2022 Offseason thread

[clyde21]

i've never seen a QB dissected this much in his second off-season with a team, every practice, every throw, it's so weird.

Frankly, I think a lot of it stems from so much of the national media being wrong about the pick. They all thought we were going to go with Mac Jones, and they looked bad when we didn't. So they latch onto any sign that Shanahan didn't really like the pick and isn't committed to him, and they jump at any indication that Shanahan is falling short of expectations.

so...national media being toxic af again?

shocking.

[CrimsonCrew]

Haha. Right?

[CrimsonCrew]

Meant to say any indication that Lance is falling short of expectations in my earlier post.

[CrimsonCrew]

Tartt signed with the Eagles. So much for that fallback option. Sure hope Hufanga is ready.

[Jikkle]

i've never seen a QB dissected this much in his second off-season with a team, every practice, every throw, it's so weird.

It's one of the most bizarre and stupidest narratives I've seen in a long time.

They don't talk about Lance it's an issue. They talk about Lance which means they are trying to sell him and it's an issue. Jimmy G can't possibly be on the roster because the 9ers think they can trade him once he's 100% but it's because they doubt Lance. You have guys claiming the 9ers think Lance is a disappointment because apparently coaches and players are willing to talk to them but we haven't heard a peep from any of the local reporters. Then you have the whole is Lance ready or not argument because he hasn't played enough so he needs experience to play but he can't play because he doesn't have experience.

As far as the fan side of things go I just think we are all guilty of being so hyperfocused on the team that we lose perspective on the fact every player has flaws in their game even the best of them. So we just nitpick everything that isn't absolute perfection when it's rarely absolutely perfection in games.

For me my expectations are I want Week 18 Lance to be noticeably improved over Week 1 Lance. I expect bad games because that's part of the growing pains of the position. NFL defenses do a lot to fool you and often time what you gameplan isn't what you'll see and only by experience from seeing lots of different tactics by defenses are you able to adjust on the fly. I do expect him to be overall an upgrade over Jimmy G this season just by virtue of him putting the ball in harm's way less and his ability to legitimately attack more of the field will open up the run game since defenses will have a harder time crowding the box if Lance can throw it over their heads.

[Jikkle]

I thought I had posted this previously, but apparently not. Jason Poe is really undersized, but he's actually a pretty close comp to Shaq Mason, who has developed into a very solid player in the league. Granted Mason is already a huge outlier in terms of his size, and Poe is even smaller, but it's encouraging to see that at least one guy with similar physical dimensions has excelled in the league. The comparison (didn't format properly the first time, so I'm re-posting):

Poe
Height 6005
Weight 300 lbs.
Arm Length 32"
Hand Size 10 3/4"
40 4.95
10 Split 1.75
Bench 34
Vertical 31 1/2"
Broad 9'03"
Shuttle 4.52
3-Cone 7.52

Mason
Height 6016
Weight 304 lbs.
Arm Length 32 1/8"
Hand Size 9 1/2"
40 4.99
10 Split 1.75
Bench 25
Vertical 32"
Broad 9'02"
Shuttle 4.65
3-Cone 7.53

Anyway, Poe is a huge longshot to hit. Very undersized, and raw to boot, but there is a path given his elite athleticism.

He does have a shot since a lot of his weaknesses will be masked in the type of offense that we run.

I do like this one tidbit I read on one of his scouting reports.

"He's infinitely coachable and athletically gifted with the ideal frame, physique, weight distribution, knee bend and hand strength to be molded into a special blocker."

So that does give me some hope that with the proper coaching and effort on his part he can be successful in the league at least.

[Jikkle]

i've never seen a QB dissected this much in his second off-season with a team, every practice, every throw, it's so weird.

Frankly, I think a lot of it stems from so much of the national media being wrong about the pick. They all thought we were going to go with Mac Jones, and they looked bad when we didn't. So they latch onto any sign that Shanahan didn't really like the pick and isn't committed to him, and they jump at any indication that Shanahan is falling short of expectations.

I believe that the Shanahan of a couple of years ago would've picked Mac Jones which is why I think the national media was convinced the pick was going to be Jones.

Pure speculation from here on out but the Shanahan prior to the Super Bowl loss thought a special QB was a luxury and all he needed was a guy that could execute his offense because the scheme was going to get guys open.

Starting with the Super Bowl loss and culminating with the loss to the Bills on MNF a couple years ago I think Shanahan finally realized that he needs special at the position. No matter how well it's schemed and called you're going to find yourself in situations where you need a guy to play hero ball and just make plays happen on his own.

With Lance I'm more convinced he was the guy all along and not Mac Jones because I think in Shanahan's mind at least with Lance he has the high football IQ that can operate the offense how Shanahan wants but the physical gifts the handful of special plays that Shanahan knows he needs.

I actually don't think Lance will ever be in the MVP running or put up gaudy numbers because if the offense is working as intended the passing game is going to be there to prop up and support the running game. Lance doesn't strike me as the gunslinger type like a Mahomes but more the Manning type that's going to want to surgically dice up a defense.

[CrimsonCrew]

I thought I had posted this previously, but apparently not. Jason Poe is really undersized, but he's actually a pretty close comp to Shaq Mason, who has developed into a very solid player in the league. Granted Mason is already a huge outlier in terms of his size, and Poe is even smaller, but it's encouraging to see that at least one guy with similar physical dimensions has excelled in the league. The comparison (didn't format properly the first time, so I'm re-posting):

Poe
Height 6005
Weight 300 lbs.
Arm Length 32"
Hand Size 10 3/4"
40 4.95
10 Split 1.75
Bench 34
Vertical 31 1/2"
Broad 9'03"
Shuttle 4.52
3-Cone 7.52

Mason
Height 6016
Weight 304 lbs.
Arm Length 32 1/8"
Hand Size 9 1/2"
40 4.99
10 Split 1.75
Bench 25
Vertical 32"
Broad 9'02"
Shuttle 4.65
3-Cone 7.53

Anyway, Poe is a huge longshot to hit. Very undersized, and raw to boot, but there is a path given his elite athleticism.

He does have a shot since a lot of his weaknesses will be masked in the type of offense that we run.

I do like this one tidbit I read on one of his scouting reports.

"He's infinitely coachable and athletically gifted with the ideal frame, physique, weight distribution, knee bend and hand strength to be molded into a special blocker."

So that does give me some hope that with the proper coaching and effort on his part he can be successful in the league at least.

Ideal frame seems like a stretch for a guy who didn't hit 6'1" and has 32" arms. But he's got a shot at a position of need.

[Pattersonca65]

i've never seen a QB dissected this much in his second off-season with a team, every practice, every throw, it's so weird.

Frankly, I think a lot of it stems from so much of the national media being wrong about the pick. They all thought we were going to go with Mac Jones, and they looked bad when we didn't. So they latch onto any sign that Shanahan didn't really like the pick and isn't committed to him, and they jump at any indication that Shanahan is falling short of expectations.

so...national media being toxic af again?

shocking.

We now live in a 24/7/365 media age and it is now the NFL offseason so the media is going to struggle with keeping the airwaves filled with content. As far as Lance is concerned, the 49ers gave up a bunch of draft capital to get him including the #3 pick. Lance was the least experienced QB taken in the first round and was seen as the biggest project by scouts. The fact that he was taken so high in the draft and with his age and limited experience there is going be scrutiny about him until he proves himself. He is certainly not the first QB to take such scrutiny but because we haven't been in a position to take a QB so high in a long time and he is our guy, we tend to pay attention to it more.

[Pattersonca65]

i've never seen a QB dissected this much in his second off-season with a team, every practice, every throw, it's so weird.

Frankly, I think a lot of it stems from so much of the national media being wrong about the pick. They all thought we were going to go with Mac Jones, and they looked bad when we didn't. So they latch onto any sign that Shanahan didn't really like the pick and isn't committed to him, and they jump at any indication that Shanahan is falling short of expectations.

I believe that the Shanahan of a couple of years ago would've picked Mac Jones which is why I think the national media was convinced the pick was going to be Jones.

Pure speculation from here on out but the Shanahan prior to the Super Bowl loss thought a special QB was a luxury and all he needed was a guy that could execute his offense because the scheme was going to get guys open.

Starting with the Super Bowl loss and culminating with the loss to the Bills on MNF a couple years ago I think Shanahan finally realized that he needs special at the position. No matter how well it's schemed and called you're going to find yourself in situations where you need a guy to play hero ball and just make plays happen on his own.

With Lance I'm more convinced he was the guy all along and not Mac Jones because I think in Shanahan's mind at least with Lance he has the high football IQ that can operate the offense how Shanahan wants but the physical gifts the handful of special plays that Shanahan knows he needs.

I actually don't think Lance will ever be in the MVP running or put up gaudy numbers because if the offense is working as intended the passing game is going to be there to prop up and support the running game. Lance doesn't strike me as the gunslinger type like a Mahomes but more the Manning type that's going to want to surgically dice up a defense.

I don't think it is special as much as Shanahan really has a thing against mobile QBs who have limited ability playing from the pocket. Shanahan has stated in the past his issue with mobile QBs and how they rely too much on their legs when things start to break down. I don't think drafting Lance was some sea change in Shanahan's approach to QBs. Shanahan seems to believe that Lance can play effectively from the pocket and execute his offense and his mobility will be an addition.

[CrimsonCrew]

Meant to respond to the MVP thing. Sure, all else being equal, Shanahan is going to lean on the run when he can. And despite what the metrics say, I think there's something to it in today's NFL. Teams have geared up to defend the pass and struggle to defend the run. We've seen that in both our playoff runs under him, despite mediocre at best QB play. But Ryan was the MVP under Shanahan, and if Lance can instill the same level of trust (we're probably talking years down the road), Shanahan will make more use of him. And if he does, an MVP is certainly in the cards.

[CrimsonCrew]

Grant Cohn had an article where he identifies the biggest concern for Lance as injury. Definitely a legit concern given what we saw last year, though he protected himself better in the Texans game than he did against Arizona (that was not sustainable). That said, he leads off the article by saying this:

Trey Lance is the most gifted quarterback I've seen come out of college in my lifetime. He's a faster Andrew Luck, meaning there's nothing Lance can't do well. So if he fails to become a superstar, he won't fail because of his mobility, his arm strength, his accuracy, his intelligence, his work ethic, his leadership or even his spiral. Those aspects of his game should not be concerns.

That is certifiably insane. He is nowhere near as accurate as the top passers, and he doesn't have near the mobility of the best runners. He has a lot going for him, including physical gifts and seemingly mental capability. But calling him the most gifted QB to come out of college in Cohn's lifetime - which includes players like Luck and Peyton Manning - is pretty absurd.

[thesack12]

Grant Cohn had an article where he identifies the biggest concern for Lance as injury. Definitely a legit concern given what we saw last year, though he protected himself better in the Texans game than he did against Arizona (that was not sustainable). That said, he leads off the article by saying this:

Trey Lance is the most gifted quarterback I've seen come out of college in my lifetime. He's a faster Andrew Luck, meaning there's nothing Lance can't do well. So if he fails to become a superstar, he won't fail because of his mobility, his arm strength, his accuracy, his intelligence, his work ethic, his leadership or even his spiral. Those aspects of his game should not be concerns.

That is certifiably insane. He is nowhere near as accurate as the top passers, and he doesn't have near the mobility of the best runners. He has a lot going for him, including physical gifts and seemingly mental capability. But calling him the most gifted QB to come out of college in Cohn's lifetime - which includes players like Luck and Peyton Manning - is pretty absurd.

Lance is a click seeking, self righteous jerk.

I used to find him entertaining and seek out his content, but the last couple years I just find him to be very cringe.

[thesack12]

So Watson's disciplinary hearing is finally set to begin in 2 days.

Word on the street is that the NFL will be seeking an indefinite type situation with a 1 year minimum. Of course the NFLPA and the appeals process will extend out the timeline after the initial rulings.

However If does indeed turn out to be that steep, Cleveland could very well make a play for Jimmy. Supposedly Jimmy is on schedule to begin his throwing program in early July which is soon.

I just don't see how either the Browns or Mayfield himself could or would be interested in rekindling their association. I can see Mayfield being traded to Seattle (or Carolina) and Cleveland trading for Jimmy. It could be via a 3 way trade, or just 2 separate moves but there is a pathway there.

Cleveland has a decent chunk of available cap, and moving some or all of Baker's money off their books makes it even more feasible to fit Jimmy in for them.

Or nothing ends up materializing on the Jimmy front, and they just wind up releasing him.

We shall see what happens.

[Jikkle]

So Watson's disciplinary hearing is finally set to begin in 2 days.

Word on the street is that the NFL will be seeking an indefinite type situation with a 1 year minimum. Of course the NFLPA and the appeals process will extend out the timeline after the initial rulings.

However If does indeed turn out to be that steep, Cleveland could very well make a play for Jimmy. Supposedly Jimmy is on schedule to begin his throwing program in early July which is soon.

I just don't see how either the Browns or Mayfield himself could or would be interested in rekindling their association. I can see Mayfield being traded to Seattle (or Carolina) and Cleveland trading for Jimmy. It could be via a 3 way trade, or just 2 separate moves but there is a pathway there.

Cleveland has a decent chunk of available cap, and moving some or all of Baker's money off their books makes it even more feasible to fit Jimmy in for them.

Or nothing ends up materializing on the Jimmy front, and they just wind up releasing him.

We shall see what happens.

I'd be surprised if Watson didn't get a year and while I'm sure the Browns would just rather stick with Baker I think that bridge might be too burned for it to work.

Jimmy G simply becomes their best option at that point. Browns run the same offense and they are built like the 9ers with a strong running game and defense so Jimmy G could quickly get up to speed without much effort.

The sticking point is the money and how willing the Browns are about taking it on or if Jimmy is willing to take a pay cut to play for them. If Watson is suspended a season that frees up his money for that season and that's a 10 million cap hit off the Browns' books.

So what I could see is assuming Watson is out the year they'll take that 10 million and pay part of Baker's salary in a trade to Seattle or the Panthers and have more than enough cap space to pay Jimmy G his 25 million for the season.

[Jikkle]

Grant Cohn had an article where he identifies the biggest concern for Lance as injury. Definitely a legit concern given what we saw last year, though he protected himself better in the Texans game than he did against Arizona (that was not sustainable). That said, he leads off the article by saying this:

Trey Lance is the most gifted quarterback I've seen come out of college in my lifetime. He's a faster Andrew Luck, meaning there's nothing Lance can't do well. So if he fails to become a superstar, he won't fail because of his mobility, his arm strength, his accuracy, his intelligence, his work ethic, his leadership or even his spiral. Those aspects of his game should not be concerns.

That is certifiably insane. He is nowhere near as accurate as the top passers, and he doesn't have near the mobility of the best runners. He has a lot going for him, including physical gifts and seemingly mental capability. But calling him the most gifted QB to come out of college in Cohn's lifetime - which includes players like Luck and Peyton Manning - is pretty absurd.

Injury is my biggest concern with Lance right now. Has to learn to get his yards and get down.

I don't need to see him fighting for an extra yard in the 2nd quarter of week 4 to make it 2nd and 6 instead of 2nd and 7. There are times you've got to put your body on the line in critical moments but the vast majority of the time it should be run and when you feel a guy coming get down and slide.

I tend to think injuries won't be a concern because his finger injury was just one of those things that could happen to any QB hitting their finger on a helmet and I don't see him running like he did against the Cardinals with constant run calls up the middle.

As far as Lance's talent goes it's going to depend on two things to me and that's how mentally capable he actually is and how much can he clean up his mechanics thus cleaning up his accuracy.

If he's on the level of Peyton or Brady mentally that's a scary combination with his physical talent if he can be more consistent with his accuracy.

With his accuracy it needs to be cleaned up for sure but I also don't think it's as massive of an issue as it's made out to be. I mean his one full season in college his completion percentage was 66.9% so it's not like he was just awful with his accuracy. I just think you want to see him put the ball in better spots for his receivers to make a play after the catch and want to see less bad misses.

Will be interesting to see training camp and preseason. While his numbers seemed fine in minicamp we'll have to see when the pads come on and we get more game like scenarios for him to throw in.

[CrimsonCrew]

Grant Cohn had an article where he identifies the biggest concern for Lance as injury. Definitely a legit concern given what we saw last year, though he protected himself better in the Texans game than he did against Arizona (that was not sustainable). That said, he leads off the article by saying this:

Trey Lance is the most gifted quarterback I've seen come out of college in my lifetime. He's a faster Andrew Luck, meaning there's nothing Lance can't do well. So if he fails to become a superstar, he won't fail because of his mobility, his arm strength, his accuracy, his intelligence, his work ethic, his leadership or even his spiral. Those aspects of his game should not be concerns.

That is certifiably insane. He is nowhere near as accurate as the top passers, and he doesn't have near the mobility of the best runners. He has a lot going for him, including physical gifts and seemingly mental capability. But calling him the most gifted QB to come out of college in Cohn's lifetime - which includes players like Luck and Peyton Manning - is pretty absurd.

Injury is my biggest concern with Lance right now. Has to learn to get his yards and get down.

I don't need to see him fighting for an extra yard in the 2nd quarter of week 4 to make it 2nd and 6 instead of 2nd and 7. There are times you've got to put your body on the line in critical moments but the vast majority of the time it should be run and when you feel a guy coming get down and slide.

I tend to think injuries won't be a concern because his finger injury was just one of those things that could happen to any QB hitting their finger on a helmet and I don't see him running like he did against the Cardinals with constant run calls up the middle.

As far as Lance's talent goes it's going to depend on two things to me and that's how mentally capable he actually is and how much can he clean up his mechanics thus cleaning up his accuracy.

If he's on the level of Peyton or Brady mentally that's a scary combination with his physical talent if he can be more consistent with his accuracy.

With his accuracy it needs to be cleaned up for sure but I also don't think it's as massive of an issue as it's made out to be. I mean his one full season in college his completion percentage was 66.9% so it's not like he was just awful with his accuracy. I just think you want to see him put the ball in better spots for his receivers to make a play after the catch and want to see less bad misses.

Will be interesting to see training camp and preseason. While his numbers seemed fine in minicamp we'll have to see when the pads come on and we get more game like scenarios for him to throw in.

Yeah, it wasn't the injury part of the post that really got me. That is a legit concern, but as you say, hopefully he will be smarter going forward, and our game plans should be devised to afford him more protection.

As I've said before, I think Lance has tremendous potential. There is very little he CAN'T do physically, though he's never going to be an elite runner like Lamar. The question is going to be his ability to consistently replicate positive results. His mechanics aren't great, and his passes could be quite scattershot in college. Yes, his completion percentage was high in college, but it was a run-first offense where his supporting cast was better than the opposition. He wasn't throwing to wide open receivers quite as often as Mac Jones, perhaps, but it wasn't far off. And he just flat-out missed for no good reason (no real pressure; able to see it, set his feet, and throw) on a regular basis.

All reports are that he is a unique leader, very smart, extremely dedicated. If that's all true, even with some accuracy issues, he has a chance to be very good in this system if he stays healthy. If he can also improve his accuracy, he can be elite. But there' just no way that a guy who threw 318 passes at a lower level of competition was a better prospect than Luck (1064 attempts) or Peyton Manning (1381 attempts).

[Jikkle]

Grant Cohn had an article where he identifies the biggest concern for Lance as injury. Definitely a legit concern given what we saw last year, though he protected himself better in the Texans game than he did against Arizona (that was not sustainable). That said, he leads off the article by saying this:

Trey Lance is the most gifted quarterback I've seen come out of college in my lifetime. He's a faster Andrew Luck, meaning there's nothing Lance can't do well. So if he fails to become a superstar, he won't fail because of his mobility, his arm strength, his accuracy, his intelligence, his work ethic, his leadership or even his spiral. Those aspects of his game should not be concerns.

That is certifiably insane. He is nowhere near as accurate as the top passers, and he doesn't have near the mobility of the best runners. He has a lot going for him, including physical gifts and seemingly mental capability. But calling him the most gifted QB to come out of college in Cohn's lifetime - which includes players like Luck and Peyton Manning - is pretty absurd.

Injury is my biggest concern with Lance right now. Has to learn to get his yards and get down.

I don't need to see him fighting for an extra yard in the 2nd quarter of week 4 to make it 2nd and 6 instead of 2nd and 7. There are times you've got to put your body on the line in critical moments but the vast majority of the time it should be run and when you feel a guy coming get down and slide.

I tend to think injuries won't be a concern because his finger injury was just one of those things that could happen to any QB hitting their finger on a helmet and I don't see him running like he did against the Cardinals with constant run calls up the middle.

As far as Lance's talent goes it's going to depend on two things to me and that's how mentally capable he actually is and how much can he clean up his mechanics thus cleaning up his accuracy.

If he's on the level of Peyton or Brady mentally that's a scary combination with his physical talent if he can be more consistent with his accuracy.

With his accuracy it needs to be cleaned up for sure but I also don't think it's as massive of an issue as it's made out to be. I mean his one full season in college his completion percentage was 66.9% so it's not like he was just awful with his accuracy. I just think you want to see him put the ball in better spots for his receivers to make a play after the catch and want to see less bad misses.

Will be interesting to see training camp and preseason. While his numbers seemed fine in minicamp we'll have to see when the pads come on and we get more game like scenarios for him to throw in.

Yeah, it wasn't the injury part of the post that really got me. That is a legit concern, but as you say, hopefully he will be smarter going forward, and our game plans should be devised to afford him more protection.

As I've said before, I think Lance has tremendous potential. There is very little he CAN'T do physically, though he's never going to be an elite runner like Lamar. The question is going to be his ability to consistently replicate positive results. His mechanics aren't great, and his passes could be quite scattershot in college. Yes, his completion percentage was high in college, but it was a run-first offense where his supporting cast was better than the opposition. He wasn't throwing to wide open receivers quite as often as Mac Jones, perhaps, but it wasn't far off. And he just flat-out missed for no good reason (no real pressure; able to see it, set his feet, and throw) on a regular basis.

All reports are that he is a unique leader, very smart, extremely dedicated. If that's all true, even with some accuracy issues, he has a chance to be very good in this system if he stays healthy. If he can also improve his accuracy, he can be elite. But there' just no way that a guy who threw 318 passes at a lower level of competition was a better prospect than Luck (1064 attempts) or Peyton Manning (1381 attempts).

Better prospect than Luck and Manning is a bad take.

The best argument you can make is that his raw potential gives him a higher ceiling than those guys because if he can match them with the mental side of things he beats them on the physical side but I don't think you could argue he's the better prospect coming out of the college or he'd be a Jaguar right about now.

Physically he's elite but he's not that unicorn one-of-a-kind physical specimen so how special he is will be based on largely how mentally capable he is. And that we won't fully have a grasp on until probably year 3 or 4 despite the encouraging reports on that front. As I've said in the past there is a difference between being smart and being able to process information quickly and there are a ton of QBs that are smart and have all the answers on the whiteboard but can't come up with those answers in seconds like you need to at QB.

[Dodub]

So Watson's disciplinary hearing is finally set to begin in 2 days.

Word on the street is that the NFL will be seeking an indefinite type situation with a 1 year minimum. Of course the NFLPA and the appeals process will extend out the timeline after the initial rulings.

However If does indeed turn out to be that steep, Cleveland could very well make a play for Jimmy. Supposedly Jimmy is on schedule to begin his throwing program in early July which is soon.

I just don't see how either the Browns or Mayfield himself could or would be interested in rekindling their association. I can see Mayfield being traded to Seattle (or Carolina) and Cleveland trading for Jimmy. It could be via a 3 way trade, or just 2 separate moves but there is a pathway there.

Cleveland has a decent chunk of available cap, and moving some or all of Baker's money off their books makes it even more feasible to fit Jimmy in for them.

Or nothing ends up materializing on the Jimmy front, and they just wind up releasing him.

We shall see what happens.

I'd be surprised if Watson didn't get a year and while I'm sure the Browns would just rather stick with Baker I think that bridge might be too burned for it to work.

Jimmy G simply becomes their best option at that point. Browns run the same offense and they are built like the 9ers with a strong running game and defense so Jimmy G could quickly get up to speed without much effort.

The sticking point is the money and how willing the Browns are about taking it on or if Jimmy is willing to take a pay cut to play for them. If Watson is suspended a season that frees up his money for that season and that's a 10 million cap hit off the Browns' books.

So what I could see is assuming Watson is out the year they'll take that 10 million and pay part of Baker's salary in a trade to Seattle or the Panthers and have more than enough cap space to pay Jimmy G his 25 million for the season.

The more I think about it, the more the Watson case seems like a giant money grab. The fact that none of them went to the police and instead decided to sue was my first red flag. Then the grand jury ruling that there was not sufficient evidence that a crime was committed hammered it home.

My question is, if no crime was committed and the worst that can be said is that his behavior is gross, creepy and put these women in an uncomfortable spot, is that grounds for an entire years suspension? If it is, then why weren’t these types of punishments given to Big Ben who had a criminal case or Robert Kraft who got caught doing the exact same thing Watson was doing m?

[CrimsonCrew]

Better prospect than Luck and Manning is a bad take.

The best argument you can make is that his raw potential gives him a higher ceiling than those guys because if he can match them with the mental side of things he beats them on the physical side but I don't think you could argue he's the better prospect coming out of the college or he'd be a Jaguar right about now.

Physically he's elite but he's not that unicorn one-of-a-kind physical specimen so how special he is will be based on largely how mentally capable he is. And that we won't fully have a grasp on until probably year 3 or 4 despite the encouraging reports on that front. As I've said in the past there is a difference between being smart and being able to process information quickly and there are a ton of QBs that are smart and have all the answers on the whiteboard but can't come up with those answers in seconds like you need to at QB.

I guess I struggle with the physically elite label to describe Lance relative to Luck and Manning. Certainly he's more mobile than Manning and Luck, though Luck was pretty athletic. But you could say that Jamarcus Russell was physically elite compared to those guys. Certainly Colin Kaepernick was. Just having a big arm doesn't make you physically elite as a passer.

Being a physically elite thrower of the football means possessing solid, repeatable mechanics. It means being able to throw from different arm angles, and to use and moderate touch and velocity. It means putting the ball in the right spot to protect your receiver and to maximize YAC. It means having a quick release. Lance was not a physically elite thrower of the football in college. In fact, he was kind of shaky as a thrower of the football in college. And that's the area where he needs to make significant strides to hit his potential peak.

Not saying he can't do it. Just that it's kind of a big deal - or was until Josh Allen came along and people suddenly concluded that inaccuracy is no big deal. To me, injuries aside, that has been and will remain the biggest question with Lance until he answers it.