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2024 Off-Season

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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#541 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:42 pm

Big J wrote:
Pattersonca65 wrote:Did you see Lance's last game? Ugly.


lol, when Lance throws picks in training camp it’s “ugly”, but when Purdy does it it’s meaningless. Lance also had a 50 yard TD run. Something Purdy couldn’t do in his wildest dreams.


A couple thoughts on this.

First and foremost, Brock Purdy and Trey Lance are not even in the same discussion. Entering his third NFL season, Brock Purdy is in the conversation as a top-10 QB in this league. Entering his fourth season, Trey Lance is fighting to make his second roster as the #3 QB. Purdy has been a revelation since he stepped on the field and has answered the call repeatedly in regulation NFL games, including going toe-to-toe with Mahomes in the super bowl against the #1 defense in the league. He has started 27 NFL games and is 17-4 in the regular season and 4-2 in the playoffs. He's 4-1 in the playoffs if we don't consider a game in which he got hurt on the first drive. Trey Lance is 2-2 as a starter, and 1-2 if we don't count a game in which Jimmy G. did almost all the work after Trey went down. His only true win comes in a late-season win against the 4-13 Texans.

So yeah, INTs in the preseason mean a hell of a lot more for Lance than they do for Purdy. His football life is on the line. Purdy is returning as the unquestioned starter of a team that led the league in offensive productivity last year.

Second, it wasn't one interception. It was five interceptions and two fumbles. Against a defense that was playing guys who won't be on an NFL roster for most of the game, and who were openly calling out their protections pre-snap. And more significant than just the picks themselves is the fact that most were thrown because, four years in, Lance still can't read a defense. He appears to show some recognition pre-snap, but he can't read it at all once the players start moving. If his first read is there, he's okay (only okay because sometimes he doesn't recognize the right read, and while he will make awesome throws at times when he does see it, he's just as likely to flat out miss a wide open player). If his first read is not there, he's done unless he can do something with his legs. He has bad mechanics, bad pocket presence, bad vision, bad anticipation. Over and over again, he shows signs that he doesn't understand the meaning behind a play and thus doesn't know where to go with the ball. He's a bad NFL QB with tantalizing talent, and at this point, I don't expect that will ever change.

I was really pulling for Lance when the Niners drafted him, even though I had doubts. As said, he's supposed to be a tremendous human being, hard worker, and great teammate. But he ain't it, and it seems very unlikely that he ever will be. Meanwhile, the discussion around Purdy is whether he's only worth $50 million a year instead of $60 million.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#542 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:46 pm

Pattersonca65 wrote:Did you see Lance's last game? Ugly.


I saw the box score and then watched a breakdown of it. Rough stuff. He made a couple really nice throws, but there's just way too much bad in there to think he's got a future in this league. He can't do the easy stuff consistently. I don't see how you could ever trust him to do the hard stuff. He just doesn't see it. Lots of guys don't.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#543 » by Harry Palmer » Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:08 pm

Big J wrote:
Pattersonca65 wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Yeah, this has been making me crazy for the past several years. When they drafted Latu and Moody, I was literally screaming that they needed to draft an OT. Same thing when they drafted TDP. It's inexcusable with the OT situation as it has been the past few years that they haven't used a single draft pick on the position since 2021, and even that was a guy they originally envisioned at OG in Moore. I just don't understand the thought process in not even trying to draft and develop guys at the position.

I've been pretty relaxed about the contract stuff for most of this process, confident they would get everything done in time for week one. But now there's talk about Trent holding out into the regular season. They need to get their **** together now. Tell Aiyuk he has until tomorrow to sign the extension they offered, and after that, it's off the table and he can play on the fifth-year option. And then get Trent restructured and onto the team.


Did you see Lance's last game? Ugly.


lol, when Lance throws picks in training camp it’s “ugly”, but when Purdy does it it’s meaningless. Lance also had a 50 yard TD run. Something Purdy couldn’t do in his wildest dreams.



It’s ugly for Trey because unlike Brock he is not off to one of the hottest starts for a qb in NFL history.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#544 » by Pattersonca65 » Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:45 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:
Pattersonca65 wrote:Did you see Lance's last game? Ugly.


lol, when Lance throws picks in training camp it’s “ugly”, but when Purdy does it it’s meaningless. Lance also had a 50 yard TD run. Something Purdy couldn’t do in his wildest dreams.


A couple thoughts on this.

First and foremost, Brock Purdy and Trey Lance are not even in the same discussion. Entering his third NFL season, Brock Purdy is in the conversation as a top-10 QB in this league. Entering his fourth season, Trey Lance is fighting to make his second roster as the #3 QB. Purdy has been a revelation since he stepped on the field and has answered the call repeatedly in regulation NFL games, including going toe-to-toe with Mahomes in the super bowl against the #1 defense in the league. He has started 27 NFL games and is 17-4 in the regular season and 4-2 in the playoffs. He's 4-1 in the playoffs if we don't consider a game in which he got hurt on the first drive. Trey Lance is 2-2 as a starter, and 1-2 if we don't count a game in which Jimmy G. did almost all the work after Trey went down. His only true win comes in a late-season win against the 4-13 Texans.

So yeah, INTs in the preseason mean a hell of a lot more for Lance than they do for Purdy. His football life is on the line. Purdy is returning as the unquestioned starter of a team that led the league in offensive productivity last year.

Second, it wasn't one interception. It was five interceptions and two fumbles. Against a defense that was playing guys who won't be on an NFL roster for most of the game, and who were openly calling out their protections pre-snap. And more significant than just the picks themselves is the fact that most were thrown because, four years in, Lance still can't read a defense. He appears to show some recognition pre-snap, but he can't read it at all once the players start moving. If his first read is there, he's okay (only okay because sometimes he doesn't recognize the right read, and while he will make awesome throws at times when he does see it, he's just as likely to flat out miss a wide open player). If his first read is not there, he's done unless he can do something with his legs. He has bad mechanics, bad pocket presence, bad vision, bad anticipation. Over and over again, he shows signs that he doesn't understand the meaning behind a play and thus doesn't know where to go with the ball. He's a bad NFL QB with tantalizing talent, and at this point, I don't expect that will ever change.

I was really pulling for Lance when the Niners drafted him, even though I had doubts. As said, he's supposed to be a tremendous human being, hard worker, and great teammate. But he ain't it, and it seems very unlikely that he ever will be. Meanwhile, the discussion around Purdy is whether he's only worth $50 million a year instead of $60 million.


Chase Daniel did a film study and basically said the same thing you did. If he knows where he is going with ball pre-snap and the play is there he makes some real nice throws. But if that initial read isn't there and/or he is pressured from the pocket he makes poor decisions.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#545 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Aug 26, 2024 10:11 pm

Pattersonca65 wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:
lol, when Lance throws picks in training camp it’s “ugly”, but when Purdy does it it’s meaningless. Lance also had a 50 yard TD run. Something Purdy couldn’t do in his wildest dreams.


A couple thoughts on this.

First and foremost, Brock Purdy and Trey Lance are not even in the same discussion. Entering his third NFL season, Brock Purdy is in the conversation as a top-10 QB in this league. Entering his fourth season, Trey Lance is fighting to make his second roster as the #3 QB. Purdy has been a revelation since he stepped on the field and has answered the call repeatedly in regulation NFL games, including going toe-to-toe with Mahomes in the super bowl against the #1 defense in the league. He has started 27 NFL games and is 17-4 in the regular season and 4-2 in the playoffs. He's 4-1 in the playoffs if we don't consider a game in which he got hurt on the first drive. Trey Lance is 2-2 as a starter, and 1-2 if we don't count a game in which Jimmy G. did almost all the work after Trey went down. His only true win comes in a late-season win against the 4-13 Texans.

So yeah, INTs in the preseason mean a hell of a lot more for Lance than they do for Purdy. His football life is on the line. Purdy is returning as the unquestioned starter of a team that led the league in offensive productivity last year.

Second, it wasn't one interception. It was five interceptions and two fumbles. Against a defense that was playing guys who won't be on an NFL roster for most of the game, and who were openly calling out their protections pre-snap. And more significant than just the picks themselves is the fact that most were thrown because, four years in, Lance still can't read a defense. He appears to show some recognition pre-snap, but he can't read it at all once the players start moving. If his first read is there, he's okay (only okay because sometimes he doesn't recognize the right read, and while he will make awesome throws at times when he does see it, he's just as likely to flat out miss a wide open player). If his first read is not there, he's done unless he can do something with his legs. He has bad mechanics, bad pocket presence, bad vision, bad anticipation. Over and over again, he shows signs that he doesn't understand the meaning behind a play and thus doesn't know where to go with the ball. He's a bad NFL QB with tantalizing talent, and at this point, I don't expect that will ever change.

I was really pulling for Lance when the Niners drafted him, even though I had doubts. As said, he's supposed to be a tremendous human being, hard worker, and great teammate. But he ain't it, and it seems very unlikely that he ever will be. Meanwhile, the discussion around Purdy is whether he's only worth $50 million a year instead of $60 million.


Chase Daniel did a film study and basically said the same thing you did. If he knows where he is going with ball pre-snap and the play is there he makes some real nice throws. But if that initial read isn't there and/or he is pressured from the pocket he makes poor decisions.


Yeah, that was the film review I watched of the most recent game, but I also watched JT O'Sullivan break down his first two and it's the same story.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#546 » by Big J » Tue Aug 27, 2024 2:09 am

Harry Palmer wrote:
Big J wrote:
Pattersonca65 wrote:
Did you see Lance's last game? Ugly.


lol, when Lance throws picks in training camp it’s “ugly”, but when Purdy does it it’s meaningless. Lance also had a 50 yard TD run. Something Purdy couldn’t do in his wildest dreams.



It’s ugly for Trey because unlike Brock he is not off to one of the hottest starts for a qb in NFL history.


Trey has never been given the full reigns to run a team. We won't know what he is until that happens.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#547 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Aug 27, 2024 4:12 pm

Big J wrote:
Harry Palmer wrote:
Big J wrote:
lol, when Lance throws picks in training camp it’s “ugly”, but when Purdy does it it’s meaningless. Lance also had a 50 yard TD run. Something Purdy couldn’t do in his wildest dreams.



It’s ugly for Trey because unlike Brock he is not off to one of the hottest starts for a qb in NFL history.


Trey has never been given the full reigns to run a team. We won't know what he is until that happens.


Are you kidding? Lance was handed the starting job in 2022. He had a decent first preseason game (numbers look great because of a long TD pass, but a film review leaves some questions), didn't play in the second (not his fault), and struggled a bit in the third. Then he came out and choked in a week one game we had no business losing. And then he was injured because he doesn't know how to protect himself when he runs in a league where he can't physically dominate LBs.

What has Lance done in his NFL career to show that he deserves to be handed the reins of a team? Again, in his fourth season, he can't even read vanilla preseason defenses during live action.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#548 » by Pattersonca65 » Tue Aug 27, 2024 4:50 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:
Harry Palmer wrote:

It’s ugly for Trey because unlike Brock he is not off to one of the hottest starts for a qb in NFL history.


Trey has never been given the full reigns to run a team. We won't know what he is until that happens.


Are you kidding? Lance was handed the starting job in 2022. He had a decent first preseason game (numbers look great because of a long TD pass, but a film review leaves some questions), didn't play in the second (not his fault), and struggled a bit in the third. Then he came out and choked in a week one game we had no business losing. And then he was injured because he doesn't know how to protect himself when he runs in a league where he can't physically dominate LBs.

What has Lance done in his NFL career to show that he deserves to be handed the reins of a team? Again, in his fourth season, he can't even read vanilla preseason defenses during live action.


And the secondary was calling out the coverages, lol
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#549 » by RIPskaterdude » Tue Aug 27, 2024 5:52 pm

Big yikes

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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#550 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Aug 27, 2024 6:35 pm

RIPskaterdude wrote:Big yikes

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I just....literally for years I (and many others) have been screaming every draft season that we need some sort of plan B for Trent at LT. And we have completely ignored the position while blowing picks on lesser players at lesser positions with valuable draft picks (third round, cough!). This year we let the Chiefs jump us in the second round to take Kingsley Suamataia, who I would have been okay with (not thrilled) in the first. He's looking like he will be their starting LT. Even if Green pans out, if Suamataia also pans out, it's a bad pick IMO.

I had assumed that Trent wasn't really interested in training camp and preseason, but that we'd get something done near the start of the season. But if he's holding our feet to the fire on a big contract, we're ****. Unlike Aiyuk, where we have significant leverage given his contract status, relatively little pay to date in the league, and because we have enough other skill players to get by and stay competitive without him, the offense doesn't run if you replace Big Trent with Jaylon Moore. What a disaster. They need to figure this out.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#551 » by Pattersonca65 » Tue Aug 27, 2024 7:27 pm

Cam Latu was waived, sigh. The draft is a crap shoot and there are always misses. I get that. But too many blown picks on third round running backs and now tight ends. At least take chances on more positions of need.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#552 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Aug 27, 2024 7:42 pm

Pattersonca65 wrote:Cam Latu was waived, sigh. The draft is a crap shoot and there are always misses. I get that. But too many blown picks on third round running backs and now tight ends. At least take chances on more positions of need.


The Latu pick was always a bad one. Raw player despite five years at Alabama. Borderline athletic ability. Not a good blocker, not a good receiver. He had some ability to sit in a zone and catch the ball when the elite WRs around him drew away coverage, but that isn't very translatable. He should have been a sixth-round pick, which is the real reason I hated the choice.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#553 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:15 pm

Womack out. Not a shock, but he was on the fringe at CB. Could be a PS candidate. Two years ago he was our best STs player, and he has inside-outside versatility. Given how many CBs we may lose next offseason (everyone except Green and Luter is a FA next year, I believe), I wouldn't mind keeping him around in some capacity.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#554 » by vvoland » Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:32 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:Womack out. Not a shock, but he was on the fringe at CB. Could be a PS candidate. Two years ago he was our best STs player, and he has inside-outside versatility. Given how many CBs we may lose next offseason (everyone except Green and Luter is a FA next year, I believe), I wouldn't mind keeping him around in some capacity.


He looked much better on the outside than he did in the slot. Wonder if this is another DJ Reed situation. Probably not, but I see the flashes
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#555 » by Big J » Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:58 pm

RIPskaterdude wrote:Big yikes

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I thought everyone (coaches, gm, Trent, fans) were in agreement that he was only holding out so that he didn't have to worry about getting injured taking preseason reps. Why did this just come out of the blue?
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#556 » by Big J » Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:00 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:
Harry Palmer wrote:

It’s ugly for Trey because unlike Brock he is not off to one of the hottest starts for a qb in NFL history.


Trey has never been given the full reigns to run a team. We won't know what he is until that happens.


Are you kidding? Lance was handed the starting job in 2022. He had a decent first preseason game (numbers look great because of a long TD pass, but a film review leaves some questions), didn't play in the second (not his fault), and struggled a bit in the third. Then he came out and choked in a week one game we had no business losing. And then he was injured because he doesn't know how to protect himself when he runs in a league where he can't physically dominate LBs.

What has Lance done in his NFL career to show that he deserves to be handed the reins of a team? Again, in his fourth season, he can't even read vanilla preseason defenses during live action.


He deserved a chance because he was drafted with the 3rd overall pick. Why trade 3 1st rounders and take him 3rd overall if you are only going to give him 1 1/2 regular season games to show out?
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#557 » by RIPskaterdude » Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:01 pm

When did this happen??

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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#558 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:09 pm

Well now I'm totally at a loss. We cut Saubert, Thomas, and Saubert at TE. So we only have Kittle and Tonges. Did we make a trade? Are we grabbing someone who was cut? How can we go into the season with only two TEs? Unless we think we'll get Saubert through waivers and will bring him back.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#559 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:10 pm

Kingston out, too. Thought he might have shown enough to stick, and we're set to lose Banks next year. Hopefully he sticks on the PS. At least OL isn't a position where teams are super likely to poach our cut players. Seems like we're keeping extra LBs.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#560 » by Pattersonca65 » Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:29 pm

Big J wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Big J wrote:
Trey has never been given the full reigns to run a team. We won't know what he is until that happens.


Are you kidding? Lance was handed the starting job in 2022. He had a decent first preseason game (numbers look great because of a long TD pass, but a film review leaves some questions), didn't play in the second (not his fault), and struggled a bit in the third. Then he came out and choked in a week one game we had no business losing. And then he was injured because he doesn't know how to protect himself when he runs in a league where he can't physically dominate LBs.

What has Lance done in his NFL career to show that he deserves to be handed the reins of a team? Again, in his fourth season, he can't even read vanilla preseason defenses during live action.


He deserved a chance because he was drafted with the 3rd overall pick. Why trade 3 1st rounders and take him 3rd overall if you are only going to give him 1 1/2 regular season games to show out?

Draft status means squat when you show poorly. He hasnt shown an ability to handle the offense from day one. The coaching staff wasnt going to risk Lance choking away games hoping he might figure out how to read a defense

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