GDT: Browns with stripes @ 49ers

[I_am_1z]

Baltimore has a good run of good years and this year has been the disaster and aberration... And Ozzie Newsome is one of the best gms in the game... Baalke is not horrible but he is nothing special either. And if they are less whiney get you a Ravens hat and be a Ravens fan. I wasn't happy about the Harbaugh decision. And if they wanted to fire someone fire them. Their leaks and slander during the season was classless. They knew they couldn't get along with him so why keep him that last year? I have to think all the front office drama affected the team last year and if I am honest if Harbaugh came back this year... I think at best the Niners would have gotten 9 wins.. thats at best I think realistically it would be 7 or 8 unless by him staying Willis and the Cowboy would have come back as well. But if your going to defend Baalke as rebuilding the team... look at the product on the field... Kaep.. riding the pine, Aj Jenkins gone, Borland quit, Tank Carradine.. role player, Marcus Martin... hot garbage, Vance Mcdonald.. a tight end who can't catch, Corey Lemonier, Marcus Lattimore instead of Lacey... BRILLIANT, Jimmy Ward over Roby.... Aldon Smith a hit if he could stop being stupid and stay on the field. 44 draft picks made by Baalke... name the pro bowlers, name the starters who would be starting on other teams. Eric Reid, Lynch, Hyde? Iupati, Anthony Davis if he comes out of retirement. There is being a homer and defending your team but Baalke has done nothing to merit it save for one homerun draft one disaster of a draft and the rest average at best.

Reid, Al. Smith, Bowman, Kaepernick, Iupati - pro bowl

Bowman, Borland, Al. Smith - Made some pretty good cases to be DPOY

Hyde, Lynch, Tartt, A. Davis, Bruce Miller - Likely future pro bowlers

Kaepernick made the pro bowl? When was that? And I doubt Bruce Miller will ever even sniff the Pro bowl. Sure Baalke has drafted some good players, particularly on defense and in the secondary. But he has been pretty awful on offense. Yes, Hyde could be a great one. But when you look at his picks beginning in 2012 through the current year and look at his overall hits versus misses it isn't very good. Add to that, look at the some of the players he has drafted versus some of the ones he could have drafted. Vance McDonald is a perfect example of that. Add to that free agent misses like Darnell Dockett. Taken as a whole personnel wise, Baalke does not have this team heading in the right direction. Sure he might have found some good players. But is he on pace to building a championship contending roster and is competing with the other top GMs in the league? I don't think so.

Brock, Cox, Culliver, Bethea, Wilhoite, Ahmad Brooks, Gabbert (too soon?), Kilgore, Ted Ginn jr (misused), Stevie Johnson (misused)

The year the 49ers went to the Super Bowl, I was under the impression he would have been in the Pro Bowl that year if he didn't have bigger matters at stake.

I'm not looking at hit ratios because Baalke is naturally going to do worse since he tends to have a stockpile of picks every year.
Oh Darnell Dockett? We missed on a projected situational defensive end, what's the big deal there? Add Wright and Pears in there too—none of them ought to be on the team next year and it won't cost the niners going into 2016.

[RedneckNiner]

Aldon Smith - Character issues coming out of college continued in the NFL off the team.
Iupati not resigned because who needs olinemen now a Cardinal
Borland- Quit after a Year
Kaeptard- Done as a forty niner coin flip as to whether or not him or Gabbert is better.
Anthony Davis- sand in Vag like Borland Retired...
Is there anyone from the 2012 draft still in the NFL?
Culliver- decent but not good enough to resign
Ahmad Brooks- average at best.
Marcus Martin the quicker sack giver upper
Looney- Is he even in the NFL
Lamichael James
Aj Jenkins
Bykowski
Kendall Hunter -oft injured
Lattimore- Captain of the all acl squad
Kyle Williams Fumbles away trip to the super bowl
BJ Daniels- with the Seahawks I think

Baalke has had some Hits I never denied that Reid, Bowman, Iupati Lynch Tart Hyde Kilgore But even a blind squireel finds a nut now and then. Baalke as I said is not horrible but he is nothing special. He drafted for depth and got some nice role players but you need playmakers and he has whiffed on those. Tank, Lemonier, Dial, all are decent role players but none are anything special.

[Pattersonca65]

Aldon Smith - Character issues coming out of college continued in the NFL off the team.
Iupati not resigned because who needs olinemen now a Cardinal
Borland- Quit after a Year
Kaeptard- Done as a forty niner coin flip as to whether or not him or Gabbert is better.
Anthony Davis- sand in Vag like Borland Retired...
Is there anyone from the 2012 draft still in the NFL?
Culliver- decent but not good enough to resign
Ahmad Brooks- average at best.
Marcus Martin the quicker sack giver upper
Looney- Is he even in the NFL
Lamichael James
Aj Jenkins
Bykowski
Kendall Hunter -oft injured
Lattimore- Captain of the all acl squad
Kyle Williams Fumbles away trip to the super bowl
BJ Daniels- with the Seahawks I think

Baalke has had some Hits I never denied that Reid, Bowman, Iupati Lynch Tart Hyde Kilgore But even a blind squireel finds a nut now and then. Baalke as I said is not horrible but he is nothing special. He drafted for depth and got some nice role players but you need playmakers and he has whiffed on those. Tank, Lemonier, Dial, all are decent role players but none are anything special.

I think you are being a bit generous here. Dial is a good player but Lemonier is garbage. He can't even sniff the QB which is supposed to be why he is on the team. Last couple of games he hurt the team more than help it. He needs to be cut this offseason, Tank has been a complete failure as a regular lineman. Now he is losing weight to try and rush the QB from the end position like he did in college. So far he has been invisible. If he can't make an impact on passing downs after trimming down then he is basically useless also.

[I_am_1z]

Here's the thing everyone's overlooking:

Baalke could trade 1 1st rounder for 30 7th round picks...

If both teams have 1 hit, (so 1 for 1 & 1 for 30) that's all that matters. Ratios on hits and misses DON'T matter.

[RedneckNiner]

Here's the thing everyone's overlooking:

Baalke could trade 1 1st rounder for 30 7th round picks...

If both teams have 1 hit, (so 1 for 1 & 1 for 30) that's all that matters. Ratios on hits and misses DON'T matter.

so what your saying is one hit makes a winner. at least that explains your blind devotion.

[Pattersonca65]

It is simple to analyze Baalke. List his drafts by round for each year since 2012. See how many of those players turned out to be either stars, role players, or outright busts. When you look at the list it is obvious this team is not trending in the right direction and we can't say this team is headed for the top tier of the NFL. At best the way it looks now Baalke is building a mediocre 8-8 team. If you are ok with that then you can be ok with Baalke.

[CrimsonCrew]

Geep is an offensive minded coach. Just not a good one. The problem is the way things are, no good coach wants to come here. The only reason Geep is OC is because three or four other OC candidates turned the job down. The WR coach for Philly even turned the 49ers down. How bad is that? All this because Jed chose Tomsula over everyone else.

Good coaches are normally employed by teams.

John Harbaugh is having similar troubles as Tomsula in Baltimore—their season too was doomed from the start. Can you imagine the flak Baalke would have gotten if he drafted Perriman? Of course Baltimore is a far less whiny fan base.

Baltimore has a good run of good years and this year has been the disaster and aberration... And Ozzie Newsome is one of the best gms in the game... Baalke is not horrible but he is nothing special either. And if they are less whiney get you a Ravens hat and be a Ravens fan. I wasn't happy about the Harbaugh decision. And if they wanted to fire someone fire them. Their leaks and slander during the season was classless. They knew they couldn't get along with him so why keep him that last year? I have to think all the front office drama affected the team last year and if I am honest if Harbaugh came back this year... I think at best the Niners would have gotten 9 wins.. thats at best I think realistically it would be 7 or 8 unless by him staying Willis and the Cowboy would have come back as well. But if your going to defend Baalke as rebuilding the team... look at the product on the field... Kaep.. riding the pine, Aj Jenkins gone, Borland quit, Tank Carradine.. role player, Marcus Martin... hot garbage, Vance Mcdonald.. a tight end who can't catch, Corey Lemonier, Marcus Lattimore instead of Lacey... BRILLIANT, Jimmy Ward over Roby.... Aldon Smith a hit if he could stop being stupid and stay on the field. 44 draft picks made by Baalke... name the pro bowlers, name the starters who would be starting on other teams. Eric Reid, Lynch, Hyde? Iupati, Anthony Davis if he comes out of retirement. There is being a homer and defending your team but Baalke has done nothing to merit it save for one homerun draft one disaster of a draft and the rest average at best.

There's a lot here, but the bold kind of stood out. Lacy was taken 70 picks - over two rounds - before Latimore. Complain about taking Vance McDonald over Lacy all you want, but silly to say Lattimore instead of Lacy. And Lacy has had his own issues (as my fantasy teams can attest...).

[CrimsonCrew]

I don't know what happened between Harbaugh and the FO, my issue is how things were handled after Harbaugh was gone. The team at least could have either promoted Fangio or at least hired Gase or someone else and kept Fangio and the other defensive staff under him in place. In 2014, the 49ers had the 5th ranked defense despite the rash of injuries and backups playing. Instead York decides to blow everything up and risk everything on Tomsula. I remember during the coaching interviews there reports out early on in the process that Tomsula was a front runner. I don't think this was Baalke's idea but Jed's.

As far as Baalke goes, it is clear at this point that he has just missed on too many draft picks and made a few free agent blunders. Yes, he has drafted serveral good players. The problem is when you look at his body of work as a whole, you don't see a guy who is building a championship roster.

Baalke supposedly wanted to hire Gase with Fangio as the DC, but at the 11th hour York changed his mind and insisted that Gase promote Tomsula to DC. So there went Fangio. Fangio would've stuck around had the 49ers hired an offensive minded coach from all the reports I read.

Do you have a source for that? I hadn't heard that. If true, it would be an incredibly asinine move by Jed.

[CrimsonCrew]

Is there anyone from the 2012 draft still in the NFL?

This caught my attention. Interestingly enough, Trenton Robinson has started seven games for the Redskins this year. I believe he was an injury replacement, and mediocre at best.

[CrimsonCrew]

Here's the thing everyone's overlooking:

Baalke could trade 1 1st rounder for 30 7th round picks...

If both teams have 1 hit, (so 1 for 1 & 1 for 30) that's all that matters. Ratios on hits and misses DON'T matter.

so what your saying is one hit makes a winner. at least that explains your blind devotion.

What he's saying is that we should evaluate drafts by the talent that comes out of them, not as compared to the number of picks. Now, I think you have to at least consider how high a team is drafting, but I agree that if two GMs are picking around the same spot, one moves around and produces 10 picks while the other moves around and takes 4, and both hit on say a pro bowler and two other starters, it doesn't ultimately matter that the one "missed" on more picks.

[Pattersonca65]

I don't know what happened between Harbaugh and the FO, my issue is how things were handled after Harbaugh was gone. The team at least could have either promoted Fangio or at least hired Gase or someone else and kept Fangio and the other defensive staff under him in place. In 2014, the 49ers had the 5th ranked defense despite the rash of injuries and backups playing. Instead York decides to blow everything up and risk everything on Tomsula. I remember during the coaching interviews there reports out early on in the process that Tomsula was a front runner. I don't think this was Baalke's idea but Jed's.

As far as Baalke goes, it is clear at this point that he has just missed on too many draft picks and made a few free agent blunders. Yes, he has drafted serveral good players. The problem is when you look at his body of work as a whole, you don't see a guy who is building a championship roster.

Baalke supposedly wanted to hire Gase with Fangio as the DC, but at the 11th hour York changed his mind and insisted that Gase promote Tomsula to DC. So there went Fangio. Fangio would've stuck around had the 49ers hired an offensive minded coach from all the reports I read.

Do you have a source for that? I hadn't heard that. If true, it would be an incredibly asinine move by Jed.

Crimson, here is one report. I know its Kawakami but there were other sources for this also. I just don't want to go through them all. They basically said the same thing.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/15/report-49ers-wanted-gase-to-keep-tomsula-as-defensive-coordinator/

Key part:

[i]According to an NFL source, Gase and Baalke did indeed come very close to an agreement for Gase to replace Harbaugh, down to the details of his prospective coaching staff, and Gase understood that his choices for the coordinator spots were approved.

Tomsula’s name was not involved in the discussions with Gase about the defensive coordinator slot, I was told.

Then, the next morning, after Baalke flew back to the Bay Area, things changed: Gase, the source says, was informed that he could only have the job if he made Tomsula his defensive coordinator.

No Tomsula, no offer.

Gase turned that suggestion down flat, and that’s when the 49ers immediately tabbed Tomsula as the head coach to follow Harbaugh.
[/i]

[Jikkle]

I don't know what happened between Harbaugh and the FO, my issue is how things were handled after Harbaugh was gone. The team at least could have either promoted Fangio or at least hired Gase or someone else and kept Fangio and the other defensive staff under him in place. In 2014, the 49ers had the 5th ranked defense despite the rash of injuries and backups playing. Instead York decides to blow everything up and risk everything on Tomsula. I remember during the coaching interviews there reports out early on in the process that Tomsula was a front runner. I don't think this was Baalke's idea but Jed's.

As far as Baalke goes, it is clear at this point that he has just missed on too many draft picks and made a few free agent blunders. Yes, he has drafted serveral good players. The problem is when you look at his body of work as a whole, you don't see a guy who is building a championship roster.

Baalke supposedly wanted to hire Gase with Fangio as the DC, but at the 11th hour York changed his mind and insisted that Gase promote Tomsula to DC. So there went Fangio. Fangio would've stuck around had the 49ers hired an offensive minded coach from all the reports I read.

Do you have a source for that? I hadn't heard that. If true, it would be an incredibly asinine move by Jed.

It's never been confirmed but if you connect the dots it's the most logical conclusion. The talks from what I understand went pretty deep and it's unlikely that if Tomsula had to be DC from the onset those talks would've lasted long.

So the likely scenario was Baalke had everything hammered out and was ready to go with Gase as coach and when he reported back to Jed and Marathe the question was "What about Tomsula?" and that's where the 11th hour add came in and that's when talks fell apart. With as in love with Tomsula as the Yorks are it makes sense they would still want to push him up the ladder and get him that much closer to being the head coach.

[Pattersonca65]

Baalke supposedly wanted to hire Gase with Fangio as the DC, but at the 11th hour York changed his mind and insisted that Gase promote Tomsula to DC. So there went Fangio. Fangio would've stuck around had the 49ers hired an offensive minded coach from all the reports I read.

Do you have a source for that? I hadn't heard that. If true, it would be an incredibly asinine move by Jed.

It's never been confirmed but if you connect the dots it's the most logical conclusion. The talks from what I understand went pretty deep and it's unlikely that if Tomsula had to be DC from the onset those talks would've lasted long.

So the likely scenario was Baalke had everything hammered out and was ready to go with Gase as coach and when he reported back to Jed and Marathe the question was "What about Tomsula?" and that's where the 11th hour add came in and that's when talks fell apart. With as in love with Tomsula as the Yorks are it makes sense they would still want to push him up the ladder and get him that much closer to being the head coach.

The problem is no one is going to come out and confirm that. Neither Gase nor the 49ers FO are going to confirm it publicly. It is going to come down to unnamed source(s) and whether you are willing to believe it.

[CrimsonCrew]

Baalke supposedly wanted to hire Gase with Fangio as the DC, but at the 11th hour York changed his mind and insisted that Gase promote Tomsula to DC. So there went Fangio. Fangio would've stuck around had the 49ers hired an offensive minded coach from all the reports I read.

Do you have a source for that? I hadn't heard that. If true, it would be an incredibly asinine move by Jed.

Crimson, here is one report. I know its Kawakami but there were other sources for this also. I just don't want to go through them all. They basically said the same thing.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/15/report-49ers-wanted-gase-to-keep-tomsula-as-defensive-coordinator/

Key part:

[i]According to an NFL source, Gase and Baalke did indeed come very close to an agreement for Gase to replace Harbaugh, down to the details of his prospective coaching staff, and Gase understood that his choices for the coordinator spots were approved.

Tomsula’s name was not involved in the discussions with Gase about the defensive coordinator slot, I was told.

Then, the next morning, after Baalke flew back to the Bay Area, things changed: Gase, the source says, was informed that he could only have the job if he made Tomsula his defensive coordinator.

No Tomsula, no offer.

Gase turned that suggestion down flat, and that’s when the 49ers immediately tabbed Tomsula as the head coach to follow Harbaugh.
[/i]

Okay. That does actually ring a bell. Thanks. Not saying Gase would have been the answer, but he couldn't very well have been worse....

[CrimsonCrew]

Jed needs to just get the hell out of the football operations. Tinkering owners are almost never successful.

[Jikkle]

Baalke supposedly wanted to hire Gase with Fangio as the DC, but at the 11th hour York changed his mind and insisted that Gase promote Tomsula to DC. So there went Fangio. Fangio would've stuck around had the 49ers hired an offensive minded coach from all the reports I read.

Do you have a source for that? I hadn't heard that. If true, it would be an incredibly asinine move by Jed.

Crimson, here is one report. I know its Kawakami but there were other sources for this also. I just don't want to go through them all. They basically said the same thing.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/15/report-49ers-wanted-gase-to-keep-tomsula-as-defensive-coordinator/

Key part:

[i]According to an NFL source, Gase and Baalke did indeed come very close to an agreement for Gase to replace Harbaugh, down to the details of his prospective coaching staff, and Gase understood that his choices for the coordinator spots were approved.

Tomsula’s name was not involved in the discussions with Gase about the defensive coordinator slot, I was told.

Then, the next morning, after Baalke flew back to the Bay Area, things changed: Gase, the source says, was informed that he could only have the job if he made Tomsula his defensive coordinator.

No Tomsula, no offer.

Gase turned that suggestion down flat, and that’s when the 49ers immediately tabbed Tomsula as the head coach to follow Harbaugh.
[/i]

The amazing part to me is even after all this they would still have the gall to ask him to be the offensive coordinator which probably goes to show you how self unaware the organization is.

I mean it's like "You weren't good enough to be our head coach because you didn't want Tomsula to be your DC but would you like to work under our defensive line coach turned head coach and the guy you didn't think was good enough to be your DC?"

[Pattersonca65]

[quote="CrimsonCrew"]Jed needs to just get the hell out of the football operations. Tinkering owners are almost never successful.[/quote]

This is what is troubling about the thread above, not that they lost Gase. Not only is what you posted true above, but I don't think any top HC candidates want the FO dictating who should/should not be on their staffs.