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2020 Offseason

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CrimsonCrew
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#341 » by CrimsonCrew » Fri May 22, 2020 8:42 pm

Bingo_AlphaMan wrote:This makes no sense. Shouldn’t they wait until camp for them to evaluate not just their level of play, but everyone on the roster. That’s the reason for having mini camp and training camp:

DRE GREENLAW
LB, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS


The Athletic's David Lombardi reports the 49ers have yet to determine whether Dre Greenlaw or Kwon Alexander will be the team's starting weakside linebacker.

The loser of that battle will obviously be the team’s starting SAM linebacker, but it's still a significant competition to monitor for camp since the WLB will remain on the field in nickel packages. Greenlaw claims that he didn’t completely master the 49ers’ defensive scheme until the playoffs, but his 92 tackles and two pass breakups as a sideline-to-sideline stalwart across 725 snaps suggests otherwise. It would not be shocking to see Greenlaw win the job given Alexander's lengthy injury history (and need to limit his snaps).
SOURCE: David Lombardi on Twitter

May 20, 2020, 2:11 PM ET


I'm not optimistic we're going to have a training camp, much less a mini camp. I think it's pretty clear that one of these two guys will be starting at WLB. Alexander was a huge FA signing (granted almost certainly overpriced), and Greenlaw showed quite well last year. The only guy on the roster who could even conceivably challenge one of them is Al-Shair. But this is David Lombardi's conclusion, not that of the team.
NinerSickness
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#342 » by NinerSickness » Mon May 25, 2020 5:54 am

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Bingo_AlphaMan wrote:This makes no sense. Shouldn’t they wait until camp for them to evaluate not just their level of play, but everyone on the roster. That’s the reason for having mini camp and training camp:

DRE GREENLAW
LB, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS


The Athletic's David Lombardi reports the 49ers have yet to determine whether Dre Greenlaw or Kwon Alexander will be the team's starting weakside linebacker.

The loser of that battle will obviously be the team’s starting SAM linebacker, but it's still a significant competition to monitor for camp since the WLB will remain on the field in nickel packages. Greenlaw claims that he didn’t completely master the 49ers’ defensive scheme until the playoffs, but his 92 tackles and two pass breakups as a sideline-to-sideline stalwart across 725 snaps suggests otherwise. It would not be shocking to see Greenlaw win the job given Alexander's lengthy injury history (and need to limit his snaps).
SOURCE: David Lombardi on Twitter

May 20, 2020, 2:11 PM ET


I'm not optimistic we're going to have a training camp, much less a mini camp. I think it's pretty clear that one of these two guys will be starting at WLB. Alexander was a huge FA signing (granted almost certainly overpriced), and Greenlaw showed quite well last year. The only guy on the roster who could even conceivably challenge one of them is Al-Shair. But this is David Lombardi's conclusion, not that of the team.


The fact that the Niners kept Kwon & didn't sign a CB is one of the most insane things the Niners have done since starting Person over Brunskill. :crazy:
Samurai
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#343 » by Samurai » Mon May 25, 2020 6:13 pm

NinerSickness wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Bingo_AlphaMan wrote:This makes no sense. Shouldn’t they wait until camp for them to evaluate not just their level of play, but everyone on the roster. That’s the reason for having mini camp and training camp:

DRE GREENLAW
LB, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS


The Athletic's David Lombardi reports the 49ers have yet to determine whether Dre Greenlaw or Kwon Alexander will be the team's starting weakside linebacker.

The loser of that battle will obviously be the team’s starting SAM linebacker, but it's still a significant competition to monitor for camp since the WLB will remain on the field in nickel packages. Greenlaw claims that he didn’t completely master the 49ers’ defensive scheme until the playoffs, but his 92 tackles and two pass breakups as a sideline-to-sideline stalwart across 725 snaps suggests otherwise. It would not be shocking to see Greenlaw win the job given Alexander's lengthy injury history (and need to limit his snaps).
SOURCE: David Lombardi on Twitter

May 20, 2020, 2:11 PM ET


I'm not optimistic we're going to have a training camp, much less a mini camp. I think it's pretty clear that one of these two guys will be starting at WLB. Alexander was a huge FA signing (granted almost certainly overpriced), and Greenlaw showed quite well last year. The only guy on the roster who could even conceivably challenge one of them is Al-Shair. But this is David Lombardi's conclusion, not that of the team.


The fact that the Niners kept Kwon & didn't sign a CB is one of the most insane things the Niners have done since starting Person over Brunskill. :crazy:

Keeping Kwon didn't surprise me in the least, considering that they restructured his contract way back on November 23 (3+ weeks after his pec injury). The restructured deal lowered his 2020 salary from $11.25M to $976,235 and saved the team $8.1M in cap room. As far as CB, I think the team would have drafted one if they had traded back so that they could acquire some day 2 picks, but I don't think they saw anyone on day 3 that they felt would make the team. It would seem that they don't see an urgent need to upgrade CB for 2020 and are willing to deal with 2021 later. It would seem that they are again banking on having an overwhelming pass rush (assuming Dee Ford is healthy) will mask any deficiencies in pass coverage if the QB doesn't have enough time to exploit our DB's.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#344 » by Samurai » Mon May 25, 2020 6:35 pm

I am excited to see what we can do with our new TE Charlie Woerner. He was drafted to be our blocking TE to replace Toilolo's role. But Woerner seems to be a much better athlete who is capable of being more than just a designated blocker. In high school, his team was playing a very dangerous mobile QB and his coach inserted Woerner as a free safety responsible for being the spy on the QB (Woerner also set Rabun County marks in several sprint and hurdle events. And as a senior, he won the Georgia state discus title). Woerner finished that game with 30 tackles, including 25 solo tackles!

In college, the team's scheme needed him to be a blocking TE so he only had 34 catches for his college career. Since there is very little tape of him being used as a receiver, he was available late in the draft. But the Niner coaches noted that on those few receptions, he displayed excellent hands. Plus they struck gold when drafting another "blocking TE" late in the draft named Kittle, who only had 46 catches in college due to being used as a blocker. Now Woerner is not nearly as fast as Kittle (very few TE's are!), but his versatility and athleticism make him an intriguing weapon for a mad scientist like Shanahan to be able to use him as a "Kittle-lite" option for Jimmy G (who excels in short, quick passes) in addition to his blocking skill in the run game. I am interested to see what Woerner can do for us in a Shanahan system.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#345 » by Jikkle » Fri May 29, 2020 7:57 pm

https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/137077-49ers-offseason-surgery-involving-extensive-cleanup-feels-great/

Good to see how did get the surgery and got things cleaned up with his knee.

He'll always have knee issues but hopefully the surgery will allow him to play more and be even more explosive this upcoming season since there was a big difference with him not in the lineup with the pass rush.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#346 » by Bingo_AlphaMan » Sat May 30, 2020 12:14 pm

Jikkle wrote:https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/137077-49ers-offseason-surgery-involving-extensive-cleanup-feels-great/

Good to see how did get the surgery and got things cleaned up with his knee.

He'll always have knee issues but hopefully the surgery will allow him to play more and be even more explosive this upcoming season since there was a big difference with him not in the lineup with the pass rush.


We should have cut him and replace him with Jadeveon Clowney.
CrimsonCrew
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#347 » by CrimsonCrew » Sat May 30, 2020 9:36 pm

Jikkle wrote:https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/137077-49ers-offseason-surgery-involving-extensive-cleanup-feels-great/

Good to see how did get the surgery and got things cleaned up with his knee.

He'll always have knee issues but hopefully the surgery will allow him to play more and be even more explosive this upcoming season since there was a big difference with him not in the lineup with the pass rush.


If he's even close to healthy, Ford is a much better pure pass rusher than Clowney. And I don't think we could have absorbed the cap hit from cutting him and signed Clowney anyway.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#348 » by wco81 » Sun May 31, 2020 3:04 pm

Kittle's agent says he wants "more than TE" money, which tops out at about $10 million a year.

WRs make $20 million a year.

Hmm, hope they scout some TEs for next year.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#349 » by CrimsonCrew » Sun May 31, 2020 11:26 pm

He deserves more. I'm confident they'll pay him. He's too important to everything they do, and is a special player in both the passing and run game. And he's much better than the top TEs in the market (Henry and Hooper). The TE market is oddly depressed. They'll pay him top-20 WR money, and it will be a relative bargain for a guy who brings so much to the team. There's little chance he gets paid like a top WR, though. That's too much of a reset for the position.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#350 » by wco81 » Sun May 31, 2020 11:34 pm

It would be hard to find a guy who's both great in the run game and a receiving threat.

But before they lay out a ton of money, they might look at players like OJ Howard who hasn't panned out. Weren't the Giants also said to be considering moving Engram?

Hell even if they sign Kittle to an extension, they should be thinking about a "move" TE as an option.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#351 » by Bingo_AlphaMan » Mon Jun 1, 2020 1:07 pm

Dodub
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#352 » by Dodub » Mon Jun 1, 2020 4:44 pm

Kittle isn’t going anywhere. It’s not out of the question for them to split the difference between WR and TE money. Somewhere around $15 million a year which would absolutely demolish the TE market. It wouldn’t matter though because outside of Kelce, there isn’t a TE in the league that’s near his level and Kelce only matches him as a receiver.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#353 » by wco81 » Mon Jun 1, 2020 5:36 pm

They could tag him a couple of times.

I think this upcoming season will be the 5th year option so his cap number will be low.

On the heels of a SB season, they're going to want to keep him. But they could dangle a carrot for an extension now, at a lower cap number, but with a big signing bonus up front so that he gets way more than the $2 million that I think he's due this year.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#354 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Jun 1, 2020 10:50 pm

They could franchise and trade him next offseason, if it came to that. But I think they re-sign him. It's a longshot that any team is going to give him $20 million. And Kittle seems like a team-first sort of guy who would give them a home-team discount. As Cohn says in the video, $14-15 million a year seems like the right number. It's a huge bump over the TE market this year (50%), but is still a relative discount for a player of Kittle's ability.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#355 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Jun 1, 2020 10:51 pm

wco81 wrote:They could tag him a couple of times.

I think this upcoming season will be the 5th year option so his cap number will be low.

On the heels of a SB season, they're going to want to keep him. But they could dangle a carrot for an extension now, at a lower cap number, but with a big signing bonus up front so that he gets way more than the $2 million that I think he's due this year.


Fifth-year option is only for first rounders. He's an unrestricted FA after this season.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#356 » by Jikkle » Tue Jun 2, 2020 5:54 am

Seeing Buckner get traded puts me in a never say never position on trading Kittle.

With that said I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to extend him because I feel the major holdup in getting a deal done is with the Covid mess there is uncertainty in how it'll impact the cap and consider how precise the front office is when it comes to structuring contracts having that unknown with what your working with is tying their hands a bit.

Especially with the situation that the team is in where every dollar of that cap matters because they are going to want to keep as many guys as they possibly can afford.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#357 » by GS Warriors 1 » Tue Jun 2, 2020 11:15 pm

wco81 wrote:Kittle's agent says he wants "more than TE" money, which tops out at about $10 million a year.

WRs make $20 million a year.

Hmm, hope they scout some TEs for next year.


Only 2 WR's make more than 20M a year(Jones and Cooper). Most of the top tier WR market is between 16.5-19M a year. Doubt Kittle's agent is looking at a number that high, but I do think it's probably in the 15M range.
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#358 » by I_am_1z » Wed Jun 3, 2020 12:04 am

Rather trade Jimmy G than Kittle. We could probably get a mid first rounder for Jimmy G too. Perhaps, same trade partner—the Colts.
NinerSickness
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#359 » by NinerSickness » Wed Jun 3, 2020 2:18 am

Bingo_AlphaMan wrote:
Jikkle wrote:https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/137077-49ers-offseason-surgery-involving-extensive-cleanup-feels-great/

Good to see how did get the surgery and got things cleaned up with his knee.

He'll always have knee issues but hopefully the surgery will allow him to play more and be even more explosive this upcoming season since there was a big difference with him not in the lineup with the pass rush.


We should have cut him and replace him with Jadeveon Clowney.


This. Ford needs limited reps, and you can’t have too many good pass rushers.

The Ninets’ offseason isn’t making any sense. No CB?
CrimsonCrew
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Re: 2020 Offseason 

Post#360 » by CrimsonCrew » Wed Jun 3, 2020 6:47 pm

wco81 wrote:They could tag him a couple of times.

I think this upcoming season will be the 5th year option so his cap number will be low.

On the heels of a SB season, they're going to want to keep him. But they could dangle a carrot for an extension now, at a lower cap number, but with a big signing bonus up front so that he gets way more than the $2 million that I think he's due this year.


Somehow I completely missed the first sentence of this post. That is actually a valid point. The tag for TEs this past year was just about $10.6 million. For WR, it was $17.8 million. They could tag Kittle next year for maybe $11.5 million (very likely less), then tag him again in 2022 for under $14 million, and then even in 2023 for around $16.5 million. That's not at all prohibitive. I don't think that's the likely outcome, but it does give the Niners some leverage.

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