

Huskies1947 · Post #2 » by **Huskies1947** » Mon Apr 2, 2007 5:52 pm

it's dirty

The_Hater · Post #3 » by **The_Hater** » Mon Apr 2, 2007 6:13 pm

Yes and no. Teams definitely do try and steal signs from the catcher and the base coaches, but when opposing teams get wind of it, there's an unwritten rule that you're allowed to retaliate.

As for your runner on 2nd example, that is exactly why catchers flash multiple signs. So baserunners can't easily figure out the signs. And many batteries will change the indicator every inning to make it tough to find a pattern.

belowtherim · Post #4 » by **belowtherim** » Mon Apr 2, 2007 6:22 pm

As far as there being any mention of it in the actual rules of baseball, there is no such reference. It is completely 'legal' in terms of the rules.

As The_Hater said, it's unwritten rules of sportsmanship that you don't do it, and if you do, you try to keep it subtle.

xAIRNESSx · Post #5 » by **xAIRNESSx** » Mon Apr 2, 2007 6:56 pm

I see no problem with stealing signs. Jays are always being accused of it and I've never had a problem with it since it's not in the rule book. If the other team is exposing itself, it your duty to take advantage and their responsibility to change up their signs.

MalReyn · Post #6 » by **MalReyn** » Mon Apr 2, 2007 8:03 pm

There's no problem with people on the field trying to steal signs. It's been part of the game for ages, and teams take measures to avoid it because they know this.

What IS cheating would be, say, putting someone in the center field bleachers with binoculars to steal signs.

rdua · Post #7 » by **rdua** » Mon Apr 2, 2007 8:28 pm

Hell no! You take any advantage the opposing team gives you! If someone poorly hid their poker hand, wouldn't you sneak-a-peek?

Andrea>Dirk · Post #8 » by **Andrea>Dirk** » Mon Apr 2, 2007 9:02 pm

No, you gotta try and gain whatever advantage you can in baseball. Everyone else does it!

evilRyu · Post #9 » by **evilRyu** » Mon Apr 2, 2007 9:11 pm

rdua wrote:Hell no! You take any advantage the opposing team gives you! If someone poorly hid their poker hand, wouldn't you sneak-a-peek?

exactly.... you'd take advantage any way possible to tip the scale in your favor..... this whole "unwritten rule" thing bugs me.....

cb4_89 · Post #10 » by **cb4_89** » Mon Apr 2, 2007 10:09 pm

Nope. Its not. if you can figure out what they are going to do with them telling it to you then good for youl.

aligator · Post #11 » by **aligator** » Tue Apr 3, 2007 3:15 am

No! It's part of the game.

scobes · Post #12 » by **scobes** » Tue Apr 3, 2007 4:14 am

I have absolutely no problem with this. It's part of the game, and responsibility falls into the hands of the opposing team to stop it.

Post #13 » by **LittleOzzy** » Tue Apr 3, 2007 4:19 am

MalReyn wrote:
What IS cheating would be, say, putting someone in the center field bleachers with binoculars to steal signs.

When players steal signs I have no problem with it at all because it's just part of the game, but I wonder if a team has ever tried what MalReyn is suggesting with a person in the stands.

2009NBAChamps · Post #14 » by **2009NBAChamps** » Tue Apr 3, 2007 4:09 pm

rdua wrote:Hell no! You take any advantage the opposing team gives you! If someone poorly hid their poker hand, wouldn't you sneak-a-peek?

evilRyu · Post #15 » by **evilRyu** » Tue Apr 3, 2007 4:16 pm

Then why the heck do teams complain about it in the first place then?

belowtherim · Post #16 » by **belowtherim** » Tue Apr 3, 2007 4:54 pm

evilRyu wrote:Then why the heck do teams complain about it in the first place then?

They complain only when it's done obviously, if you have the runner on second putting his hand up with the pitch that was called or doing something to distract the catcher from his job, expect that the batter will get a ball in the chest...Throwing at the head or behind the player is looking to injure them, throwing at their chest or lower is just sending a message "Stop acting like a child"

There is a right way and a wrong way to do it, do it the wrong way and people get pissed.

The_Hater · Post #17 » by **The_Hater** » Tue Apr 3, 2007 7:06 pm

LittleOzzy wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

When players steal signs I have no problem with it at all because it's just part of the game, but I wonder if a team has ever tried what MalReyn is suggesting with a person in the stands.

For sure they have.

There was a huge controversy a few years ago about something along these lines in a college game/tournament. I think the host team was accused of having a camara hidden in CF after the fact.

The_Hater · Post #18 » by **The_Hater** » Tue Apr 3, 2007 7:11 pm

Couldn't find anything on the college controversy (it might have been a high school team actually). But here's another article on the subject:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-104362915.html