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2023 Offseason

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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#21 » by Samurai » Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:25 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:Really interesting article in The Athletic about Purdy's cognitive ability. I'll summarize here, as I know a lot of people don't have an Athletic subscription.

Apparently in addition to the Wonderlic, they've been giving guys a test called the S2 Cognition Test since 2015 that tests how quickly individuals can take in and react to information (seemingly mostly non-verbal, like shapes, images, etc.), impulse control, etc. Purdy scored in the mid-90s, along with guys like Brees, Burrow, Mahomes, and Allen.

There's a strong correlation between a good score and success as an NFL passer (and other positions to an extent, too). Of 27 starting NFL QBs who had taken the test, 13 had ratings above 90. Those 13 players averaged a score of 91. Obviously there could be some outliers, but not many with a score that high. The 14 guys with ratings below 90 averaged in the 60s (which is still probably good for an average person, but not elite).

Of note:

As for the 49ers’ other young quarterback, Trey Lance?

Ally couldn’t reveal the exact number but said Lance “scored well.”

“He’s not in the Brock Purdy range but he didn’t score poorly,” he said.


When we talk about a QB's tools, this is the sort of thing that we never really seem to discuss. But it's every bit as important, and very likely more important, than the pure physical tools. There will never be a shortage of a big, strong guys who can throw a football. But can they throw it accurately to the right place? Jury is still out in Lance's case.

From that same article (for those wondering what the relevancy of the S2 means), Brandon Ally (neuroscientist and co-founder of S2) said that it means "the game will never be too fast for Brock. I don't think he'll ever have trouble adjusting." While it would be fantastic if Brock magically grew 3 more inches, developed a stronger arm and suddenly ran a 4.4 40, being similar to a young Drew Brees would be something I'd love to have in a starting QB.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#22 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:58 am

Jikkle wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:Really interesting article in The Athletic about Purdy's cognitive ability. I'll summarize here, as I know a lot of people don't have an Athletic subscription.

Apparently in addition to the Wonderlic, they've been giving guys a test called the S2 Cognition Test since 2015 that tests how quickly individuals can take in and react to information (seemingly mostly non-verbal, like shapes, images, etc.), impulse control, etc. Purdy scored in the mid-90s, along with guys like Brees, Burrow, Mahomes, and Allen.

There's a strong correlation between a good score and success as an NFL passer (and other positions to an extent, too). Of 27 starting NFL QBs who had taken the test, 13 had ratings above 90. Those 13 players averaged a score of 91. Obviously there could be some outliers, but not many with a score that high. The 14 guys with ratings below 90 averaged in the 60s (which is still probably good for an average person, but not elite).

Of note:

As for the 49ers’ other young quarterback, Trey Lance?

Ally couldn’t reveal the exact number but said Lance “scored well.”

“He’s not in the Brock Purdy range but he didn’t score poorly,” he said.


When we talk about a QB's tools, this is the sort of thing that we never really seem to discuss. But it's every bit as important, and very likely more important, than the pure physical tools. There will never be a shortage of a big, strong guys who can throw a football. But can they throw it accurately to the right place? Jury is still out in Lance's case.


I've always said that the ability to process information is absolutely vital for a QB and it's something you either have or you don't.

Most media and fans unfortunately mix it up with overall intelligence and they are two separate things. You can be extremely smart but you still might not be able to answer a question with a gun to your head and less than 2 seconds to answer it before the trigger is pulled.

That's why when it came to Justin Fields I didn't care if he had a photographic memory because all that meant is he'd remember the exact number of the guy he threw the pick too. The question was never if Fields was intelligent but if he could quickly process information which not everyone is born with.

In the case of this S2 Cognition Test you'd really have to know who scored what to analyze just how much it contributes to a QB's success. You'd have to know who are the 13 guys that scored high and who are the 14 guys that didn't to judge how much it contributes to a QBs success.

It doesn't change the question of if Purdy's physical abilities are going to limit him in his career. Because Mahomes, Allen, and Burrow are right there with him and they are all clearly more physically gifted than he is and odds are you'll be seeing one of those guys in the Super Bowl so Purdy can't rely on being the smarter guy in those matchups.


Yeah, reaction time is hugely important in the league. A QB's ability to see things and make throws in turbulent environments is arguably the single most important thing for an NFL QB, and it's the reason that a lot of these guys have flamed out.

You're right that that was the major question with Fields. I'd be very curious about how well he scored. I think it's also something of a question for Lance, it's just harder to assess as he has so few reps in college and the pros. My view, without that information, was that Fields was the better athlete and was head-and-shoulders better throwing the ball. That's why I strongly preferred him to Lance, but there was always the caveat that it's difficult to assess some of this processing stuff from the game tape alone. And honestly, Lance has some real questions about that, too.

We'll see. Hopefully both Lance and Purdy pan out and we have a good problem on our hands. Drew Brees is a really high bar, but Purdy really was pretty remarkable as a rookie. The question is whether he can continue to develop, and can eventually carry a team when he doesn't have the best collection of skill players in the league. Obviously step one is getting over the torn UCL.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#23 » by wco81 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 11:42 pm

Gould is going to free agency.

That could be an issue, may have to spend a relatively high pick for a top kicker.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#24 » by Jikkle » Tue Mar 7, 2023 3:48 am

CrimsonCrew wrote:Really interesting article in The Athletic about Purdy's cognitive ability. I'll summarize here, as I know a lot of people don't have an Athletic subscription.

Apparently in addition to the Wonderlic, they've been giving guys a test called the S2 Cognition Test since 2015 that tests how quickly individuals can take in and react to information (seemingly mostly non-verbal, like shapes, images, etc.), impulse control, etc. Purdy scored in the mid-90s, along with guys like Brees, Burrow, Mahomes, and Allen.

There's a strong correlation between a good score and success as an NFL passer (and other positions to an extent, too). Of 27 starting NFL QBs who had taken the test, 13 had ratings above 90. Those 13 players averaged a score of 91. Obviously there could be some outliers, but not many with a score that high. The 14 guys with ratings below 90 averaged in the 60s (which is still probably good for an average person, but not elite).

Of note:

As for the 49ers’ other young quarterback, Trey Lance?

Ally couldn’t reveal the exact number but said Lance “scored well.”

“He’s not in the Brock Purdy range but he didn’t score poorly,” he said.


When we talk about a QB's tools, this is the sort of thing that we never really seem to discuss. But it's every bit as important, and very likely more important, than the pure physical tools. There will never be a shortage of a big, strong guys who can throw a football. But can they throw it accurately to the right place? Jury is still out in Lance's case.


https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/167451-49ers-lance-scored-closer-brock-cognitive-suggested-co-founder/

Just a follow-up to this story as it seems Lance wasn't Purdy level but close so it doesn't sound like this aspect from Lance will be an issue.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#25 » by Jikkle » Tue Mar 7, 2023 3:53 am

wco81 wrote:Gould is going to free agency.

That could be an issue, may have to spend a relatively high pick for a top kicker.


We've got plenty of picks in prime Kicker taking range so it's more of an issue of taking the right guy than having to spend a pick on one.

I mean going to a rookie Kicker would basically save us like 4 to 5 million on the cap so that's a pretty big savings for a team that's going to need to use every penny wisely.

While Gould was great he just felt a little shakey over the past two years so I don't think having to move on from him is a terrible loss.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#26 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Mar 7, 2023 6:18 pm

Jikkle wrote:
wco81 wrote:Gould is going to free agency.

That could be an issue, may have to spend a relatively high pick for a top kicker.


We've got plenty of picks in prime Kicker taking range so it's more of an issue of taking the right guy than having to spend a pick on one.

I mean going to a rookie Kicker would basically save us like 4 to 5 million on the cap so that's a pretty big savings for a team that's going to need to use every penny wisely.

While Gould was great he just felt a little shakey over the past two years so I don't think having to move on from him is a terrible loss.


I just hope it's a 5th (or later) and not a 3rd if we're going in that direction. FO's history suggests it could very well be a 3rd.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#27 » by wco81 » Tue Mar 7, 2023 7:41 pm

They won games by bigger margins last season than in previous season. But they still needed Gould to make those clutch FGs.

With the unsettled QB situation, a reliable kicker may be more of a must than a luxury.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#28 » by CrimsonCrew » Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:58 am

Niners earn seven comp picks, most in the league by three. That includes 99, 101, and 102. They also picked up a fifth, sixth, and two sevenths. Most projections I'd seen had them at ten, so we're getting an extra seventh, looks like.

Next year, they'll get one in the third for losing Ran Carthon, and should be in line to net a third and maybe a fourth for losing Garoppolo and McGlinchey. It's not a bad way to build a team, especially as they have been pretty good with those later picks.

Also worth noting that they have made some really good draft pick trades for players, particularly sending a 5th (I think) to Detroit for Laken Tomlinson and a 6th to Houston for Charles Omenihu. Both players have dramatically outperformed the cost of those trades.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#29 » by CrimsonCrew » Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:59 am

Colton McKivitz extended for two years. He could be starting sooner than later as we may need to replace both OTs within the next two years.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#30 » by CrimsonCrew » Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:25 pm

Successful surgery for Brock, and they didn't have to do the more involved procedure.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#31 » by Pattersonca65 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:28 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:Colton McKivitz extended for two years. He could be starting sooner than later as we may need to replace both OTs within the next two years.


Do you think Trent WIlliams will be gone within the next couple of years?
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#32 » by CrimsonCrew » Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:45 pm

Pattersonca65 wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:Colton McKivitz extended for two years. He could be starting sooner than later as we may need to replace both OTs within the next two years.


Do you think Trent WIlliams will be gone within the next couple of years?


He mentioned retirement this year. I wouldn't be shocked.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#33 » by Jikkle » Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:08 am

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Pattersonca65 wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:Colton McKivitz extended for two years. He could be starting sooner than later as we may need to replace both OTs within the next two years.


Do you think Trent WIlliams will be gone within the next couple of years?


He mentioned retirement this year. I wouldn't be shocked.


Eh I know he mentioned it but he was asked right after the season ended and that's at the point where you're most physically and emotionally beat up and it's not unusual to feel like you don't want to do it anymore.

Once you recharge your batteries and more importantly realize just how much money you would be leaving on the table you tend to feel like you're ready to go again.

Not saying he wasn't serious but I tend to feel it was more of an emotional gut feeling when he mentioned retirement than him seriously contemplating it.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#34 » by Samurai » Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:36 am

Jikkle wrote:
wco81 wrote:Gould is going to free agency.

That could be an issue, may have to spend a relatively high pick for a top kicker.


We've got plenty of picks in prime Kicker taking range so it's more of an issue of taking the right guy than having to spend a pick on one.

I mean going to a rookie Kicker would basically save us like 4 to 5 million on the cap so that's a pretty big savings for a team that's going to need to use every penny wisely.

While Gould was great he just felt a little shakey over the past two years so I don't think having to move on from him is a terrible loss.

If Gould leaves, we will clearly lose a bit in terms of his accuracy and consistency. But he doesn't have the strongest leg in the league and since Wish hasn't been the kickoff king we had hoped for, using a 40-year old in that capacity isn't helping us. Plus since Gould doesn't always deliver a touchback, I worry that he will look like Olive Oil in a cage match with prime Mike Tyson. If we can save cap money and get someone who regularly kicks it out of the endzone and can be a scoring threat up to 60 yards, I think that would/should be acceptable to the team.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#35 » by Jikkle » Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:52 am

https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/167567-49ers-re-signing-safety-tashaun-gipson-1-year-deal/

Pretty good value signing as I thought he played well and actually has a nose for the ball to pick it off.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#36 » by Jikkle » Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:57 am

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I thought he played better as the season went on but I just was never impressed with him and Center is one area that I still think needs an upgrade.

Looks like we're set on the left side and hopefully Burford develops into a quality starting RG which it felt like he showed flashes.

I just feel this draft they should be aggressive in beefing up the offensive line and even defensive line as I doubt Kinlaw and Armstead are the teams long-term plans.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#37 » by arich35 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:21 pm

I wonder if we are going to make a bigger FA signing this year. Really would like to spend on OL and DL at this point
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#38 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:42 pm

I don't think we have the cap space to spend big on a FA. We need to put that money toward re-signing Bosa and filling out a couple gaping holes with passable talent.

Re-signing Gipson to a cheap deal makes sense. Probably a strong indication that the longest-tenured Niner is on his way out in Jimmie Ward, but that's the nature of the business. Got to find a guy to fill that FS spot long-term.
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#39 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:28 pm

Word is Jimmy G. is looking for at least $25 million/year. I hope he gets it. We need that third-round pick....
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Re: 2023 Offseason 

Post#40 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:44 pm

Jason Kelce suggesting he's not retiring. He seems like a good guy and is a great player, but I was hoping he'd leave and the Eagles would be a little weaker. Granted they drafted his presumptive replacement last year.

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