2022 Offseason thread

[Pattersonca65]

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Another good day of practice for Lance but it is OTA's so the excitement should be measured. But as I've said in the past it's better to hear good things than bad things regardless of the situation.

The main thing that gets me excited is hearing he looks like a fast processor. Processing speed is just one of those things that all great QBs and it's something that you're born with and you are either capable of it or not. To me it's one of the hardest things for teams to evaluate and one of the biggest reasons why QBs fail. Almost all these kids drafted are physically gifted and are smart but being able to answer the question correctly on a whiteboard but it's another thing when you have just under 3 seconds to answer that same question.

Mechanics can be improved if you put the work in but your ability to process information quickly and the natural physical gifts you have can't be which is why I'm bullish on Lance ultimately succeeding even if it's rough in the beginning.

It is all OTA hype. Every year we get a list of OTA pro bowlers. Deandre Carter was killing it in OTAs. The next stud WR for the 49ers. Hopefully Lance is ready to go and fixes his issues from last year. He has to learn not to throw 100 MPH fastballs when throwing five yard passes and work on his accuracy issues.

[CrimsonCrew]

As Jikkle said, at this point, much better to hear positive reviews than negative. But only so much you can read into the positive reviews. That said, in my experience, Middlekauff and Haberman are pretty fair evaluators. They don't want to alienate the team, but they will be analytically critical when appropriate. And the fast processing is going to be crucial for Lance. It's the one area where he might have a clear advantage over Fields, who likely improvised too much in college for Shanahan's tastes. If Lance can see the field and make a decision quickly, it will go a long way in Shanahan's offense, and will reduce some of the importance of pinpoint accuracy.

Also, as Cohn noted (and he's been a big fan of Lance's, generally), Lance has yet to hit a deep pass in front of the media. Still very much a work in progress in some areas as a thrower of the football. He's got the capability to do it, but his deep ball throwing in college was a problem.

[Pattersonca65]

As Jikkle said, at this point, much better to hear positive reviews than negative. But only so much you can read into the positive reviews. That said, in my experience, Middlekauff and Haberman are pretty fair evaluators. They don't want to alienate the team, but they will be analytically critical when appropriate. And the fast processing is going to be crucial for Lance. It's the one area where he might have a clear advantage over Fields, who likely improvised too much in college for Shanahan's tastes. If Lance can see the field and make a decision quickly, it will go a long way in Shanahan's offense, and will reduce some of the importance of pinpoint accuracy.

Also, as Cohn noted (and he's been a big fan of Lance's, generally), Lance has yet to hit a deep pass in front of the media. Still very much a work in progress in some areas as a thrower of the football. He's got the capability to do it, but his deep ball throwing in college was a problem.

I am less concerned about what he does with longer passes than he does on some of his shorter and mid range throws. I thought he did ok last year throwing down the field.

[CrimsonCrew]

I was reading up on Jake Brendel a little bit as he's looking all but certain to be our starting center. He's an interesting...I want to say prospect, but that's not right for a guy who has been in the league for six years. Three-time captain at UCLA. Elite movement skills. Mockdraftable's top two physical comps are Kelce and Mangold (https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jake-brendel), which is elevated company to keep. That said, he has really short arms and small hands - though Kelce does, too.

Foerster coached him when he was with the Dolphins, and he was a favorite, but he was cut almost immediately by the Broncos and Ravens after that. But he's got the physical tools to succeed, and some experience with the coaching staff. The hope is that he can make the calls and be in the ballpark of a league average center, and given his background, I think that's at least possible.

As I've noted previously, given how things shook out with Jurgens and Parham in the draft, there wasn't anyone we were realistically going to get there who would have profiled better than Dohnovan West anyway.

[CrimsonCrew]

As Jikkle said, at this point, much better to hear positive reviews than negative. But only so much you can read into the positive reviews. That said, in my experience, Middlekauff and Haberman are pretty fair evaluators. They don't want to alienate the team, but they will be analytically critical when appropriate. And the fast processing is going to be crucial for Lance. It's the one area where he might have a clear advantage over Fields, who likely improvised too much in college for Shanahan's tastes. If Lance can see the field and make a decision quickly, it will go a long way in Shanahan's offense, and will reduce some of the importance of pinpoint accuracy.

Also, as Cohn noted (and he's been a big fan of Lance's, generally), Lance has yet to hit a deep pass in front of the media. Still very much a work in progress in some areas as a thrower of the football. He's got the capability to do it, but his deep ball throwing in college was a problem.

I am less concerned about what he does with longer passes than he does on some of his shorter and mid range throws. I thought he did ok last year throwing down the field.

Agreed. If he can hit one deep ball a game, it will be an improvement over Jimmy. And Kyle can get guys really open downfield, it's just a matter of getting the ball into their vicinity.

[Pattersonca65]

I was reading up on Jake Brendel a little bit as he's looking all but certain to be our starting center. He's an interesting...I want to say prospect, but that's not right for a guy who has been in the league for six years. Three-time captain at UCLA. Elite movement skills. Mockdraftable's top two physical comps are Kelce and Mangold (https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jake-brendel), which is elevated company to keep. That said, he has really short arms and small hands - though Kelce does, too.

Foerster coached him when he was with the Dolphins, and he was a favorite, but he was cut almost immediately by the Broncos and Ravens after that. But he's got the physical tools to succeed, and some experience with the coaching staff. The hope is that he can make the calls and be in the ballpark of a league average center, and given his background, I think that's at least possible.

As I've noted previously, given how things shook out with Jurgens and Parham in the draft, there wasn't anyone we were realistically going to get there who would have profiled better than Dohnovan West anyway.

Brendal is getting some OTA hype right now. I won't write him off, but i just can't take any of it too seriously. As you mentioned about the Broncos and Ravens, there is a shortage of quality lineman in this league, that guys that are even average will find a home in the NFL. The fact that he wasn't good enough to make these rosters gives me concern that he will be good enough to be a full time starter.

[CrimsonCrew]

Yeah, it's a huge risk to go into the season with Brendel starting at center. Just to clarify, I think the odds of him being below average are much higher than being average. That said, teams rarely keep a backup at the true center position. There aren't enough roster spots, and backup OL typically need to be versatile. So I do think good - or at least solid - players can wind up off rosters and then kind of pop up out of nowhere. Hopefully that's the case here.

The Panthers picked up Bradley Bozeman in FA, who is a solid, young-ish (27) center who started for Baltimore last year, on a one-year, $2.8 million deal. If we'd known Mack was retiring, I would have easily agreed to that deal to solidify the spot. Though Bozeman may be more of a power blocker. Not many players at center who are more interesting than that in FA (Tretter apparently has significant injury concerns), and the draft didn't shake out well for us to take a guy who was any better than West as a prospect.

They have some interesting players who should be competing for the center spot in the future. West probably needs a season or two to bulk up. Zakelj has some potential, but is really raw in general and hasn't played the position before. And Poe is also very raw and quite undersized, but has elite athleticism. I'd love to see one of these guys grab that spot for the longterm, but it's highly unlikely to happen this year.

[CrimsonCrew]

In terms of my post above, I was mostly surprised by Brendel's testing numbers, which really are very good. Granted he apparently weighed 286 at the combine. It gave me some hope as I was otherwise feeling like we are screwed. Still mostly feel that way, but trying to be optimistic at this point in the offseason.

[CrimsonCrew]

Another random thought, again, based in part on practice reports that we can't really rely on. But, I really like the way the receiving corps is shaping up. It's a nice mix of players who should complement one another well.

Samuel and Aiyuk are both very good all-around receivers who have real versatility. Aiyuk is probably a bit more of a deep threat, but both guys can really do it all. Jennings brings nice size, route-running, power, and sure-handedness for duty on third-and-mediums and in the red zone. McCloud seems to have some shiftiness and could do well in the slot. And then Gray is a bit of a dark horse with his elite speed to either threaten deep or take advantage of soft coverage as the third or fourth receiver and threaten to take a dump-off or end-around the distance. Maybe we keep one more, but as things stand, I'd be fine with going into the season with those five guys.

[Jikkle]

As Jikkle said, at this point, much better to hear positive reviews than negative. But only so much you can read into the positive reviews. That said, in my experience, Middlekauff and Haberman are pretty fair evaluators. They don't want to alienate the team, but they will be analytically critical when appropriate. And the fast processing is going to be crucial for Lance. It's the one area where he might have a clear advantage over Fields, who likely improvised too much in college for Shanahan's tastes. If Lance can see the field and make a decision quickly, it will go a long way in Shanahan's offense, and will reduce some of the importance of pinpoint accuracy.

Also, as Cohn noted (and he's been a big fan of Lance's, generally), Lance has yet to hit a deep pass in front of the media. Still very much a work in progress in some areas as a thrower of the football. He's got the capability to do it, but his deep ball throwing in college was a problem.

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Hit back to back deep balls so while I don't think it'll be a staple of his I do think he'll have a more than adequate deep ball especially once he starts getting reps with the starters and gets a better feel of hitting them deep. Because to me when you throw it deep you're basically throwing it to a spot that you think your WR will be so yes you have to have plain ole accuracy but you also have to have feel for the speed of the guy you're throwing it too. So it's a mix of being able to place the ball exactly where you want it but also knowing where that spot is going to be based on who you're throwing to.

Based on the Shanahan offense I think he'd be completely happy if Lance just hits one of those a game and anything more would be a sweet bonus. I think Shanahan sees the deep pass as a counterpunch to make defenses pay if they invest too much to stop the run. I'm sure his ideal offense is one that runs the ball and when a defense plays to stop the run he passes over their heads and forcing them into a bind by struggling to defend both aspects of his offense.

[Jikkle]

In terms of my post above, I was mostly surprised by Brendel's testing numbers, which really are very good. Granted he apparently weighed 286 at the combine. It gave me some hope as I was otherwise feeling like we are screwed. Still mostly feel that way, but trying to be optimistic at this point in the offseason.

You know thinking about it while I'm in that feeling of Brendel not working out I will him a chance of being the Mostert of Centers for Shanahan's offense.

Shanahan's offense might just be the perfect fit for his skill set much like Mostert who was basically a special teams guy was ultimately able to blossom in Shanahan's offense because it fit him like a glove.

[Jikkle]

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Most of the concerns highlighted are the same things we are concerned with.

I do feel most of his issues can and will be ironed out over time but we'll see just how ironed out they become.

I tend to believe that we as heavily invested fans get tunnel vision in flaws with the team's players and coaches and we just forget that every team's coaches and players have flaws and make mistakes every week.

My only real disagreement with the video is in Lance's running of the ball. Not that I don't agree with the fact that he isn't a dynamic runner I just don't believe the team drafted him because they thought he was going to be a dynamic runner. I think they felt like he's running was effective enough that it could be utilized but not that they were going to make him Lamar Jackson or anything.

I do agree with the concern that he has to avoid taking as much punishment. I know it's hard for these guys to turn off that thing in their head to tells them to get every inch you can but he really needs to just get what he can get and get down as soon as someone can hit him. Obviously some game situations call for you to put your body on the line to get that 1st down or score but I don't need to see him take a hit getting an extra half yard in the 2nd quarter in week 4 or something.

[CrimsonCrew]

Pretty fair. The accuracy remains the prevailing concern for me until Lance shows it's not an issue. He's got to be able to hit open looks consistently. Of course, his processing and reading will be necessary to get to those open looks, and the benefit of the Shanahan system is that he should have open looks when he's making the right reads (I was never all that enamored with Jimmy's field vision), but once he has those looks, he will still need to be able to hit some tight window throws.

The good news is that Lance is already exhibiting the leadership skills that he reportedly had coming into the league, and seems to be making strides in a notoriously dense playbook. If he truly gets it, he could be elite in this system, but he's got to, got to, got to clean up his mechanics and master throwing a consistent, accurate ball. If he can't do that, the rest of it may not matter.

[CrimsonCrew]

A couple interesting speculations by national media re: Garoppolo that I wanted to touch on.

Louis Riddick was saying that the Seahawks should sign Garoppolo when the Niners inevitably cut him. Obviously cutting Garoppolo is the likeliest outcome at this point, but I'm still holding out hope they find some trade for him. That said, Riddick was saying the Niners wouldn't trade him in the division. I'm not seeing that. I get the logic behind it, but if they're cutting him anyway, and a trade would allow them to get something for him, I wouldn't have a problem moving him within the division. Garoppolo makes Seattle slightly better, but they still aren't a playoff contender with him. And if they want him, they'll get him anyway. Might as well turn it into something if we can, though again, I don't know that we can.

I still think Cleveland is the most logical place for Jimmy to go, though it's a huge longshot. But it's looking increasingly like Watson will face a significant suspension, and they are a team with a stacked roster and pressure to win now. If Mayfield refuses to play for them - which, again, would be incredibly dumb of him as it's likely his only avenue to starting this year, but it seems like he may be that pissed off - they need a competent QB to weather the storm until they get Watson back. Garoppolo is the only guy available who fits that description.

That said, Dan Graziano was pushing for the Niners and Browns to swap QBs. Interestingly, in defense of that position, he notes that it makes sense for Cleveland for the reasons stated above, and Mayfield gets to work with Shanahan. He doesn't really touch on why it would make sense for the Niners to bring in a $19 million malcontent to back up their second-year QB. Sure, they'd save like $7 million, but that's a drop in the bucket and not worth the headache. It's not like we could revitalize Mayfield's value and trade him in the offseason. I'd rather just cut Jimmy and get the full cap savings. I'd look to shop Garoppolo for a second or third. If Cleveland wants us to eat a portion of Mayfield's contract, we're starting to talk about a fair bit more than that. They can't realistically give up more firsts, and I don't think a second does it for us to eat that much cap space. Either way, a head-up swap of those two guys is pretty ludicrous from the Niners' perspective, unless they have substantial concerns about Lance.

[CrimsonCrew]

A couple interesting speculations by national media re: Garoppolo that I wanted to touch on.

Louis Riddick was saying that the Seahawks should sign Garoppolo when the Niners inevitably cut him. Obviously cutting Garoppolo is the likeliest outcome at this point, but I'm still holding out hope they find some trade for him. That said, Riddick was saying the Niners wouldn't trade him in the division. I'm not seeing that. I get the logic behind it, but if they're cutting him anyway, and a trade would allow them to get something for him, I wouldn't have a problem moving him within the division. Garoppolo makes Seattle slightly better, but they still aren't a playoff contender with him. And if they want him, they'll get him anyway. Might as well turn it into something if we can, though again, I don't know that we can.

I still think Cleveland is the most logical place for Jimmy to go, though it's a huge longshot. But it's looking increasingly like Watson will face a significant suspension, and they are a team with a stacked roster and pressure to win now. If Mayfield refuses to play for them - which, again, would be incredibly dumb of him as it's likely his only avenue to starting this year, but it seems like he may be that pissed off - they need a competent QB to weather the storm until they get Watson back. Garoppolo is the only guy available who fits that description.

That said, Dan Graziano was pushing for the Niners and Browns to swap QBs. Interestingly, in defense of that position, he notes that it makes sense for Cleveland for the reasons stated above, and Mayfield gets to work with Shanahan. He doesn't really touch on why it would make sense for the Niners to bring in a $19 million malcontent to back up their second-year QB. Sure, they'd save like $7 million, but that's a drop in the bucket and not worth the headache. It's not like we could revitalize Mayfield's value and trade him in the offseason. I'd rather just cut Jimmy and get the full cap savings. I'd look to shop Garoppolo for a second or third. If Cleveland wants us to eat a portion of Mayfield's contract, we're starting to talk about a fair bit more than that. They can't realistically give up more firsts, and I don't think a second does it for us to eat that much cap space. Either way, a head-up swap of those two guys is pretty ludicrous from the Niners' perspective, unless they have substantial concerns about Lance.

Grant must be trawling this board for content. Posted this like an hour after my post above:

https://www.si.com/nfl/49ers/news/will-the-49ers-trade-jimmy-garoppolo-to-the-cleveland-browns

[Jikkle]

A couple interesting speculations by national media re: Garoppolo that I wanted to touch on.

Louis Riddick was saying that the Seahawks should sign Garoppolo when the Niners inevitably cut him. Obviously cutting Garoppolo is the likeliest outcome at this point, but I'm still holding out hope they find some trade for him. That said, Riddick was saying the Niners wouldn't trade him in the division. I'm not seeing that. I get the logic behind it, but if they're cutting him anyway, and a trade would allow them to get something for him, I wouldn't have a problem moving him within the division. Garoppolo makes Seattle slightly better, but they still aren't a playoff contender with him. And if they want him, they'll get him anyway. Might as well turn it into something if we can, though again, I don't know that we can.

I still think Cleveland is the most logical place for Jimmy to go, though it's a huge longshot. But it's looking increasingly like Watson will face a significant suspension, and they are a team with a stacked roster and pressure to win now. If Mayfield refuses to play for them - which, again, would be incredibly dumb of him as it's likely his only avenue to starting this year, but it seems like he may be that pissed off - they need a competent QB to weather the storm until they get Watson back. Garoppolo is the only guy available who fits that description.

That said, Dan Graziano was pushing for the Niners and Browns to swap QBs. Interestingly, in defense of that position, he notes that it makes sense for Cleveland for the reasons stated above, and Mayfield gets to work with Shanahan. He doesn't really touch on why it would make sense for the Niners to bring in a $19 million malcontent to back up their second-year QB. Sure, they'd save like $7 million, but that's a drop in the bucket and not worth the headache. It's not like we could revitalize Mayfield's value and trade him in the offseason. I'd rather just cut Jimmy and get the full cap savings. I'd look to shop Garoppolo for a second or third. If Cleveland wants us to eat a portion of Mayfield's contract, we're starting to talk about a fair bit more than that. They can't realistically give up more firsts, and I don't think a second does it for us to eat that much cap space. Either way, a head-up swap of those two guys is pretty ludicrous from the Niners' perspective, unless they have substantial concerns about Lance.

Jimmy G on the Seahawks doesn't scare me in the least. That's not to say he wouldn't play well with them because they basically want to do the same thing on offense as we do it's just that I don't see him playing well enough that it's scary. I just think Shanahan manufactured a lot of Jimmy G's passes and unless Waldron their OC is another Shanahan I don't see him having the same success.

The only outcomes I see for Jimmy G are he's released or he's traded with a redone contract. The only way I see the 9ers taking on any sort of money is if the picks they get in return make it worth taking the money on. The cap space is just too valuable to them to take on money and they know they'll need it if they want to get the guys they want long-term under contract.

I'd consider the Browns a team to watch because I do think if Watson gets slammed with a year suspension they'll be in the market for Jimmy G if they know Mayfield playing one more season for them is completely a lost cause.

[CrimsonCrew]

Yeah, we can't eat any of that contract unless we're getting at least a second back, IMO. And even then, I would only eat like $10 million. We need that savings to support the team around Lance. Otherwise, we traded all those picks and will also struggle to retain FAs.

That's why we really can't keep Jimmy on the roster. You lose the benefit of a cheap QB, and if Lance is any good, we may have to extend him to a big contract after year three. The days of holding onto a good young QB for five years before extending him appear to be gone.

[CrimsonCrew]

I thought I had posted this previously, but apparently not. Jason Poe is really undersized, but he's actually a pretty close comp to Shaq Mason, who has developed into a very solid player in the league. Granted Mason is already a huge outlier in terms of his size, and Poe is even smaller, but it's encouraging to see that at least one guy with similar physical dimensions has excelled in the league. The comparison (didn't format properly the first time, so I'm re-posting):

Poe
Height 6005
Weight 300 lbs.
Arm Length 32"
Hand Size 10 3/4"
40 4.95
10 Split 1.75
Bench 34
Vertical 31 1/2"
Broad 9'03"
Shuttle 4.52
3-Cone 7.52

Mason
Height 6016
Weight 304 lbs.
Arm Length 32 1/8"
Hand Size 9 1/2"
40 4.99
10 Split 1.75
Bench 25
Vertical 32"
Broad 9'02"
Shuttle 4.65
3-Cone 7.53

Anyway, Poe is a huge longshot to hit. Very undersized, and raw to boot, but there is a path given his elite athleticism.

[clyde21]

i've never seen a QB dissected this much in his second off-season with a team, every practice, every throw, it's so weird.

[CrimsonCrew]

i've never seen a QB dissected this much in his second off-season with a team, every practice, every throw, it's so weird.

Frankly, I think a lot of it stems from so much of the national media being wrong about the pick. They all thought we were going to go with Mac Jones, and they looked bad when we didn't. So they latch onto any sign that Shanahan didn't really like the pick and isn't committed to him, and they jump at any indication that Shanahan is falling short of expectations.