2022 Offseason thread

[CrimsonCrew]

So Watson's disciplinary hearing is finally set to begin in 2 days.

Word on the street is that the NFL will be seeking an indefinite type situation with a 1 year minimum. Of course the NFLPA and the appeals process will extend out the timeline after the initial rulings.

However If does indeed turn out to be that steep, Cleveland could very well make a play for Jimmy. Supposedly Jimmy is on schedule to begin his throwing program in early July which is soon.

I just don't see how either the Browns or Mayfield himself could or would be interested in rekindling their association. I can see Mayfield being traded to Seattle (or Carolina) and Cleveland trading for Jimmy. It could be via a 3 way trade, or just 2 separate moves but there is a pathway there.

Cleveland has a decent chunk of available cap, and moving some or all of Baker's money off their books makes it even more feasible to fit Jimmy in for them.

Or nothing ends up materializing on the Jimmy front, and they just wind up releasing him.

We shall see what happens.

I'd be surprised if Watson didn't get a year and while I'm sure the Browns would just rather stick with Baker I think that bridge might be too burned for it to work.

Jimmy G simply becomes their best option at that point. Browns run the same offense and they are built like the 9ers with a strong running game and defense so Jimmy G could quickly get up to speed without much effort.

The sticking point is the money and how willing the Browns are about taking it on or if Jimmy is willing to take a pay cut to play for them. If Watson is suspended a season that frees up his money for that season and that's a 10 million cap hit off the Browns' books.

So what I could see is assuming Watson is out the year they'll take that 10 million and pay part of Baker's salary in a trade to Seattle or the Panthers and have more than enough cap space to pay Jimmy G his 25 million for the season.

The more I think about it, the more the Watson case seems like a giant money grab. The fact that none of them went to the police and instead decided to sue was my first red flag. Then the grand jury ruling that there was not sufficient evidence that a crime was committed hammered it home.

My question is, if no crime was committed and the worst that can be said is that his behavior is gross, creepy and put these women in an uncomfortable spot, is that grounds for an entire years suspension? If it is, then why weren’t these types of punishments given to Big Ben who had a criminal case or Robert Kraft who got caught doing the exact same thing Watson was doing m?

Having very little information on this one, it's tough to really weigh in. The lack of an indictment was a surprise, but usually a failure to indict someone makes me question the DA's office more than the case. It's really easy to get an indictment if you want one. But I have seen very little information on the criminal case.

Kraft wasn't doing the exact same thing. He was effectively hiring a prostitute. You can certainly disapprove of that behavior, and there are absolutely questions about human trafficking and the voluntariness of the sex worker's actions based on that, but it's really hard to judge those things at a remove, and it's unlikely Kraft ever used force or anything like that. The allegations that we've heard about with Watson are in the sexual assault realm. He's not entering into a contract for sex acts, he's using ambush, intimidation, and possibly force to get it - if we can believe what we've heard. I don't view that as the equivalent.

In terms of this all starting with civil suits, I get the skepticism that causes. If I'm being honest, I feel that, too. But the reality is that these sorts of acts are chronically underreported, especially against the rich and the powerful. It's pretty unlikely a victim would come forward alone, particularly when the conduct may not have risen to the level of forcible rape or something equally odious. That doesn't mean it wasn't criminal, and at the very least wasn't grossly inappropriate.

As far as length of the suspensions, Big Ben was based on single incident where the DA did not file charges and he got six games (initially; it was later reduced to four). In 2010. Standards have changed, and Watson has literally dozens of accusers. I think a longer punishment is merited. Though again, I am lacking tons of details I'd need to truly evaluate this.

[CrimsonCrew]

I've been slowly re-watching Lance's college tape. Davis game was not a good one for Lance. Two really strong TD runs that would never work in the NFL (the first one is reminiscent of the play that got him crushed against AZ), and a couple nice balls, but really not a good day throwing it.

[Jikkle]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

How convenient we're getting close to when Jimmy G will be able to throw and we're getting these stories around the same time from insiders.

Sounds like the 9ers are trying to spin the narrative that Lance is doing so well they are going with him not because they don't think Jimmy G isn't great but because they are just that impressed with Lance.

[CrimsonCrew]

Mayfield to the Panthers. Best possible thing that Could happen so far as improving the market for Jimmy. With a Watson suspension, Browns are in a jam and possible PR nightmare if the team misses the playoffs.

[Jikkle]

Watch on YouTube

More rumblings on accuracy and arm fatigue.

Arm fatigue seems to be worth keeping an eye on but as I understand it's something that's correctable and will be less of an issue the more he cleans up his mechanics.

I'll push back on Silver on a couple of points though.

The Lance package was something Shanahan cooked up on his head that sounded good on paper but in execution didn't work. I don't think shelving that was a reflection of Lance but more that the concept doesn't work.

Secondly, Shanahan already stated if they lost the Rams game they would've gone with Lance the rest of the way but they didn't and the rest is history. Given Shanahan's general reluctance to play rookies that are deemed "projects" I don't see it again as a negative towards Lance. One would just have to look at Ambry Thomas to know that Shanahan not playing a guy doesn't necessarily mean the guy can't play.

The other main thing I would push back with Silver is I get the gist of his argument that accuracy doesn't improve but on the flip side it's not set in stone for the most part either. I mean Drew Brees didn't start off with 70ish% passing and he really wasn't consistently around that number until something like his 8th year in the league prior to that he was 65% and less and in his first couple of years he wasn't over 60%.

The tough thing with Lance in that regard is he's so unpolished mechanically compared to your typical QB coming out of college he has a lot more room to grow in that area compared to say a Mac Jones who was already polished coming out so doesn't have much more room to improve mechanically.

Lance boils down to a roll of the dice on how much he can improve mechanically over the next couple of seasons. Because I do believe a lot of his accuracy issues can and will be tightened up as he improves mechanically the big question is just what that ceiling is. And I do believe he'll put every effort to improve as well but there is a ceiling for everything just like no matter how hard I workout I'll never be a world record holder in the 40 yard dash and eventually you'll hit a point no matter how hard you work you can't bust through that barrier.

[Pattersonca65]

Watch on YouTube

More rumblings on accuracy and arm fatigue.

Arm fatigue seems to be worth keeping an eye on but as I understand it's something that's correctable and will be less of an issue the more he cleans up his mechanics.

I'll push back on Silver on a couple of points though.

The Lance package was something Shanahan cooked up on his head that sounded good on paper but in execution didn't work. I don't think shelving that was a reflection of Lance but more that the concept doesn't work.

Secondly, Shanahan already stated if they lost the Rams game they would've gone with Lance the rest of the way but they didn't and the rest is history. Given Shanahan's general reluctance to play rookies that are deemed "projects" I don't see it again as a negative towards Lance. One would just have to look at Ambry Thomas to know that Shanahan not playing a guy doesn't necessarily mean the guy can't play.

The other main thing I would push back with Silver is I get the gist of his argument that accuracy doesn't improve but on the flip side it's not set in stone for the most part either. I mean Drew Brees didn't start off with 70ish% passing and he really wasn't consistently around that number until something like his 8th year in the league prior to that he was 65% and less and in his first couple of years he wasn't over 60%.

The tough thing with Lance in that regard is he's so unpolished mechanically compared to your typical QB coming out of college he has a lot more room to grow in that area compared to say a Mac Jones who was already polished coming out so doesn't have much more room to improve mechanically.

Lance boils down to a roll of the dice on how much he can improve mechanically over the next couple of seasons. Because I do believe a lot of his accuracy issues can and will be tightened up as he improves mechanically the big question is just what that ceiling is. And I do believe he'll put every effort to improve as well but there is a ceiling for everything just like no matter how hard I workout I'll never be a world record holder in the 40 yard dash and eventually you'll hit a point no matter how hard you work you can't bust through that barrier.

The " Lance Package " isn't anything new. It has been around for a very long time. I had serious doubts that it would be a successful long term strategy. A couple of teams had some success with it like the New Orlean Saints with Brees and Hill, but overall the negatives outweigh the positives. The 49ers tried something similar with both Steve Young and Kaepernick and both times that strategy was shelved. Starting QBs don't like it because it messes with their rhythm. Worse yet, it is asking Lance to come in cold and execute critical plays in the middle of a game.

[Pattersonca65]

Mayfield to the Panthers. Best possible thing that Could happen so far as improving the market for Jimmy. With a Watson suspension, Browns are in a jam and possible PR nightmare if the team misses the playoffs.

I am so over the Jimmy G saga. All I know is he really can't still be on the roster when the season starts. Technically he can. but the salary cap hit to sit on the bench is just too much. If he is not traded, then eventually he will be released. Story after story. A big 49er site has multiple stories about it with almost daily rumors. Have to say I am tired of all this drama.

[CrimsonCrew]

Because I'm crazy, I re-watched every start of Lance's career. I'm not entirely through the Central Arkansas game from 2020 (lone game that season), but I remember that one pretty well and it wasn't pretty through the air.

I'm remembering why I didn't like Lance as a prospect. He was actually markedly better early in the season, but over the last several games of the 2019 season and the "playoffs," he was downright bad throwing the ball. He often had success running the ball when the passing wasn't there, but it was a lot of those inside draw plays that are very unlikely to work at the NFL level. His college career just doesn't instill much confidence in him as a passer.

Lance is capable of making just about every throw. If you put together a highlight film, he'd look as good as any guy in the class, and potentially any guy who has come out in recent memory (see Grant Cohn's claim he's the best prospect to come out in his lifetime, which, if I'm being honest, kind of spurred this review). He has some beautiful throws to the boundary, into tight coverage, down the field, etc. But if you watch every throw, it's frankly pretty bad.

For every tough throw Lance hits, it feels like he just plain misses two, especially later in the year. A lot of his TDs - whether due to scheme or superior talent around him relative to the competition a la Mac Jones - were to guys who were just wide open. Now, some of those were downfield dimes, but others were very similar to the balls Jones got criticized for where his receivers had to slow down to haul them in, but had five steps. The offense didn't throw much in the red zone, leaning heavily on the run (granted much of that was Lance). He wasn't in many (any?) situations where he had to run a two-minute drill, go no-huddle, or rely exclusively on his passing. It's a pretty limited sample size against lesser competition, and a QB who didn't really excel as a passer.

I've said from the moment we drafted him that I would give him a chance, and nothing has changed. He's got tons of talent, and he's supposed to be even better above the shoulders than below. We needed to take a shot on a guy with major upside after moving all the picks to get him, and a smart QB may be worth more than a super-accurate QB in Shanahan's system. But Lance has a ton of work to do on his mechanics and passing consistency to become even an average NFL thrower. He's been working on it for over two years now, so let's hope it's paying dividends.

[Pattersonca65]

Because I'm crazy, I re-watched every start of Lance's career. I'm not entirely through the Central Arkansas game from 2020 (lone game that season), but I remember that one pretty well and it wasn't pretty through the air.

I'm remembering why I didn't like Lance as a prospect. He was actually markedly better early in the season, but over the last several games of the 2019 season and the "playoffs," he was downright bad throwing the ball. He often had success running the ball when the passing wasn't there, but it was a lot of those inside draw plays that are very unlikely to work at the NFL level. His college career just doesn't instill much confidence in him as a passer.

Lance is capable of making just about every throw. If you put together a highlight film, he'd look as good as any guy in the class, and potentially any guy who has come out in recent memory (see Grant Cohn's claim he's the best prospect to come out in his lifetime, which, if I'm being honest, kind of spurred this review). He has some beautiful throws to the boundary, into tight coverage, down the field, etc. But if you watch every throw, it's frankly pretty bad.

For every tough throw Lance hits, it feels like he just plain misses two, especially later in the year. A lot of his TDs - whether due to scheme or superior talent around him relative to the competition a la Mac Jones - were to guys who were just wide open. Now, some of those were downfield dimes, but others were very similar to the balls Jones got criticized for where his receivers had to slow down to haul them in, but had five steps. The offense didn't throw much in the red zone, leaning heavily on the run (granted much of that was Lance). He wasn't in many (any?) situations where he had to run a two-minute drill, go no-huddle, or rely exclusively on his passing. It's a pretty limited sample size against lesser competition, and a QB who didn't really excel as a passer.

I've said from the moment we drafted him that I would give him a chance, and nothing has changed. He's got tons of talent, and he's supposed to be even better above the shoulders than below. We needed to take a shot on a guy with major upside after moving all the picks to get him, and a smart QB may be worth more than a super-accurate QB in Shanahan's system. But Lance has a ton of work to do on his mechanics and passing consistency to become even an average NFL thrower. He's been working on it for over two years now, so let's hope it's paying dividends.

LOL, you are really into it! Well, because of all the draft picks given up for Lance, the bar is set real high. He can't just turn out to be a middle of the road QB. Anything less than top 10 will be considered a bad pick. LOL, how old is Grant Cohn? Elway was the best prospect to come out of college in my lifetime. He may not have turned out to be the best of his era but he was seen that way as a prospect. Andrew Luck was also a very high prospect. Both were much bigger prospects coming out of college than Lance.

[CrimsonCrew]

Because I'm crazy, I re-watched every start of Lance's career. I'm not entirely through the Central Arkansas game from 2020 (lone game that season), but I remember that one pretty well and it wasn't pretty through the air.

I'm remembering why I didn't like Lance as a prospect. He was actually markedly better early in the season, but over the last several games of the 2019 season and the "playoffs," he was downright bad throwing the ball. He often had success running the ball when the passing wasn't there, but it was a lot of those inside draw plays that are very unlikely to work at the NFL level. His college career just doesn't instill much confidence in him as a passer.

Lance is capable of making just about every throw. If you put together a highlight film, he'd look as good as any guy in the class, and potentially any guy who has come out in recent memory (see Grant Cohn's claim he's the best prospect to come out in his lifetime, which, if I'm being honest, kind of spurred this review). He has some beautiful throws to the boundary, into tight coverage, down the field, etc. But if you watch every throw, it's frankly pretty bad.

For every tough throw Lance hits, it feels like he just plain misses two, especially later in the year. A lot of his TDs - whether due to scheme or superior talent around him relative to the competition a la Mac Jones - were to guys who were just wide open. Now, some of those were downfield dimes, but others were very similar to the balls Jones got criticized for where his receivers had to slow down to haul them in, but had five steps. The offense didn't throw much in the red zone, leaning heavily on the run (granted much of that was Lance). He wasn't in many (any?) situations where he had to run a two-minute drill, go no-huddle, or rely exclusively on his passing. It's a pretty limited sample size against lesser competition, and a QB who didn't really excel as a passer.

I've said from the moment we drafted him that I would give him a chance, and nothing has changed. He's got tons of talent, and he's supposed to be even better above the shoulders than below. We needed to take a shot on a guy with major upside after moving all the picks to get him, and a smart QB may be worth more than a super-accurate QB in Shanahan's system. But Lance has a ton of work to do on his mechanics and passing consistency to become even an average NFL thrower. He's been working on it for over two years now, so let's hope it's paying dividends.

LOL, you are really into it! Well, because of all the draft picks given up for Lance, the bar is set real high. He can't just turn out to be a middle of the road QB. Anything less than top 10 will be considered a bad pick. LOL, how old is Grant Cohn? Elway was the best prospect to come out of college in my lifetime. He may not have turned out to be the best of his era but he was seen that way as a prospect. Andrew Luck was also a very high prospect. Both were much bigger prospects coming out of college than Lance.

I thought about Elway, and looked it up at the time. But Elway was '83, and I think Grant was born in '88. That said, there are a lot of QBs who were better PROSPECTS than Trey Lance. It's hard to come up with a top-10 draft pick with a shorter resume, to say nothing of a lower competition level. Maybe Cam Newton, but he's the only one that's really close.

I made a post a couple weeks ago - the first of several that might have gotten lost in the shuffle - about Lance and his physical abilities. Yes, Lance has elite traits. But the most important purely physical trait for a QB, IMO, is the ability to consistently deliver the ball with accuracy. It's more important than arm strength. It's certainly more important than mobility. And that's one of the areas where Lance really struggled at times in college.

[thesack12]

Grant Cohn is a tool.

Before last year's draft he was advocating drafting Kyle Pitts @ 3, then taking Kellen Mond in the 3rd round.

If Trey Lance is supposedly the best QB prospect you have ever seen in your lifetime, you don't draft a TE over that guy then turn around and take a different QB that is several tiers below Lance later on in the draft. Let alone give up all that very valuable future draft capital just to draft a freakin TE.

It makes no sense, but its Grant Cohn so he's just out there fishing for attention and clicks.

[thesack12]

Because I'm crazy, I re-watched every start of Lance's career. I'm not entirely through the Central Arkansas game from 2020 (lone game that season), but I remember that one pretty well and it wasn't pretty through the air.

I'm remembering why I didn't like Lance as a prospect. He was actually markedly better early in the season, but over the last several games of the 2019 season and the "playoffs," he was downright bad throwing the ball. He often had success running the ball when the passing wasn't there, but it was a lot of those inside draw plays that are very unlikely to work at the NFL level. His college career just doesn't instill much confidence in him as a passer.

Lance is capable of making just about every throw. If you put together a highlight film, he'd look as good as any guy in the class, and potentially any guy who has come out in recent memory (see Grant Cohn's claim he's the best prospect to come out in his lifetime, which, if I'm being honest, kind of spurred this review). He has some beautiful throws to the boundary, into tight coverage, down the field, etc. But if you watch every throw, it's frankly pretty bad.

For every tough throw Lance hits, it feels like he just plain misses two, especially later in the year. A lot of his TDs - whether due to scheme or superior talent around him relative to the competition a la Mac Jones - were to guys who were just wide open. Now, some of those were downfield dimes, but others were very similar to the balls Jones got criticized for where his receivers had to slow down to haul them in, but had five steps. The offense didn't throw much in the red zone, leaning heavily on the run (granted much of that was Lance). He wasn't in many (any?) situations where he had to run a two-minute drill, go no-huddle, or rely exclusively on his passing. It's a pretty limited sample size against lesser competition, and a QB who didn't really excel as a passer.

I've said from the moment we drafted him that I would give him a chance, and nothing has changed. He's got tons of talent, and he's supposed to be even better above the shoulders than below. We needed to take a shot on a guy with major upside after moving all the picks to get him, and a smart QB may be worth more than a super-accurate QB in Shanahan's system. But Lance has a ton of work to do on his mechanics and passing consistency to become even an average NFL thrower. He's been working on it for over two years now, so let's hope it's paying dividends.

+1 appreciate your insight and breakdown on all that Lance film.

I haven't watched any of it since before last year's draft, so I don't really remember too many of the specifics. But accuracy is most definitely going to be the crucial point of emphasis with Trey. Accurachy will most likely will be the key aspect of the position that will determine what caliber of player he eventually becomes.

If he can take a Josh Allen type trajectory with improving his accuracy, with all his measurables/physical traits/and supposedly strong mental characteristics the sky is the limit for Trey. However, if he is unable to substantially improve his overall accuracy, he won't climb too far up the QB ladder.

[thesack12]

https://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/49ers-mailbag-was-brandon-aiyuk-struggling/

Aiyuk’s performances during OTA and minicamp practices weren’t what you’d expect from a former first-round wide receiver entering his third year in the system. 

With Deebo Samuel not participating, Ray-Ray McCloud was making play after play, not Aiyuk. 

Having spent time working with Trey Lance over the offseason in Southern California, the two were expected to be on the same page from the get-go. That wasn’t the case. In fact, one of the two interceptions from Lance came after a perfectly thrown pass bounced off Aiyuk’s hands in the endzone. 

Uh oh.

Of course these types of reports are subjective, and should be taken with a grain of salt. However, considering what happened with Aiyuk early last season, this is concerning to hear. Most especially with the Deebo saga far from resolved.

[Big J]

Garoppolo = Looney
Lance = Wiseman

[Jikkle]

https://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/49ers-mailbag-was-brandon-aiyuk-struggling/

Aiyuk’s performances during OTA and minicamp practices weren’t what you’d expect from a former first-round wide receiver entering his third year in the system. 

With Deebo Samuel not participating, Ray-Ray McCloud was making play after play, not Aiyuk. 

Having spent time working with Trey Lance over the offseason in Southern California, the two were expected to be on the same page from the get-go. That wasn’t the case. In fact, one of the two interceptions from Lance came after a perfectly thrown pass bounced off Aiyuk’s hands in the endzone. 

Uh oh.

Of course these types of reports are subjective, and should be taken with a grain of salt. However, considering what happened with Aiyuk early last season, this is concerning to hear. Most especially with the Deebo saga far from resolved.

Seems Aiyuk and Lance have been hanging out lately so that's a plus but it's worth keeping an eye on in training camp.

Aiyuk also by all appearances seems to be very much a Lance guy. Makes sense because Aiyuk is more of a traditional WR and Lance theoretically will hit the areas of the field where Aiyuk will be more than Jimmy did. That's why I see Aiyuk potentially seeing the biggest gains with Lance being the QB.

Deebo is the guy you're going to hit 10 yards in the middle of the field and he'll take it 30+ but Aiyuk is going to be the guy you hit throwing over his shoulder outside the numbers for 40+ yards.

[CrimsonCrew]

Aiyuk apparently struggled a bit in front of the media, but coaches were complimentary during interviews of the work he did at camp. Tough to put any stock in what the coaches say at any time, but especially this time of year, but Shanahan hasn't been shy about criticizing Aiyuk previously.

I agree that Aiyuk is likely to see some real improvement in production with Lance under center. He was getting open downfield a lot last year, but Jimmy would almost never pull the trigger. Opening up the whole field is arguably Lance's biggest area of upgrade over Garoppolo, at least in the short term, and Aiyuk should be a big part of that. Hopefully it won't take Lance long to also exceed Garoppolo in decision-making.

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

BRANDON AIYUK
WR, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS

49ers WR Brandon Aiyuk's performance during minicamp "wasn't what you'd expect" from a veteran receiver, according to Jack Hammer of the Santa Rosa Press Democrat.

Bad practice reports are nothing new for Aiyuk, who was benched by Kyle Shanahan and played limited snaps for the first two weeks of last season. The third-year receiver struggled with drops and wasn't "on the same page" as second-year QB Trey Lance after the two spent time working over the offseason. No higher than the No. 3 option in a run-heavy offense, Aiyuk is unlikely to make a Year 3 leap.
SOURCE: The Press Democrat

Jul 16, 2022, 9:53 AM ET

[CrimsonCrew]

Random, but I had completely forgotten that Dee Ford is still on the team. At this point, there's no real incentive to cut him, I guess. Might even be a disincentive, if I'm reading his contract correctly ($7 million cap hit, $14.5 million dead cap hit if cut). That contract has been such an anchor for this team. It will be so nice when we can move past it.

That said, there's still a tiny, itsy bitsy chance that he could actually contribute. It'd be pretty incredible if our SB run was fueled by the triumphant return of Ford and Verrett. Ha!

[Jikkle]

Random, but I had completely forgotten that Dee Ford is still on the team. At this point, there's no real incentive to cut him, I guess. Might even be a disincentive, if I'm reading his contract correctly ($7 million cap hit, $14.5 million dead cap hit if cut). That contract has been such an anchor for this team. It will be so nice when we can move past it.

That said, there's still a tiny, itsy bitsy chance that he could actually contribute. It'd be pretty incredible if our SB run was fueled by the triumphant return of Ford and Verrett. Ha!

If they could get something like 10 quality pass-rushing snaps a game and be impactful on a few 3rd downs a game I'll take it.

Interesting that they haven't cut bait on him yet since they pretty much have said he's likely to be cut so maybe they have to wait until a physical or something or they possibly feel that they could get a little something out of him this season.

Either way it's still going to be Bosa and probably a rotation on the other end. Ideally Jackson can be a great for the pass rush if they just completely focus on that his rookie season.

[CrimsonCrew]

Interesting report re: Garoppolo:

Read on Twitter

I still have to believe the Browns thing is a smokescreen to try to drive down the price. If Watson is suspended for a year - there's talk that it's going to be more like 6-8 games - I don't see how that roster can go into the season with Brissett at QB. They are too good of a team to go with a guy who is 14-23 as a starting QB. And Brissett compiled that record primarily for teams that were playoff-caliber with better QB play (granted it was Luck, though Rivers also outperformed him in his final season).

The Lions are an interesting one. They have a talented roster, other than the QB. That said, as rough as Goff has looked at times, it's hard to see Jimmy as an upgrade over him. Maybe in terms of his presence on and off the field.

I guess it's good that there are teams inquiring, at least. We'll see. Hopefully we can move him and get something for him.