2022 Offseason thread

[arich35]

Rapoport is reporting that we are restructuring Jimmy's contract and he will be the highest paid back up. If this doesn't prevent us from resigning Bosa and Aiyuk and other guys I don't see the issue, nice to have insurance in case Trey gets hurt

[thesack12]

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Wow.

Its probably not the best thing for Trey still having Garoppolo's presence around, but of course they know the dynamic of the team far more than I do.

Aside from that, it opens up a large amount of cap space (a huge amount if Jimmy doesn't play much) while affording the 9ers to have a good backup QB if Trey gets hurt and keeps the faint chances of a trade alive if a QB gets hurt during the season.

If a trade doesn't materialize, I believe the 9ers would be eligible for a decent compensatory pick when Jimmy leaves this winter as a free agent.

So there is some decent upside to keeping Jimmy.

[CrimsonCrew]

Pretty shocked at the extent of the pay cut. For $7 million, I'm fine with Jimmy as an insurance plan. And maybe we still move him at some point. At least we should get a comp pick when he signs a larger contract next offseason.

A bit odd all around, and in some ways, I'd prefer not to have Jimmy on the team, but it's much better than it could have been. Retain leverage with the Browns, who could take a look if Brissett struggles, or the Giants if Daniel Jones flames out.

Just wish we hadn't guaranteed Sudfeld $2 million. That was dumb. Negotiating against ourselves, as we seem to have done more than once. <Cough> Malcolm Smith. <Cough>

[CrimsonCrew]

No-trade clause, apparently, so scrap that idea. Though he could always waive it if he wanted. Kind of an odd move by Jimmy, unless he thinks he'll have a shot to beat out Trey. Though maybe he didn't like the idea of going to a bottom feeder for comparable money and little chance of rebuilding his stock.

[thesack12]

No-trade clause, apparently, so scrap that idea. Though he could always waive it if he wanted. Kind of an odd move by Jimmy, unless he thinks he'll have a shot to beat out Trey. Though maybe he didn't like the idea of going to a bottom feeder for comparable money and little chance of rebuilding his stock.

Yeah the no trade clause doesn't really carry much weight. I mean, if you are the player you would rather have it than not but its not like it eliminates trade possibilities.

I can see what the motivation is for Jimmy. He still has rehab to do, and would need to learn the offense if he went to a new team. That being the case, he would be risking playing poorly and putting bad tape out there, going into free agency this winter. Even if he never sees the field this season, he'll be in a good spot this winter going into free agency. The shoulder will be healed up, and there won't be nearly as many available QB's next offseason as there was this year.

To me, this is a sound decision for him as he's looking for his next contract. So yeah, pretty much like you referred to this season is about building/maintaining his stock. Going to a crap team while trying to play through building strength in the shoulder and learning a new offense, isn't the best of equations for building his stock.

[thesack12]

Pretty shocked at the extent of the pay cut. For $7 million, I'm fine with Jimmy as an insurance plan. And maybe we still move him at some point. At least we should get a comp pick when he signs a larger contract next offseason.

A bit odd all around, and in some ways, I'd prefer not to have Jimmy on the team, but it's much better than it could have been. Retain leverage with the Browns, who could take a look if Brissett struggles, or the Giants if Daniel Jones flames out.

Just wish we hadn't guaranteed Sudfeld $2 million. That was dumb. Negotiating against ourselves, as we seem to have done more than once. <Cough> Malcolm Smith. <Cough>

Yeah, Sudfeld is trash. There wasn't really much of a reason to give him a raise, let alone guarantee it.

Nate was carried on the practice squad all season last year, which indicates he was not desired by other teams.

With Jimmy back, I expect them to waive Sudfeld now. If they keep Nate, and waive Purdy and Brock gets picked up on waivers I'll be upset. Not that it would be an earth shattering loss or anything, but there is no upside in keeping Sudfeld. Purdy might become a decent QB2. 9ers will be in the market for one of those next season.

[CrimsonCrew]

Did a little research, and Jimmy can still net a third-round comp pick in 2024 if he gets a solid contract next year. If he had ten years of experience, it would be a fifth at most.

[CrimsonCrew]

Pretty shocked at the extent of the pay cut. For $7 million, I'm fine with Jimmy as an insurance plan. And maybe we still move him at some point. At least we should get a comp pick when he signs a larger contract next offseason.

A bit odd all around, and in some ways, I'd prefer not to have Jimmy on the team, but it's much better than it could have been. Retain leverage with the Browns, who could take a look if Brissett struggles, or the Giants if Daniel Jones flames out.

Just wish we hadn't guaranteed Sudfeld $2 million. That was dumb. Negotiating against ourselves, as we seem to have done more than once. <Cough> Malcolm Smith. <Cough>

Yeah, Sudfeld is trash. There wasn't really much of a reason to give him a raise, let alone guarantee it.

Nate was carried on the practice squad all season last year, which indicates he was not desired by other teams.

With Jimmy back, I expect them to waive Sudfeld now. If they keep Nate, and waive Purdy and Brock gets picked up on waivers I'll be upset. Not that it would be an earth shattering loss or anything, but there is no upside in keeping Sudfeld. Purdy might become a decent QB2. 9ers will be in the market for one of those next season.

They should waive both Sudfeld and Purdy now. They're in good shape, and one of those guys will definitely make the practice squad. We need the roster spots.

[thesack12]

Did a little research, and Jimmy can still net a third-round comp pick in 2024 if he gets a solid contract next year. If he had ten years of experience, it would be a fifth at most.

Unless he gets hurt again, or gets on the field next season and falls on his face, I'd think its a safe bet that Jimmy will get a nice free agent contract.

Tom Brady
Baker Mayfield
Sam Darnold
Teddy Bridgewater
Daniel Jones
Case Keenum
Mason Rudolph
Jacoby Brissett
Geno Smith
Andy Dalton

Are the other notable 2023 free agent QB's

I don't think its even worth factoring in Tom Brady at this point, so short of Mayfield or Jones killing it this season (which isn't a great bet) Jimmy will clearly be the most attractive guy on the market.

I think the market next year played a role into Jimmy's camp deciding on returning to the 9ers. He should be sitting in good shape going into free agency.

Also, as we got deeper into the offseason I think most of us would have been thrilled to get a 3rd for Jimmy, and would have been pleased to get a 5th. So getting a compensatory for him, basically accomplishes the same goal, while simultaneously insulating the QB room this season.

[thesack12]

Pretty shocked at the extent of the pay cut. For $7 million, I'm fine with Jimmy as an insurance plan. And maybe we still move him at some point. At least we should get a comp pick when he signs a larger contract next offseason.

A bit odd all around, and in some ways, I'd prefer not to have Jimmy on the team, but it's much better than it could have been. Retain leverage with the Browns, who could take a look if Brissett struggles, or the Giants if Daniel Jones flames out.

Just wish we hadn't guaranteed Sudfeld $2 million. That was dumb. Negotiating against ourselves, as we seem to have done more than once. <Cough> Malcolm Smith. <Cough>

Yeah, Sudfeld is trash. There wasn't really much of a reason to give him a raise, let alone guarantee it.

Nate was carried on the practice squad all season last year, which indicates he was not desired by other teams.

With Jimmy back, I expect them to waive Sudfeld now. If they keep Nate, and waive Purdy and Brock gets picked up on waivers I'll be upset. Not that it would be an earth shattering loss or anything, but there is no upside in keeping Sudfeld. Purdy might become a decent QB2. 9ers will be in the market for one of those next season.

They should waive both Sudfeld and Purdy now. They're in good shape, and one of those guys will definitely make the practice squad. We need the roster spots.

Yeah, when said "keep" Nate I meant adding him to the practice squad and allowing Purdy to leave.

With 2 completely competent QB's on the roster now, there is no reason to keep Sudfeld at any capacity. The practice squad is a development vehicle. There is nothing to left develop in Sudfeld, but there might be in Purdy.

[Jikkle]

No-trade clause, apparently, so scrap that idea. Though he could always waive it if he wanted. Kind of an odd move by Jimmy, unless he thinks he'll have a shot to beat out Trey. Though maybe he didn't like the idea of going to a bottom feeder for comparable money and little chance of rebuilding his stock.

I think the no-trade clause is there to prevent the 9ers from trading him to whoever they want. So it's more of I want to be traded but I get to choose if it's a place I want to get traded to.

Have very mixed feelings on this move.

On the one hand I like having a reliable quality backup QB just in case Lance gets hurt or his play just drops to a sustained unacceptable level.

On the other hand it does undermine Lance and I fear that they won't let him get the proper growing pains in if they have Jimmy as the backup. And because of Jimmy's popularity the guys in the locker room aren't going to have more patience with Lance like they would if he wasn't. Sometimes you have to burn the fleet and let guys there is no going back.

On the other other hand Lance just needs to worry about himself and play at a level to keep Jimmy on the bench. Everybody is a grown man and professional so if you don't want a guy taking your job then be the best man for the job.

Best case scenario Jimmy stays on the bench and they either trade him before the deadline or get a comp pick for him.

Honestly I think that's what this move was about is to give them more time to trade him and with a much more tradable salary or to get at least get a comp pick for him. So in the end they'll at least get something for him.

[Dodub]

If I’m Lance then I walk in and request to be traded. The team already gave the presumed back up guaranteed money which tells me that they had no intention of re-signing Jimmy. From what I’ve read, Jimmy’s contract has tons of incentives for playing time, so he has every incentive to go after the starting job.

This screams that the team doesn’t believe in Trey. Like I said, I would take it as a slap in the face and request a trade publicly.

[CrimsonCrew]

If I’m Lance then I walk in and request to be traded. The team already gave the presumed back up guaranteed money which tells me that they had no intention of re-signing Jimmy. From what I’ve read, Jimmy’s contract has tons of incentives for playing time, so he has every incentive to go after the starting job.

This screams that the team doesn’t believe in Trey. Like I said, I would take it as a slap in the face and request a trade publicly.

I don't get the babying of QBs in this league. At every other position, you want to cultivate competition. Why not at QB? Jimmy is being paid like a backup now. He's an insurance policy in the event of an injury to Lance, or, to be fair, in the event of Lance struggling. So guess what? Lance better play relatively well. They shouldn't have a super short leash, but if we start out 2-4 or something, he may get benched. If he played CB, he wouldn't see the field if he couldn't beat out the other guys at the spot. If he can't handle that pressure, he's probably not the guy.

To me, this screams that the FO views a starting-caliber QB as an asset that they won't just kick to the curb, as they've been saying all along. And at the price they're now paying him, Jimmy's a steal. I figured he wouldn't go lower than $15 million or so. But if all goes according to plan, they pay him less than half that, possibly trade him during the season, and if not, they likely net a third-round comp pick in 2024. And if something happens to Trey, the season isn't over.

[Jikkle]

If I’m Lance then I walk in and request to be traded. The team already gave the presumed back up guaranteed money which tells me that they had no intention of re-signing Jimmy. From what I’ve read, Jimmy’s contract has tons of incentives for playing time, so he has every incentive to go after the starting job.

This screams that the team doesn’t believe in Trey. Like I said, I would take it as a slap in the face and request a trade publicly.

No question they have to be concerned about Trey's inconsistent accuracy but I wouldn't go so far as to say they don't believe in him. It's possible they are feeling that Lance needs another year of mechanical work before he's where he needs to be and with a win now team they might feel like they can't let him learn on the fly and wait until next year to go full steam ahead with him.

But I believe from the 9ers perspective it's not necessarily a move motivated by Lance but they feel like it's a complete no lose situation and they are taking advantage of a guy in Jimmy that doesn't mind working with them when 99% of guys would've demanded their release and wouldn't take a pay cut.

If you put yourself in their shoes the options were to release him and get absolutely nothing for him and risk him going to the Seahawks which they were rumored to be afraid of to keeping him, shaving a ton of money off his contract, extending the window to trade him, having a backup they can win with if Lance does get hurt or gets into an extended slump they have no choice to pull him from, and if Jimmy doesn't get traded or plays they still get a comp pick for him once he becomes a free agent.

The contract to me was about the team getting a much more tradable contract and Jimmy having the power over his destination and getting paid more if he does get traded and plays. So I see the incentives as not about taking Lance's job but if he does gets traded he'll naturally start for whatever team he gets traded to and he can get paid more to play.

[Dodub]

If I’m Lance then I walk in and request to be traded. The team already gave the presumed back up guaranteed money which tells me that they had no intention of re-signing Jimmy. From what I’ve read, Jimmy’s contract has tons of incentives for playing time, so he has every incentive to go after the starting job.

This screams that the team doesn’t believe in Trey. Like I said, I would take it as a slap in the face and request a trade publicly.

I don't get the babying of QBs in this league. At every other position, you want to cultivate competition. Why not at QB? Jimmy is being paid like a backup now. He's an insurance policy in the event of an injury to Lance, or, to be fair, in the event of Lance struggling. So guess what? Lance better play relatively well. They shouldn't have a super short leash, but if we start out 2-4 or something, he may get benched. If he played CB, he wouldn't see the field if he couldn't beat out the other guys at the spot. If he can't handle that pressure, he's probably not the guy.

To me, this screams that the FO views a starting-caliber QB as an asset that they won't just kick to the curb, as they've been saying all along. And at the price they're now paying him, Jimmy's a steal. I figured he wouldn't go lower than $15 million or so. But if all goes according to plan, they pay him less than half that, possibly trade him during the season, and if not, they likely net a third-round comp pick in 2024. And if something happens to Trey, the season isn't over.

Crims, having competition at QB is fine during minicamp and the early part of training camp. This is not something that you do during the season, that is neither healthy or functional. Good teams don’t operate that way. Teams that believe in their high draft pick QB don’t hand them the reigns on a probationary basis, when they move forward they move forward.

We’ve seen Jimmy struggle enough without the danger of getting pulled. We saw Jimmy start 3-5 last year without the possibility of getting pulled. It’s strange that fans hold this inexperienced, young QB to a higher standard to an 8 year vet who is praised for his winning.

Frankly, young black QB’s are always judged much tougher than their white counterparts both by fans and the media. Just look at the scrutiny that Lance and Fields have faced in comparison to Lawrence and Wilson, the media gives two of them the benefit of the doubt while “having concerns” about the others. Also look at the rhetoric around this situation, Lance hasn’t even started a season and everyone is calling him a bust, saying “if he can’t handle Jimmy on the team then he’s not the leader he thought he was”. They never said anything about Rodgers, Favre, Brady, etc. who didn’t want another QB on the roster.

[CrimsonCrew]

If I’m Lance then I walk in and request to be traded. The team already gave the presumed back up guaranteed money which tells me that they had no intention of re-signing Jimmy. From what I’ve read, Jimmy’s contract has tons of incentives for playing time, so he has every incentive to go after the starting job.

This screams that the team doesn’t believe in Trey. Like I said, I would take it as a slap in the face and request a trade publicly.

I don't get the babying of QBs in this league. At every other position, you want to cultivate competition. Why not at QB? Jimmy is being paid like a backup now. He's an insurance policy in the event of an injury to Lance, or, to be fair, in the event of Lance struggling. So guess what? Lance better play relatively well. They shouldn't have a super short leash, but if we start out 2-4 or something, he may get benched. If he played CB, he wouldn't see the field if he couldn't beat out the other guys at the spot. If he can't handle that pressure, he's probably not the guy.

To me, this screams that the FO views a starting-caliber QB as an asset that they won't just kick to the curb, as they've been saying all along. And at the price they're now paying him, Jimmy's a steal. I figured he wouldn't go lower than $15 million or so. But if all goes according to plan, they pay him less than half that, possibly trade him during the season, and if not, they likely net a third-round comp pick in 2024. And if something happens to Trey, the season isn't over.

Crims, having competition at QB is fine during minicamp and the early part of training camp. This is not something that you do during the season, that is neither healthy or functional. Good teams don’t operate that way. Teams that believe in their high draft pick QB don’t hand them the reigns on a probationary basis, when they move forward they move forward.

We’ve seen Jimmy struggle enough without the danger of getting pulled. We saw Jimmy start 3-5 last year without the possibility of getting pulled. It’s strange that fans hold this inexperienced, young QB to a higher standard to an 8 year vet who is praised for his winning.

Frankly, young black QB’s are always judged much tougher than their white counterparts both by fans and the media. Just look at the scrutiny that Lance and Fields have faced in comparison to Lawrence and Wilson, the media gives two of them the benefit of the doubt while “having concerns” about the others. Also look at the rhetoric around this situation, Lance hasn’t even started a season and everyone is calling him a bust, saying “if he can’t handle Jimmy on the team then he’s not the leader he thought he was”. They never said anything about Rodgers, Favre, Brady, etc. who didn’t want another QB on the roster.

I don't see this as a reflection on Lance because of the financial piece. If Lance starts the whole season, Jimmy costs $7 million. That's peanuts for a guy who is probably a top-20 NFL QB. In terms of cap hit, it's not much more than Mason Rudolph or Taylor Heinecke is making ($4 million and $3.625 million, respectively). As said, I thought he might take a $10 million pay cut. Instead, he's taking almost a $20 million pay cut. In which case, why wouldn't you hold onto the guy? He is insurance against an injury, and he's still a valuable trade piece that you could possibly now move for actual value during the season.

It's also clear that this was a last resort for both sides. Maiocco has an article today about how the Niners mishandled the situation in training camp. I have a hard time with that. Until the Watson situation resolved itself, they had to wait and see if that created a trade market. Trading him was clearly option one from the beginning. Only when it became clear that the Browns wouldn't come calling did the Niners, and frankly Garoppolo, have an incentive to start discussing him staying. And that was a the right move IMO. I thought the Browns would be more aggressive about pursuing Jimmy. If they were just going to wait for us to cut him, well, F--- them. That was a bad call.

I don't view this as a competition. Jimmy hasn't played a snap in the preseason. He doesn't (or didn't until very recently) have the playbook. There's no way he's in competition to start the season, and I don't really envision him having a shot to start unless and until Lance really struggles. Niners start with the Bears, Hawks, Broncos, Rams, Panthers, and Falcons. They really should go 4-2 at worst over those games. If they go 2-4, that's a problem, and we very well may have to consider replacing him for this year. But I don't think that's likely. I think Lance has a pretty long leash, and they won't move on from him until they don't really have a choice.

[CrimsonCrew]

Oh, and Dodub, no argument at all about black QBs. You're right, they are subjected to much higher scrutiny, and criticism that is often not directed at their white counterparts. But I don't think that's what's going on here - at least with the Niners' FO. It may be in terms of the national media.

In terms of other teams not doing this, I can't think of another team that has been in this situation of having a highly drafted QB and a legit starting-caliber, playoff-winning (even with all his shortcomings in those games) former starter on the same roster. The closest I can come up with is the Chiefs, and they traded Alex Smith for a third and a starting CB. And Smith got a big raise to boot. I have no doubt that Andy Reid would have happily kept Alex if no trade market materialized and he would have only had a $4 million cap hit.

I'll poke around and see if I can find a better example.

[Dodub]

Oh, and Dodub, no argument at all about black QBs. You're right, they are subjected to much higher scrutiny, and criticism that is often not directed at their white counterparts. But I don't think that's what's going on here - at least with the Niners' FO. It may be in terms of the national media.

In terms of other teams not doing this, I can't think of another team that has been in this situation of having a highly drafted QB and a legit starting-caliber, playoff-winning (even with all his shortcomings in those games) former starter on the same roster. The closest I can come up with is the Chiefs, and they traded Alex Smith for a third and a starting CB. And Smith got a big raise to boot. I have no doubt that Andy Reid would have happily kept Alex if no trade market materialized and he would have only had a $4 million cap hit.

I'll poke around and see if I can find a better example.

I appreciate the conversation as usual Crims, you’re such a great poster. Whenever I want to be angry about something you just HAVE to come be reasonable and logical lol

I’m going to try to be around more often this season, life just gets busy.

[CrimsonCrew]

Looking into some comps. Most highly drafted QBs were replacing scrubs, so it's hard to find something on par to this situation. Smith situation is the closest by far, and he had an active trade market.

SD drafted Herbert and cut Rivers, but they were coming off a 5-11 season when Rivers was 38 and struggling. He threw 23 TDs and 20 INTs. Rivers was promptly signed to a $25 million deal by the Colts.

Wentz was drafted after Bradford went 7-7, but I wouldn't equate him to Garoppolo. His QBR that season was 39.2.

The Colts released an injured Manning when they drafted Luck, but that's not a good comp. Manning was Manning, and promptly picked up on a five-year, $96 million contract.

Decent comparison here in 2011. The Kerry Collins-led Titans went 6-10 in 2010 and drafted Jake Locker (whoops). They then brought in Matt Hasselbeck to mentor Locker. Hasselbeck started the 2011 season and played pretty well, going 9-7. The next year, Locker was the starter, but Hasselbeck was still there. Locker was injured in the first game, Hasselbeck started the next four, and then Locker took back over. But Hasselbeck was 37 that season, and not a great comp for current Garoppolo. Not sure we can draw much from this one.

I'm going to call it there as I need to pay more attention to my work. No doubt it's a pretty unique situation, but a big part of that uniqueness comes from Jimmy. As Jikkle pointed out, how many starting QBs would go along with this sort of situation? His willingness to work with the team is really driving this, granted he stands to benefit somewhat, too.

[CrimsonCrew]

Oh, and Dodub, no argument at all about black QBs. You're right, they are subjected to much higher scrutiny, and criticism that is often not directed at their white counterparts. But I don't think that's what's going on here - at least with the Niners' FO. It may be in terms of the national media.

In terms of other teams not doing this, I can't think of another team that has been in this situation of having a highly drafted QB and a legit starting-caliber, playoff-winning (even with all his shortcomings in those games) former starter on the same roster. The closest I can come up with is the Chiefs, and they traded Alex Smith for a third and a starting CB. And Smith got a big raise to boot. I have no doubt that Andy Reid would have happily kept Alex if no trade market materialized and he would have only had a $4 million cap hit.

I'll poke around and see if I can find a better example.

I appreciate the conversation as usual Crims, you’re such a great poster. Whenever I want to be angry about something you just HAVE to come be reasonable and logical lol

I’m going to try to be around more often this season, life just gets busy.

Haha. Well thanks for saying it. My wife certainly does not feel that I am reasonable and logical where the Niners are concerned. Totally hear you on life getting busy. I'm probably going to have to watch a bunch of games on tape delay this year.