GDT: 49ERS VS RAMS

[NinerSickness]

I'm STILL firmly against giving Armstead anything close to big time money.

If he goes elsewhere AND continues to play well, congratulations to his new team. You can have him and good luck to you and constructing your defensive roster.

Understand that SO much of what I'm saying factors in what ELSE the 49ers can do with that cap space/financial commitment in order to improve the roster elsewhere. It's not just lose Armstead, do nothing, and hope someone else does what Armstead does, which I probably fall on the lower end of the scale of what I think he'll do for you in the next 5 years.

I've certainly gotten the Armstead projection wrong so far BUT I have ZERO worry about continuing to look bad if he continues to make me look that way. He can continue to try and do it elsewhere.

I will add yet again that from afar he doesn't do enough for me big picture, culture wise, roster glue guy in order for that to factor in to "paying one of your own" either. I know that feeling exists with GMs in setting culture and I'm a believer in it UP to a point unlike some fans who don't always factor in building with your own guys BUT Armstead doesn't move the needle enough in those aspects for me for that to change my opinion any either.

Plus Solly is showing something at DT. Maybe he can start next year.

[NinerSickness]

Jared Goff is such a phony. He seems completely incompetent when Gurley isn't playing.

Goff’s a good-but-not-great QB, IMO.

[wco81]

Jared Goff is such a phony. He seems completely incompetent when Gurley isn't playing.

Goff’s a good-but-not-great QB, IMO.

His ceiling may be to lose in a Super Bowl, just like your favorite CK.

At least CK carried his team to the SB, got them to another NFCCG after that.

[NinerSickness]

Jared Goff is such a phony. He seems completely incompetent when Gurley isn't playing.

Goff’s a good-but-not-great QB, IMO.

His ceiling may be to lose in a Super Bowl, just like your favorite CK.

At least CK carried his team to the SB, got them to another NFCCG after that.

The Niners pulled that off based on defense and the 2nd-best offensive supporting cast in the NFL. Goff did it with offense.

Let’s not go down the road of team success = a good QB or vice versa. There’s a reason Kaeptard lost his starting job to

Watch on YouTube

[CrimsonCrew]

Goff’s a good-but-not-great QB, IMO.

His ceiling may be to lose in a Super Bowl, just like your favorite CK.

At least CK carried his team to the SB, got them to another NFCCG after that.

The Niners pulled that off solitude defense and the 2nd-best offensive supporting cast in the NFL. Goff did it with offense.

Let’s not go down the road of team success = a good QB or vice versa. There’s a reason Kaeptard lost his starting job to

Watch on YouTube

That's a bit of a distortion. Goff had a defensive player of the year wrecking shop while he was sitting on the bench. They weren't stellar across the board, but they were a good defense. And, perhaps more importantly, they really stepped up in the playoffs, allowing some of the better offenses in the league to score 22, 23, and 13 points. The Niners' D was incredible in the regular season, but struggled once Justin Smith got hurt (even though he played). They allowed 31, 24, and 34 points in the playoffs.

And second-best offensive supporting cast in the NFL? Whaaaaa? The Niners' top receivers were Crabtree, Mario Manningham, and an ancient Randy Moss. Their OL was good, but only okay in pass protection. That group of players pales in comparison to what Goff had last year, and the playcalling wasn't even in the same universe.

I'm not saying that Kaepernick is or was better than Goff. But as of right now, it's not at all clear that they're that far apart. Goff has a lot left to prove.

[NinerSickness]

That's a bit of a distortion. Goff had a defensive player of the year wrecking shop while he was sitting on the bench. They weren't stellar across the board, but they were a good defense.

Right. A good defense. Kaeptard had the best or 2nd-best defense in the NFL in those years.

And second-best offensive supporting cast in the NFL? Whaaaaa? The Niners' top receivers were Crabtree, Mario Manningham, and an ancient Randy Moss. Their OL was good, but only okay in pass protection. That group of players pales in comparison to what Goff had last year, and the playcalling wasn't even in the same universe.

Best OL in the NFL. Borderline HOF RB. All-pro'-or-near TE and Boldin still killing it in one of those 2 years. And don't forget Ginn, who showed that he was much better than #7 made him look.

He had absolutely no reason not to dominate except for the fact that he was football ret**ded.

[CrimsonCrew]

That's a bit of a distortion. Goff had a defensive player of the year wrecking shop while he was sitting on the bench. They weren't stellar across the board, but they were a good defense.

Right. A good defense. Kaeptard had the best or 2nd-best defense in the NFL in those years.

And second-best offensive supporting cast in the NFL? Whaaaaa? The Niners' top receivers were Crabtree, Mario Manningham, and an ancient Randy Moss. Their OL was good, but only okay in pass protection. That group of players pales in comparison to what Goff had last year, and the playcalling wasn't even in the same universe.

Best OL in the NFL. Borderline HOF RB. All-pro'-or-near TE and Boldin still killing it in one of those 2 years. And don't forget Ginn, who showed that he was much better than #7 made him look.

He had absolutely no reason not to dominate except for the fact that he was football ret**ded.

The D was not great in Kap's SB run. They were struggling, and Kap did largely carry the team.

The OL was elite at run-blocking, but only solid at pass-blocking. I love Gore, but he's a borderline HOFer because of his incredible longevity and durability more than his pure ability. At his best, he was very, very good. But the reason he's borderline is because he never really hit those truly dominant heights. Davis was very good at TE. Boldin wasn't with the team during the SB run, of course. He was good after that, but he and Crabtree were probably too similar as would-be complementary receivers. And Ginn only played with Kaepernick in 2012, a year in which he saw two targets. That just goes back to playcalling, though.

Right now, Goff is looking like a guy who flourished in a great situation, but hasn't been able to maintain it as teams have caught on and his supporting cast has slipped a bit. He's a young guy, so there's plenty of time to turn it around. Kap never became a QB as opposed to an athlete. Goff still has a solid shot, but he's got to show a heck of a lot of growth from where he's been to date this season.

[NinerSickness]

The D was not great in Kap's SB run. They were struggling, and Kap did largely carry the team.

Que???

2012: 2nd in Yards per pass allowed; T-3rd yards per rush allowed.

2013: (year with Boldin) 7th in both categories.

And they were in the same division as the Seahawks.

The OL was elite at run-blocking, but only solid at pass-blocking.

Not true. Not even close.

I love Gore, but he's a borderline HOFer because of his incredible longevity and durability more than his pure ability. At his best, he was very, very good. But the reason he's borderline is because he never really hit those truly dominant heights.

What does this have to do with anything? You're super-emphasizing any possible negative here. Gore was a top-3 or 5 RB in the league. And the stuff about Boldin: he was there when Kaeptard got a delay of game on 3rd & 1 in the NFCCG in Seattle. He was there for a SB run.

Name a team besides the Falcons who had a better supporting cast on offense from 2012 to 2013.

[CrimsonCrew]

The D was not great in Kap's SB run. They were struggling, and Kap did largely carry the team.

Que???

2012: 2nd in Yards per pass allowed; T-3rd yards per rush allowed.

2013: (year with Boldin) 7th in both categories.

And they were in the same division as the Seahawks.

The OL was elite at run-blocking, but only solid at pass-blocking.

Not true. Not even close.

I love Gore, but he's a borderline HOFer because of his incredible longevity and durability more than his pure ability. At his best, he was very, very good. But the reason he's borderline is because he never really hit those truly dominant heights.

What does this have to do with anything? You're super-emphasizing any possible negative here. Gore was a top-3 or 5 RB in the league. And the stuff about Boldin: he was there when Kaeptard got a delay of game on 3rd & 1 in the NFCCG in Seattle. He was there for a SB run.

Name a team besides the Falcons who had a better supporting cast on offense from 2012 to 2013.

I'm focusing primarily on the 2012 season and 2012-13 postseason. That's what I'm referring to as the SB run. In the playoffs that year, Justin Smith was injured and the D wasn't right. I posted the points allowed above. We needed Kap to carry the team and he did step up. The D was better in the 2013 playoff run, allowing 20 points (in a brutally cold game in GB), 10 points, and 23. Kap was the offense in the GB game. The D was great against Carolina. It was also great at Seattle, except for three plays that cost us the game (combined with Kap's inability to throw the ball).

Again, I'm not saying Kap was a great QB. He wasn't. He took the league a bit by storm, but progressively regressed as teams figured him out. His story is written and it's hindsight now. Goff is still in the early chapters. But right now, today, he's not obviously a more effective NFL QB than Kap was. He's been a major liability this season and at the end of last season. We'll see if he turns it around.

[wco81]

They don't win in Atlanta in the NFC CG without CK carrying them back.

They don't win at GB and at Carolina without CK carrying them.

Of course he destroyed GB another year.

[NinerSickness]

I'm focusing primarily on the 2012 season and 2012-13 postseason. That's what I'm referring to as the SB run. In the playoffs that year, Justin Smith was injured and the D wasn't right. I posted the points allowed above. We needed Kap to carry the team and he did step up.

He "stepped up" by choking when it mattered.

What's the point of this? That he had some hot streaks before defenses figured him out? That happens with a lot of running QBs. They all suck in the end (except Young & Rodgers).

Again, I'm not saying Kap was a great QB. He wasn't.

He wasn't even average. He was a one-trick pony who ended up sucking out loud when defenses figured out his trick. That's backup-QB material. He's about as good as Blaine Gabbert.

[CrimsonCrew]

I'm focusing primarily on the 2012 season and 2012-13 postseason. That's what I'm referring to as the SB run. In the playoffs that year, Justin Smith was injured and the D wasn't right. I posted the points allowed above. We needed Kap to carry the team and he did step up.

He "stepped up" by choking when it mattered.

What's the point of this? That he had some hot streaks before defenses figured him out? That happens with a lot of running QBs. They all suck in the end (except Young & Rodgers).

Again, I'm not saying Kap was a great QB. He wasn't.

He wasn't even average. He was a one-trick pony who ended up sucking out loud when defenses figured out his trick. That's backup-QB material. He's about as good as Blaine Gabbert.

If we're talking choking, his team scored more than three points in the super bowl. A lot more.

Kap was better than Gabbert, but the fact that it's even a discussion is admittedly sad. You're right that he was ineffective once defenses figured him out. My point is that, right now, Goff isn't any better. You're making excuses for one and holding the strengths of his team against the other. If you look at the two players objectively - not in terms of how they play, but the ultimate product - they aren't nearly as different right now as you're making them out to be.

[Pattersonca65]

I'm focusing primarily on the 2012 season and 2012-13 postseason. That's what I'm referring to as the SB run. In the playoffs that year, Justin Smith was injured and the D wasn't right. I posted the points allowed above. We needed Kap to carry the team and he did step up.

He "stepped up" by choking when it mattered.

What's the point of this? That he had some hot streaks before defenses figured him out? That happens with a lot of running QBs. They all suck in the end (except Young & Rodgers).

Again, I'm not saying Kap was a great QB. He wasn't.

He wasn't even average. He was a one-trick pony who ended up sucking out loud when defenses figured out his trick. That's backup-QB material. He's about as good as Blaine Gabbert.

If we're talking choking, his team scored more than three points in the super bowl. A lot more.

Kap was better than Gabbert, but the fact that it's even a discussion is admittedly sad. You're right that he was ineffective once defenses figured him out. My point is that, right now, Goff isn't any better. You're making excuses for one and holding the strengths of his team against the other. If you look at the two players objectively - not in terms of how they play, but the ultimate product - they aren't nearly as different right now as you're making them out to be.

Gabbert took over for a injured and shell shocked Kaep who played behind one of the worst pass blocking offensive lines. Not to say Kap had his issues but that was awful. They finally made changes after. Gabbert is the ultimate ruse. He fools people by coming off the bench and playing decently and then reverts back to the same old Gabbert once he is named permanent starter like what happened to Gabbert under Kelly. I remember Gabbert playing a couple of decent games for the Arizona Cardinals and their fans saying on a team board that Gabbert might be a good starter for a period. As soon as Gabbert was given the chance to permanently start he reverted back to his old self. I remember Az fans telling SF fans that warned them they were right.

[NinerSickness]

If we're talking choking, his team scored more than three points in the super bowl. A lot more.

And that's why I never said Goff was a great QB. He's better than the mediocre QBs like Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott & a few others.

Kap was better than Gabbert, but the fact that it's even a discussion is admittedly sad.

Exactly. We're talking about a guy (Blaine) who isn't even good enough to be a backup QB. Kaeptard is in that general area. He could probably be a backup if he accepted backup money, but that would probably do something like void his lawsuit.

[CrimsonCrew]

If we're talking choking, his team scored more than three points in the super bowl. A lot more.

And that's why I never said Goff was a great QB. He's better than the mediocre QBs like Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott & a few others.

Kap was better than Gabbert, but the fact that it's even a discussion is admittedly sad.

Exactly. We're talking about a guy (Blaine) who isn't even good enough to be a backup QB. Kaeptard is in that general area. He could probably be a backup if he accepted backup money, but that would probably do something like void his lawsuit.

Goff is more talented than those other guys, but if he can't figure out how to play under pressure, he won't make it in the league. At least not as an impact player.