The Trey Lance thread

[CrimsonCrew]

Brock might have done everything right, but all he was asked to do was get the ball out and not turn it over. He never once had to make a big play because his playmakers & defense did all of the heavy lifting. He's short, physically weak, and has a noodle arm.... Ohhh but he's accurate. You know who else were accurate? Chad Pennington & Jimmy G.

Both of whom were far more accomplished than plenty of big talent guys.

Again, I absolutely wish Trey had gotten more of a chance. But my frustration stems primarily from the battle with Darnold, not with Purdy. Until Trey and his athletic talents really force the issue, Purdy has to be the starter.

[CrimsonCrew]

Even guys like Orlovsky (who has never been a big Trey fan) are saying the Niners have done basically nothing to develop him, and he needs to get out just to preserve his chances at a career. And that what has happened to him would destroy anyone’s confidence, going from 3rd overall to 3rd string with virtually nothing to explain why that’s happened.

Just never seen an otherwise competent organization **** something this big up over and over again until it’s basically beyond salvage barring a series of injuries and his confidence somehow remaining even partially intact.

The 49ers were in a tough position with Lance and it was always a question of how they could bring him along. But to say that they have done basically nothing to develop Lance is BS

I don't know that anyone is defending the FO's handling of this. It certainly appears, given the issues that they have with Lance today, that they didn't do a great job of scouting him in college. Apparently they expected a ton of growth potential, and to be fair, a lot of that was robbed by the injuries, but if they weren't going to let him throw the ball, I'm hazy where the development was supposed to come from.

And as much as I criticize Darnold, Lance has also been a turnover machine. He's thrown an INT in 3 of 4 starts, has been picked off in the preseason, has thrown a boatload of turnover-worthy passes that were dropped by defenders in the preseason and his prior starts. Again, I strongly prefer giving Lance a shot to going with Darnold, but he has thrown the ball to the opposing team a lot in live game situations. Purdy turning it over in practice is pretty insignificant next to that IMO.

[CrimsonCrew]

I hate this decision, but another devil's advocate point that I touched on but want to flesh out. A #2 QB has two main jobs. Most importantly, it is to come in at a moment's notice and keep your team competitive for a couple quarters or a few games. As said previously, Darnold probably is better coming off the bench than Lance is right now. Granted that's not likely to change now that Lance probably won't really be getting snaps - if he's even on the team.

The second job, which is probably overlooked, is to run the scout team and give them good looks. There have already been past reports about Lance being reluctant to pull the trigger and thus not giving the defense the looks that they feel they need to keep their edge. Darnold is probably better in that area as well.

So as much as I hate it, if the only relevant question is, "Who is the better #2 QB right now?" I think Darnold is a fair answer. Though I also think it's probably close even in those areas that tend to favor Darnold. But, of course, it's not nearly that simple, and it's galling that they are effectively giving up on Trey who is younger, still has upside that I don't know that Darnold does, and is under a fairly reasonable contract for two more years. Not to mention who has trade value. For those reasons, I couldn't disagree with this decision or the FO's handling of this more.

[Pattersonca65]

I hate this decision, but another devil's advocate point that I touched on but want to flesh out. A #2 QB has two main jobs. Most importantly, it is to come in at a moment's notice and keep your team competitive for a couple quarters or a few games. As said previously, Darnold probably is better coming off the bench than Lance is right now. Granted that's not likely to change now that Lance probably won't really be getting snaps - if he's even on the team.

The second job, which is probably overlooked, is to run the scout team and give them good looks. There have already been past reports about Lance being reluctant to pull the trigger and thus not giving the defense the looks that they feel they need to keep their edge. Darnold is probably better in that area as well.

So as much as I hate it, if the only relevant question is, "Who is the better #2 QB right now?" I think Darnold is a fair answer. Though I also think it's probably close even in those areas that tend to favor Darnold. But, of course, it's not nearly that simple, and it's galling that they are effectively giving up on Trey who is younger, still has upside that I don't know that Darnold does, and is under a fairly reasonable contract for two more years. Not to mention who has trade value. For those reasons, I couldn't disagree with this decision or the FO's handling of this more.

As of now the 49ers have made the decision that Purdy is their guy and made their choice and seems to me whether Trey is #2 or #3 he is going to suffer for it unless something changes. I am all for keeping Lance one more year. It is possible that Purdy gets injured or regresses. His sample size is small and I would like to see that play continue another season. And maybe Darnold slips. I don't think anything can completely be ruled out at this point. I just think at this point it is either Purdy or Lance. If Purdy remains the guy throughout this season Lance does need to go after the season.

[Big J]

Brock might have done everything right, but all he was asked to do was get the ball out and not turn it over. He never once had to make a big play because his playmakers & defense did all of the heavy lifting. He's short, physically weak, and has a noodle arm.... Ohhh but he's accurate. You know who else were accurate? Chad Pennington & Jimmy G.

Both of whom were far more accomplished than plenty of big talent guys.

Again, I absolutely wish Trey had gotten more of a chance. But my frustration stems primarily from the battle with Darnold, not with Purdy. Until Trey and his athletic talents really force the issue, Purdy has to be the starter.

Purdy is just so freaking limited, he's another Garner Minshew. Guys like that can be had any time of the year for a 5th round draft pick or less. Sure they win you games if you have elite talent around them, but again it's limited. In order for us to have a truly elite option we need to give Lance a looong leash and let him make mistakes, figure out how to command the offense, make the right reads, ect. After we put in that investment in him he has the top end talent to be a top 5 QB in the league easy, and we'll have a chance to actually win a ring. Running Purdy out every year is just a crutch. He's completely capped out on his potential.

[Samurai]

I hate this decision, but another devil's advocate point that I touched on but want to flesh out. A #2 QB has two main jobs. Most importantly, it is to come in at a moment's notice and keep your team competitive for a couple quarters or a few games. As said previously, Darnold probably is better coming off the bench than Lance is right now. Granted that's not likely to change now that Lance probably won't really be getting snaps - if he's even on the team.

The second job, which is probably overlooked, is to run the scout team and give them good looks. There have already been past reports about Lance being reluctant to pull the trigger and thus not giving the defense the looks that they feel they need to keep their edge. Darnold is probably better in that area as well.

So as much as I hate it, if the only relevant question is, "Who is the better #2 QB right now?" I think Darnold is a fair answer. Though I also think it's probably close even in those areas that tend to favor Darnold. But, of course, it's not nearly that simple, and it's galling that they are effectively giving up on Trey who is younger, still has upside that I don't know that Darnold does, and is under a fairly reasonable contract for two more years. Not to mention who has trade value. For those reasons, I couldn't disagree with this decision or the FO's handling of this more.

As of now the 49ers have made the decision that Purdy is their guy and made their choice and seems to me whether Trey is #2 or #3 he is going to suffer for it unless something changes. I am all for keeping Lance one more year. It is possible that Purdy gets injured or regresses. His sample size is small and I would like to see that play continue another season. And maybe Darnold slips. I don't think anything can completely be ruled out at this point. I just think at this point it is either Purdy or Lance. If Purdy remains the guy throughout this season Lance does need to go after the season.

I agree with keeping Lance for another year. But that is dependant on a) does another team make an offer for him that we can't refuse and b) what is Lance's mental state once the initial disappointment runs its course? If Lynch gets an OMG offer for him, his first obligation is to do what is best for the team. And while it is totally understandable for Lance to be initially upset at being named the #3 QB, how does he respond to this? He is still only 23 and not all 23 year olds mature at the same pace. If he handles the disappointment like a pro, then by all means we should keep him around since injuries will always be a part of football. If he sulks and becomes a negative distraction in the locker room, then again we need to do what is best for the team and not one individual.

[arich35]

Brock might have done everything right, but all he was asked to do was get the ball out and not turn it over. He never once had to make a big play because his playmakers & defense did all of the heavy lifting. He's short, physically weak, and has a noodle arm.... Ohhh but he's accurate. You know who else were accurate? Chad Pennington & Jimmy G.

Both of whom were far more accomplished than plenty of big talent guys.

Again, I absolutely wish Trey had gotten more of a chance. But my frustration stems primarily from the battle with Darnold, not with Purdy. Until Trey and his athletic talents really force the issue, Purdy has to be the starter.

Purdy is just so freaking limited, he's another Garner Minshew. Guys like that can be had any time of the year for a 5th round draft pick or less. Sure they win you games if you have elite talent around them, but again it's limited. In order for us to have a truly elite option we need to give Lance a looong leash and let him make mistakes, figure out how to command the offense, make the right reads, ect. After we put in that investment in him he has the top end talent to be a top 5 QB in the league easy, and we'll have a chance to actually win a ring. Running Purdy out every year is just a crutch. He's completely capped out on his potential.

What makes you think he is so limited and can't get better? Because he can't throw 60 yards with ease? Or because he isn't 6'2-6'4? He is way more athletic than he looks, just watch his ability to scramble and run (he isn't slow by any means). He might push the envelope a little too much and throw INTs but I would rather him take the chances than be passive all the time. Even Mahomes threw 13 & 12 INTs the last two years, I would be surprised if Purdy threw more than that in a year

[CrimsonCrew]

Brock might have done everything right, but all he was asked to do was get the ball out and not turn it over. He never once had to make a big play because his playmakers & defense did all of the heavy lifting. He's short, physically weak, and has a noodle arm.... Ohhh but he's accurate. You know who else were accurate? Chad Pennington & Jimmy G.

Both of whom were far more accomplished than plenty of big talent guys.

Again, I absolutely wish Trey had gotten more of a chance. But my frustration stems primarily from the battle with Darnold, not with Purdy. Until Trey and his athletic talents really force the issue, Purdy has to be the starter.

Purdy is just so freaking limited, he's another Garner Minshew. Guys like that can be had any time of the year for a 5th round draft pick or less. Sure they win you games if you have elite talent around them, but again it's limited. In order for us to have a truly elite option we need to give Lance a looong leash and let him make mistakes, figure out how to command the offense, make the right reads, ect. After we put in that investment in him he has the top end talent to be a top 5 QB in the league easy, and we'll have a chance to actually win a ring. Running Purdy out every year is just a crutch. He's completely capped out on his potential.

I think we agree on many things, but definitely not all.

Purdy has physical limitations - as did Brady and Brees - but his play last year was extraordinary. As a rookie, with very few snaps prior to becoming the starter, he went on an 8-0 run. His numbers were historic. The offense scored 33 points or more in six of his eight games, the exceptions being a game in Seattle in which he was clearly hurt and a playoff game against one of the best pass rushes in football. He showed great understanding of a famously complex offense (in Matt Ryan's first year in that offense, as an established eight-year vet, he went 8-8 with 21 TDs and 16 INTs before bringing home the MVP in his second year), he showed excellent processing, he showed an ability to play under pressure and to make things happen when plays broke down. He wouldn't be the first player in league history to regress, but there's every reason to expect that he could also improve on that performance.

As for Lance, as said, I really wish he had gotten enough reps to develop. I still wish it. But I don't see the top-end talent to be a top 5 QB right now. He's not a natural thrower of the ball. He can and has improved, but he's never going to be elite in that area. He's not a great runner. I believe he actually processes pretty well, but his understanding of the NFL game is not close to where it needs to be, and there's no guarantee it gets there. Despite being a film junkie, he repeatedly puts the ball in danger when he should have been aware of a defender in the area. I don't see any way that he's going to supplant Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, or Trevor Lawrence in the near future. As said above, Justin Fields clearly has superior physical tools to Lance, so if those are all-important, he won't surpass him. Maybe he gets to the Dak Prescott or Kirk Cousins level in a year or two.

Lance has promise, and someday he may reach it, but it's hard to see it happening quickly. And you can't sit on your hands and hope for someday with this team when Brock Purdy has shown an ability to win now, basically doesn't count toward the salary cap, and also projects to improve.

[Pattersonca65]

Both of whom were far more accomplished than plenty of big talent guys.

Again, I absolutely wish Trey had gotten more of a chance. But my frustration stems primarily from the battle with Darnold, not with Purdy. Until Trey and his athletic talents really force the issue, Purdy has to be the starter.

Purdy is just so freaking limited, he's another Garner Minshew. Guys like that can be had any time of the year for a 5th round draft pick or less. Sure they win you games if you have elite talent around them, but again it's limited. In order for us to have a truly elite option we need to give Lance a looong leash and let him make mistakes, figure out how to command the offense, make the right reads, ect. After we put in that investment in him he has the top end talent to be a top 5 QB in the league easy, and we'll have a chance to actually win a ring. Running Purdy out every year is just a crutch. He's completely capped out on his potential.

What makes you think he is so limited and can't get better? Because he can't throw 60 yards with ease? Or because he isn't 6'2-6'4? He is way more athletic than he looks, just watch his ability to scramble and run (he isn't slow by any means). He might push the envelope a little too much and throw INTs but I would rather him take the chances than be passive all the time. Even Mahomes threw 13 & 12 INTs the last two years, I would be surprised if Purdy threw more than that in a year

There is this assumption here by some that with experience Lance will just pick up the mental aspects of the game and be able to master the game like an elite QB when that is far from certain. It isn't easy and many physically gifted QBs never do. For all those trying to put limits on Purdy, Lance may be turn out to be nothing more than another DeShone Kizer. I am not saying that but for those who are putting limits on a player.

[Big J]

Both of whom were far more accomplished than plenty of big talent guys.

Again, I absolutely wish Trey had gotten more of a chance. But my frustration stems primarily from the battle with Darnold, not with Purdy. Until Trey and his athletic talents really force the issue, Purdy has to be the starter.

Purdy is just so freaking limited, he's another Garner Minshew. Guys like that can be had any time of the year for a 5th round draft pick or less. Sure they win you games if you have elite talent around them, but again it's limited. In order for us to have a truly elite option we need to give Lance a looong leash and let him make mistakes, figure out how to command the offense, make the right reads, ect. After we put in that investment in him he has the top end talent to be a top 5 QB in the league easy, and we'll have a chance to actually win a ring. Running Purdy out every year is just a crutch. He's completely capped out on his potential.

I think we agree on many things, but definitely not all.

Purdy has physical limitations - as did Brady and Brees - but his play last year was extraordinary. As a rookie, with very few snaps prior to becoming the starter, he went on an 8-0 run. His numbers were historic. The offense scored 33 points or more in six of his eight games, the exceptions being a game in Seattle in which he was clearly hurt and a playoff game against one of the best pass rushes in football. He showed great understanding of a famously complex offense (in Matt Ryan's first year in that offense, as an established eight-year vet, he went 8-8 with 21 TDs and 16 INTs before bringing home the MVP in his second year), he showed excellent processing, he showed an ability to play under pressure and to make things happen when plays broke down. He wouldn't be the first player in league history to regress, but there's every reason to expect that he could also improve on that performance.

As for Lance, as said, I really wish he had gotten enough reps to develop. I still wish it. But I don't see the top-end talent to be a top 5 QB right now. He's not a natural thrower of the ball. He can and has improved, but he's never going to be elite in that area. He's not a great runner. I believe he actually processes pretty well, but his understanding of the NFL game is not close to where it needs to be, and there's no guarantee it gets there. Despite being a film junkie, he repeatedly puts the ball in danger when he should have been aware of a defender in the area. I don't see any way that he's going to supplant Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, or Trevor Lawrence in the near future. As said above, Justin Fields clearly has superior physical tools to Lance, so if those are all-important, he won't surpass him. Maybe he gets to the Dak Prescott or Kirk Cousins level in a year or two.

Lance has promise, and someday he may reach it, but it's hard to see it happening quickly. And you can't sit on your hands and hope for someday with this team when Brock Purdy has shown an ability to win now, basically doesn't count toward the salary cap, and also projects to improve.

Yes, Purdy went 8-0, but look at what he was surrounded by. The most elite weapons in the entire league, and an insanely good defense. He was set up to succeed from the jump. The CMAC acquisition alone has more to do with that stretch of wins than the QB. We've seen numerous mediocre QBs go on hot/winning streaks when they have weapons around them. Purdy's just happened to be right when he was inserted.

[CrimsonCrew]

Yes, Purdy went 8-0, but look at what he was surrounded by. The most elite weapons in the entire league, and an insanely good defense. He was set up to succeed from the jump. The CMAC acquisition alone has more to do with that stretch of wins than the QB. We've seen numerous mediocre QBs go on hot/winning streaks when they have weapons around them. Purdy's just happened to be right when he was inserted.

Again, then why has Trey looked so shaky in a similar situation? McCaffrey alone doesn't answer that question.

[Big J]

Yes, Purdy went 8-0, but look at what he was surrounded by. The most elite weapons in the entire league, and an insanely good defense. He was set up to succeed from the jump. The CMAC acquisition alone has more to do with that stretch of wins than the QB. We've seen numerous mediocre QBs go on hot/winning streaks when they have weapons around them. Purdy's just happened to be right when he was inserted.

Again, then why has Trey looked so shaky in a similar situation? McCaffrey alone doesn't answer that question.

Because Trey played 5 quarters. Any QB can look bad given a 5 quarter sample size.

[CrimsonCrew]

Yes, Purdy went 8-0, but look at what he was surrounded by. The most elite weapons in the entire league, and an insanely good defense. He was set up to succeed from the jump. The CMAC acquisition alone has more to do with that stretch of wins than the QB. We've seen numerous mediocre QBs go on hot/winning streaks when they have weapons around them. Purdy's just happened to be right when he was inserted.

Again, then why has Trey looked so shaky in a similar situation? McCaffrey alone doesn't answer that question.

Because Trey played 5 quarters. Any QB can look bad given a 5 quarter sample size.

What about 2021?

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

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[arich35]

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Hey Nick, why should Trey Lance be given the starting job when the guy who ended up playing the rest of the year went 8-0 and showed himself to be more than good enough? Nobody, even the coaches and front office expected Purdy to come in and play that well. Purdy won the job, Lance didn't lose it. It is a **** situation for Lance and the front office because of the capital they spent to get Lance but I give them kudos for not letting that cloud their judgement and just blindly give Lance the job again.

[CrimsonCrew]

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Hey Nick, why should Trey Lance be given the starting job when the guy who ended up playing the rest of the year went 8-0 and showed himself to be more than good enough? Nobody, even the coaches and front office expected Purdy to come in and play that well. Purdy won the job, Lance didn't lose it. It is a **** situation for Lance and the front office because of the capital they spent to get Lance but I give them kudos for not letting that cloud their judgement and just blindly give Lance the job again.

He literally said he's not making that argument. It's hard to quibble with his critique of the Niners' process on this one. It has been deeply flawed.

I will say, it's a weird thing because the Niners are getting destroyed by the media precisely because they insulated themselves well against the prospect of Lance's failure. If Lance were the starter again this year, there wouldn't be much discussion about it unless and until he played. And if he was pretty good, team made the playoffs maybe before exiting in the first or second round, no big deal. The FO would have bought themselves at least another year. But the fact that Lance is on the bench in favor of a seventh-round pick makes his failure all the more glaring.

As said, say what you will about Kyle and John (and I have), they don't just take the easy road. Now, I sometimes vehemently disagree with the road they take, especially with high draft picks (I absolutely hated the Thomas, Pettis, Jalen Hurd, Kinlaw, Sermon, and TDP picks, disliked McGlinchey and Banks), but they have no problem admitting mistakes and moving on. But this is by far the biggest one, and it's going to take a while to get the stink off them.

[arich35]

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Hey Nick, why should Trey Lance be given the starting job when the guy who ended up playing the rest of the year went 8-0 and showed himself to be more than good enough? Nobody, even the coaches and front office expected Purdy to come in and play that well. Purdy won the job, Lance didn't lose it. It is a **** situation for Lance and the front office because of the capital they spent to get Lance but I give them kudos for not letting that cloud their judgement and just blindly give Lance the job again.

He literally said he's not making that argument. It's hard to quibble with his critique of the Niners' process on this one. It has been deeply flawed.

I will say, it's a weird thing because the Niners are getting destroyed by the media precisely because they insulated themselves well against the prospect of Lance's failure. If Lance were the starter again this year, there wouldn't be much discussion about it unless and until he played. And if he was pretty good, team made the playoffs maybe before exiting in the first or second round, no big deal. The FO would have bought themselves at least another year. But the fact that Lance is on the bench in favor of a seventh-round pick makes his failure all the more glaring.

As said, say what you will about Kyle and John (and I have), they don't just take the easy road. Now, I sometimes vehemently disagree with the road they take, especially with high draft picks (I absolutely hated the Thomas, Pettis, Jalen Hurd, Kinlaw, Sermon, and TDP picks, disliked McGlinchey and Banks), but they have no problem admitting mistakes and moving on. But this is by far the biggest one, and it's going to take a while to get the stink off them.

But that is probably the biggest part of this whole process. You can't just dismiss it and not have a problem that Purdy is starting and still say the whole process is the worst ever seen. Him not starting year 1, nothing wrong with that at all. Him given the keys from OTAs last year and given every chance to practice with the 1's and given the starting job, nothing wrong with that. Him getting hurt, nothing wrong with that. Him not getting his job back after being gone a year and a guy stepping in and running Kyle's offense to almost perfection, now there is a problem. We all knew from the end of the last year that if Brock Purdy was healthy he would be the starter. Lance still has a chance to become the starter again if there is an injury or if Purdy just regresses. Donald being named #2 to start the year doesn't really change that IMO
Was it a bad decision to trade a bunch of draft capital to draft a guy who was raw? In hindsight, yes but it is hard to predict.

[arich35]

Trey Lance officially traded to Dallas for a 4th round pick

Brock Purdy or bust. I don't agree with trading Lance but my guess is he said he wasn't going to play and wanted to be traded

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

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Trey Lance

49ers traded QB Trey Lance to the Cowboys for a 2024 fourth-round pick.

The Cowboys will take on Lance’s entire salary, paying him $5.3 million guaranteed in 2024. Dallas will also have the right to exercise Lance’s fifth-year option for 2025. Trading Lance was inevitable after he was passed by Sam Darnold as QB2. The 49ers were able to get some value back for the former No. 3 overall pick, landing an early Day 3 pick in return. Lance will back up Dak Prescott in Dallas and could be an option to replace Prescott when he becomes a free agent in 2025.
Source: ESPN

[wco81]

Trey Lance officially traded to Dallas for a 4th round pick

Brock Purdy or bust. I don't agree with trading Lance but my guess is he said he wasn't going to play and wanted to be traded

I'd want to know if the pick is conditional based on how much he plays.

Also if the 49ers are eating any of Lance's salary for this year and next or if they're getting salary cap relief with this trade.