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Around the NFL Thread

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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6541 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Feb 9, 2021 8:33 pm

https://football.realgm.com/wiretap/45560/Eagles-Dont-Feel-Theyve-Gotten-Fair-Offer-For-Carson-Wentz

Apparently Bears and Colts are willing to part with first-round picks. What do the Eagles think is fair? Dude has a HUGE salary cap hit, and was one of the worst QBs in the league when he was on the field this year. Goff just went as basically a throw-in on a trade where the team that traded him also gave up two first-rounders and more. I can't believe the Eagles would turn down a first. If only because they've got to get out from under that contract.

FWIW, Wentz would cost the acquiring team $25 million this year and $22 million the following year. That's not prohibitive, but it's also clear starting QB territory. And it's not clear to me that Wentz is that any more.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6542 » by Bingo_AlphaMan » Tue Feb 9, 2021 8:44 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:Man, if they had officiated last years SB like they did this year, we would have won that **** going away. Ugh. Not to mention if the Chiefs had been missing four starting OL.


Also, I noticed that Byron Leftwich did not get away from the running game in the second half. What hurt us tremendously last year was that we stop running the ball-in particular the manufactured Jet Sweep plays for Deebo Samuel in which the Chiefs had no answers for in the first half.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6543 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Feb 9, 2021 8:52 pm

I think the lack of running has been overstated. We ran when it made sense to run, and passed when it made sense to pass. Grant Cohn actually did a pretty good video breakdown of that around the time last year. I agree that we could have mixed up the runs more, though. They never really stopped the Samuel runs, so why stop using them?

Ultimately, I think a lot of it is on Jimmy. He failed to see some wide open guys, including, oddly, Kittle on plays when Kittle appeared to be the first read. He threw multiple passes that were batted (tough to say how much he's to blame for that, but ultimately it's his responsibility; especially after it's happened earlier in the game). Obviously he didn't connect with Sanders on the big pass. He choked at the end, plain and simple. There were other factors, of course, but if he'd made even one or two gimme reads/throws, we win that game.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6544 » by Pattersonca65 » Tue Feb 9, 2021 11:47 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:I think the lack of running has been overstated. We ran when it made sense to run, and passed when it made sense to pass. Grant Cohn actually did a pretty good video breakdown of that around the time last year. I agree that we could have mixed up the runs more, though. They never really stopped the Samuel runs, so why stop using them?

Ultimately, I think a lot of it is on Jimmy. He failed to see some wide open guys, including, oddly, Kittle on plays when Kittle appeared to be the first read. He threw multiple passes that were batted (tough to say how much he's to blame for that, but ultimately it's his responsibility; especially after it's happened earlier in the game). Obviously he didn't connect with Sanders on the big pass. He choked at the end, plain and simple. There were other factors, of course, but if he'd made even one or two gimme reads/throws, we win that game.


That pass to Sanders made no sense. Even had he caught a scored a touchdown there was more than enough time for Mahomes to move the ball down the field for another score. And mahomes is one of last QBs I would want to have to defend against in the last couple of minutes of the 4th qtr
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6545 » by thesack12 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:52 pm

Its easy and frankly kind of lazy to blame the QB, but the reality is the defense just flat out collapsed in last year's Super Bowl.

9ers up 20-10 with 7 minutes to play:

on 3rd and 15: Defense gives up a 44 yard bomb to a a wide open Tyreek Hill
on 3rd and 10: Moore commits a PI in the end zone, gifting KC 20 yards and the ball at the 1, which they easily convert the TD

9ers up 20-17 with 5 minutes to play:

On the 4th play of the drive defense gives up another bomb to Watkins for 38 yards, which sets up KC inside the 10 and converts the TD

9ers down 20-24 with 1.5 minutes left and have all 3 timeouts remaining:

On the 2nd play of the drive defense gives up a 38 yard TD run to Williams

The defense was great last season, but they struggled in clutch moments all season. When you are up by 10 points with 7 minutes to play in the Super Bowl, you can't give up 38+ yard plays on back to back to back possessions, you just can't do it. Then add Moore's terrible PI into that equation. Defense also allowed KC to convert a couple 4th and 1's earlier in the game, which eventually led to KC getting points. While 4th and 1's aren't the easiest things to defend, it they are yet another clutch situation where the defense didn't make a play.

Its easy to say well if the QB hits this throw or that throw, 9ers win. To that I say, if the defense doesn't absolutely Sh** the bed in the last 7 minutes, the 9ers likely take home the Lombardi.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6546 » by CrimsonCrew » Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:06 pm

thesack12 wrote:Its easy and frankly kind of lazy to blame the QB, but the reality is the defense just flat out collapsed in last year's Super Bowl.

9ers up 20-10 with 7 minutes to play:

on 3rd and 15: Defense gives up a 44 yard bomb to a a wide open Tyreek Hill
on 3rd and 10: Moore commits a PI in the end zone, gifting KC 20 yards and the ball at the 1, which they easily convert the TD

9ers up 20-17 with 5 minutes to play:

On the 4th play of the drive defense gives up another bomb to Watkins for 38 yards, which sets up KC inside the 10 and converts the TD

9ers down 20-24 with 1.5 minutes left and have all 3 timeouts remaining:

On the 2nd play of the drive defense gives up a 38 yard TD run to Williams

The defense was great last season, but they struggled in clutch moments all season. When you are up by 10 points with 7 minutes to play in the Super Bowl, you can't give up 38+ yard plays on back to back to back possessions, you just can't do it. Then add Moore's terrible PI into that equation. Defense also allowed KC to convert a couple 4th and 1's earlier in the game, which eventually led to KC getting points. While 4th and 1's aren't the easiest things to defend, it they are yet another clutch situation where the defense didn't make a play.

Its easy to say well if the QB hits this throw or that throw, 9ers win. To that I say, if the defense doesn't absolutely Sh** the bed in the last 7 minutes, the 9ers likely take home the Lombardi.


There's an element of chicken and egg to this argument. You're right, the defense collapsed when we needed them, and that something that happened too often in 2019 despite a very good defensive year overall. And I am probably cutting the defense more slack than I should be given how well they played the first 50 minutes of the game. But is it "lazy" to blame the offense/QB? I don't think so.

We always knew we would need to score more than 20 to beat the Chiefs. At least I did. And anyone who watched the Chiefs last season knew that you had to keep your foot on the gas all 60 minutes as they can score in bunches. The Chiefs' D was their weaker unit. We needed the offense to click, and when it came down to it, they collapsed as badly or worse than the D, and against a worse opponent.

There is plenty of blame to go around for this loss. Coaching on both sides of the ball late in the game. All sorts of individual performances. But if we had sustained even one drive on offense, we almost certainly win that game. Conversely, the D would have needed to get multiple stops against an elite opponent. There's a strong argument that Kyle should have run the ball more, but IMO, there's an even stronger argument that Garoppolo should have made his reads and his throws. He was putrid down the stretch of that game. Even his completions weren't great throws. And as opposed to the D, where they had to make plays repeatedly (short of a turnover, a stop on a given play on D isn't very meaningful), he really only needed to make one or two to come away with a win. If Garoppolo hit on one or two of like ten pass plays, we win and he's probably the MVP.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6547 » by wco81 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:10 pm

Defense wore down.

But they were going up against a great offense and they dominated the LOS for most of the game. It's just that Mahomes made that insane pass to Hill that changed the game.

Offense squandered too many possessions and gave Mahomes too many chances.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6548 » by CrimsonCrew » Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:43 pm

I don't mean to excuse the playcalling. It was at best mediocre down the stretch. We repeatedly ran up the middle into stacked boxes. We should have run outside more. But there were plays to be had throwing the ball, and Garoppolo didn't execute.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6549 » by CrimsonCrew » Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:56 pm

Somewhat interesting review of the end of that game by Cohn and this "Coach Anthony" guy.

;t=2774s&ab_channel=GrantCohn

Got to say, on balance, not that impressed with Coach Anthony. He makes some fair points, but loads of Monday Morning QB-ing, including talking about what he would have told specific players before specific plays. You realize that sort of "coaching" isn't allowed during games, right?

One thing that really struck me was his criticism of Garoppolo going out of bounds on the 3rd and 14 play where he scrambled and didn't get it. But there were over 9 minutes left in the quarter and the clock started running again as soon as the ball was spotted. At best, we lost maybe five seconds of game clock due to that play (granted Garoppolo still should have slid; might have even drawn a late hit). Coach Anthony clearly believes the clock just stopped dead.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6550 » by thesack12 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:54 am

CrimsonCrew wrote:
thesack12 wrote:Its easy and frankly kind of lazy to blame the QB, but the reality is the defense just flat out collapsed in last year's Super Bowl.

9ers up 20-10 with 7 minutes to play:

on 3rd and 15: Defense gives up a 44 yard bomb to a a wide open Tyreek Hill
on 3rd and 10: Moore commits a PI in the end zone, gifting KC 20 yards and the ball at the 1, which they easily convert the TD

9ers up 20-17 with 5 minutes to play:

On the 4th play of the drive defense gives up another bomb to Watkins for 38 yards, which sets up KC inside the 10 and converts the TD

9ers down 20-24 with 1.5 minutes left and have all 3 timeouts remaining:

On the 2nd play of the drive defense gives up a 38 yard TD run to Williams

The defense was great last season, but they struggled in clutch moments all season. When you are up by 10 points with 7 minutes to play in the Super Bowl, you can't give up 38+ yard plays on back to back to back possessions, you just can't do it. Then add Moore's terrible PI into that equation. Defense also allowed KC to convert a couple 4th and 1's earlier in the game, which eventually led to KC getting points. While 4th and 1's aren't the easiest things to defend, it they are yet another clutch situation where the defense didn't make a play.

Its easy to say well if the QB hits this throw or that throw, 9ers win. To that I say, if the defense doesn't absolutely Sh** the bed in the last 7 minutes, the 9ers likely take home the Lombardi.


There's an element of chicken and egg to this argument. You're right, the defense collapsed when we needed them, and that something that happened too often in 2019 despite a very good defensive year overall. And I am probably cutting the defense more slack than I should be given how well they played the first 50 minutes of the game. But is it "lazy" to blame the offense/QB? I don't think so.

We always knew we would need to score more than 20 to beat the Chiefs. At least I did. And anyone who watched the Chiefs last season knew that you had to keep your foot on the gas all 60 minutes as they can score in bunches. The Chiefs' D was their weaker unit. We needed the offense to click, and when it came down to it, they collapsed as badly or worse than the D, and against a worse opponent.

There is plenty of blame to go around for this loss. Coaching on both sides of the ball late in the game. All sorts of individual performances. But if we had sustained even one drive on offense, we almost certainly win that game. Conversely, the D would have needed to get multiple stops against an elite opponent. There's a strong argument that Kyle should have run the ball more, but IMO, there's an even stronger argument that Garoppolo should have made his reads and his throws. He was putrid down the stretch of that game. Even his completions weren't great throws. And as opposed to the D, where they had to make plays repeatedly (short of a turnover, a stop on a given play on D isn't very meaningful), he really only needed to make one or two to come away with a win. If Garoppolo hit on one or two of like ten pass plays, we win and he's probably the MVP.


When the defense gives up 38+ yard plays on 3 consecutive possessions in crunch time, I fail to see how the offense not being able to sustain a drive being on the same level of a collapse. I'm not trying to absolve the offense, as they obviously could have done better down the stretch. But giving 3 GIGANTIC plays back to back to back and tacking on a 20 yard PI penalty on top of that, is just flat playing awful football.

I don't know what the exact stats are regarding the frequency of 35+ yard plays, but I know they are pretty rare as that is a Massive chunk of yardage. I'd wager that Allowing one of those type of plays on 3 consecutive possessions in the 4th quarter a Super Bowl was unprecedented before last year, or at any point in the game really. I wouldn't be surprised if it has occurred only a handful of times in the entire history of the NFL.

I'm not really following how the defense needed to "repeatedly make plays." 9ers were up by 10 (2 possession game) with 7 minutes to play, yet they lost by 11 points. The defense gave up 21 points in that short of time span, partially because the offense couldn't string together a couple of first downs sure, but mostly because the defense couldn't stop hemorrhaging giant chunks of yardage. Not only did they not repeatedly make plays, but they didn't make a single play when it mattered most. Its not that much to ask of a defense to force 1 punt or at worst a FG on 1 of the 3 possessions. At the very least don't routinely allow massive chunks of yardage and make them methodically march down the field to get their TD's and chew up some clock. If they don't give up any 1 of the 3 explosive plays or Moore's PI its a very different game script and possible quite possibly a different outcome. That is 4 absolute game changing plays.

I just think you are really underestimating how big of a collapse the defense suffered down the stretch of that game. As for Garoppolo, he only had 11 incompletions all game, so I think you are imbellishing a bit by saying had he hit 1 or 2 of like 10 pass plays we win.

Another thing that doesn't really get talked about is the beautiful bomb Jimmy threw up to Kittle for a would be 42 yard gain before halftime that got called back for a ticky tack offensive PI on Kittle. If that play stands, 9ers are set up at the 13 yard line with 2 TO's remaining. Which would have all but guaranteed 3 points there, which would have been big down the stretch.

So while I agree that there is plenty of blame to go around, I just can't forgive the defense for their total meltdown in the closing moments of that game. Offense was bad downt the stretch, but the defense was truly terrible.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6551 » by thesack12 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:02 am

wco81 wrote:Defense wore down.

But they were going up against a great offense and they dominated the LOS for most of the game. It's just that Mahomes made that insane pass to Hill that changed the game.

Offense squandered too many possessions and gave Mahomes too many chances.


I'm personally not buying that the defense was wore down. Before the possession that started the defensive meltdown KC only had 2:47 edge in time of possession. The game finished with KC winning the time of possession battle with a 6:26 advantage.

Frisco's 1st punt didn't even occur until 8:53 left in the 4th quarter.

On top of all that 9ers had a first round bye and obviously the extra week off prior to the Super Bowl. So they a 2 week rest before the Super Bowl started. They were as rested as you could reasonably be.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6552 » by thesack12 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:19 am

A lot is made of Jimmy's performance in the final 6 minutes of the game, and rightfully so as its crunch time in the Super Bowl and he's the QB that didn't make a play down the stretch.

Prior to that however, short of the 1 brutal INT where he just threw it up to avoid a sack, he was having a very solid, dare I say good game. While 9ers were up 20-10 Jimmy was 18/22 for 195 yards good for 8.86 Yards/attempt.

Hitting receivers down the field, making accurate throws on the move, leading receivers allowing them to gain YAC, completing passes in traffic, etc.

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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6553 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:36 am

thesack12 wrote:When the defense gives up 38+ yard plays on 3 consecutive possessions in crunch time, I fail to see how the offense not being able to sustain a drive being on the same level of a collapse. I'm not trying to absolve the offense, as they obviously could have done better down the stretch. But giving 3 GIGANTIC plays back to back to back and tacking on a 20 yard PI penalty on top of that, is just flat playing awful football.

I don't know what the exact stats are regarding the frequency of 35+ yard plays, but I know they are pretty rare as that is a Massive chunk of yardage. I'd wager that Allowing one of those type of plays on 3 consecutive possessions in the 4th quarter a Super Bowl was unprecedented before last year, or at any point in the game really. I wouldn't be surprised if it has occurred only a handful of times in the entire history of the NFL.

I'm not really following how the defense needed to "repeatedly make plays." 9ers were up by 10 (2 possession game) with 7 minutes to play, yet they lost by 11 points. The defense gave up 21 points in that short of time span, partially because the offense couldn't string together a couple of first downs sure, but mostly because the defense couldn't stop hemorrhaging giant chunks of yardage. Not only did they not repeatedly make plays, but they didn't make a single play when it mattered most. Its not that much to ask of a defense to force 1 punt or at worst a FG on 1 of the 3 possessions. At the very least don't routinely allow massive chunks of yardage and make them methodically march down the field to get their TD's and chew up some clock. If they don't give up any 1 of the 3 explosive plays or Moore's PI its a very different game script and possible quite possibly a different outcome. That is 4 absolute game changing plays.

I just think you are really underestimating how big of a collapse the defense suffered down the stretch of that game. As for Garoppolo, he only had 11 incompletions all game, so I think you are imbellishing a bit by saying had he hit 1 or 2 of like 10 pass plays we win.

Another thing that doesn't really get talked about is the beautiful bomb Jimmy threw up to Kittle for a would be 42 yard gain before halftime that got called back for a ticky tack offensive PI on Kittle. If that play stands, 9ers are set up at the 13 yard line with 2 TO's remaining. Which would have all but guaranteed 3 points there, which would have been big down the stretch.

So while I agree that there is plenty of blame to go around, I just can't forgive the defense for their total meltdown in the closing moments of that game. Offense was bad downt the stretch, but the defense was truly terrible.


In terms of big plays, the Chiefs were among the best in the league at them in 2019/20. Tyreek Hill had a reception of at least 39 yards in six of twelve regular-season starts. Kelce had 29+ yard receptions in five of 16 regular season games, and four more with 20+ yard receptions. Sammy Watkins had receptions of 48, 60, and 38 in last year's playoffs. Mecole Hardman had receptions of 30 or more yards in seven of 15 games. Those are just the "long" catches for each player, to say nothing of games in which they had multiple 20+ receptions. It was one of the best explosive offenses in league history.

I will explain the defense needing to repeatedly make plays, though I wouldn't think it's that complicated. An NFL offense has four plays to gain ten yards. You can stop them on three, but if they convert on the fourth, the prior three are effectively meaningless. For instance, during the Chiefs' comeback, on the first drive the Niners held the Chiefs to a two-yard run, followed by an incomplete pass, but those good plays were effectively erased by a 16-yard completion on the next play. Following the deep ball to Hill, the D forced two incompletions. But those good plays were erased by the PI in the endzone by Moore. The next drive, forced a three-yard completion and sacked Mahomes, but those "wins" were meaningless because the Chiefs also "won" on plays.

Conversely, on offense, we needed to convert probably two or three more first downs. That shouldn't be such a tall order on three drives with four (more realistically three) plays each. Hell, even if they had just kept the clock moving, we could probably consider the play a win. After the 12-yard completion to Kittle on 2nd and 4 with 11:18 left, which was a terrible throw by Garoppolo, it's hard to identify a win. They ran for one yard, threw incomplete (bad pass to Samuel), and scrambled for three (OL lapse). Three plays, three losses. The next drive, they ran for five and threw two incompletions (Jones deflection and just a prayer to Bourne when Kittle was wide open across the middle for the first). Three plays, three losses. And we didn't need a big gain. We didn't need a TD, or even a FG. We needed ten yards, and we couldn't get it done. At that point, trailing by four, they did actually convert a few first downs, getting to the Chiefs' 49, but then Jimmy threw three consecutive incompletions and took a sack. Game effectively over.

Garoppolo played pretty well for most of the game. The deep ball to Kittle is literally the best pass he's thrown in his career. But in crunch time, he folded.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6554 » by thesack12 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:58 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
thesack12 wrote:When the defense gives up 38+ yard plays on 3 consecutive possessions in crunch time, I fail to see how the offense not being able to sustain a drive being on the same level of a collapse. I'm not trying to absolve the offense, as they obviously could have done better down the stretch. But giving 3 GIGANTIC plays back to back to back and tacking on a 20 yard PI penalty on top of that, is just flat playing awful football.

I don't know what the exact stats are regarding the frequency of 35+ yard plays, but I know they are pretty rare as that is a Massive chunk of yardage. I'd wager that Allowing one of those type of plays on 3 consecutive possessions in the 4th quarter a Super Bowl was unprecedented before last year, or at any point in the game really. I wouldn't be surprised if it has occurred only a handful of times in the entire history of the NFL.

I'm not really following how the defense needed to "repeatedly make plays." 9ers were up by 10 (2 possession game) with 7 minutes to play, yet they lost by 11 points. The defense gave up 21 points in that short of time span, partially because the offense couldn't string together a couple of first downs sure, but mostly because the defense couldn't stop hemorrhaging giant chunks of yardage. Not only did they not repeatedly make plays, but they didn't make a single play when it mattered most. Its not that much to ask of a defense to force 1 punt or at worst a FG on 1 of the 3 possessions. At the very least don't routinely allow massive chunks of yardage and make them methodically march down the field to get their TD's and chew up some clock. If they don't give up any 1 of the 3 explosive plays or Moore's PI its a very different game script and possible quite possibly a different outcome. That is 4 absolute game changing plays.

I just think you are really underestimating how big of a collapse the defense suffered down the stretch of that game. As for Garoppolo, he only had 11 incompletions all game, so I think you are imbellishing a bit by saying had he hit 1 or 2 of like 10 pass plays we win.

Another thing that doesn't really get talked about is the beautiful bomb Jimmy threw up to Kittle for a would be 42 yard gain before halftime that got called back for a ticky tack offensive PI on Kittle. If that play stands, 9ers are set up at the 13 yard line with 2 TO's remaining. Which would have all but guaranteed 3 points there, which would have been big down the stretch.

So while I agree that there is plenty of blame to go around, I just can't forgive the defense for their total meltdown in the closing moments of that game. Offense was bad downt the stretch, but the defense was truly terrible.


In terms of big plays, the Chiefs were among the best in the league at them in 2019/20. Tyreek Hill had a reception of at least 39 yards in six of twelve regular-season starts. Kelce had 29+ yard receptions in five of 16 regular season games, and four more with 20+ yard receptions. Sammy Watkins had receptions of 48, 60, and 38 in last year's playoffs. Mecole Hardman had receptions of 30 or more yards in seven of 15 games. Those are just the "long" catches for each player, to say nothing of games in which they had multiple 20+ receptions. It was one of the best explosive offenses in league history.

I will explain the defense needing to repeatedly make plays, though I wouldn't think it's that complicated. An NFL offense has four plays to gain ten yards. You can stop them on three, but if they convert on the fourth, the prior three are effectively meaningless. For instance, during the Chiefs' comeback, on the first drive the Niners held the Chiefs to a two-yard run, followed by an incomplete pass, but those good plays were effectively erased by a 16-yard completion on the next play. Following the deep ball to Hill, the D forced two incompletions. But those good plays were erased by the PI in the endzone by Moore. The next drive, forced a three-yard completion and sacked Mahomes, but those "wins" were meaningless because the Chiefs also "won" on plays.

Conversely, on offense, we needed to convert probably two or three more first downs. That shouldn't be such a tall order on three drives with four (more realistically three) plays each. Hell, even if they had just kept the clock moving, we could probably consider the play a win. After the 12-yard completion to Kittle on 2nd and 4 with 11:18 left, which was a terrible throw by Garoppolo, it's hard to identify a win. They ran for one yard, threw incomplete (bad pass to Samuel), and scrambled for three (OL lapse). Three plays, three losses. The next drive, they ran for five and threw two incompletions (Jones deflection and just a prayer to Bourne when Kittle was wide open across the middle for the first). Three plays, three losses. And we didn't need a big gain. We didn't need a TD, or even a FG. We needed ten yards, and we couldn't get it done. At that point, trailing by four, they did actually convert a few first downs, getting to the Chiefs' 49, but then Jimmy threw three consecutive incompletions and took a sack. Game effectively over.

Garoppolo played pretty well for most of the game. The deep ball to Kittle is literally the best pass he's thrown in his career. But in crunch time, he folded.


Of course the Chiefs have good playmakers, I'm not trying to discount that. However, that doesn't justify the defense giving up monster plays on 3 consecutive possessions in the closing minutes of a Super Bowl.

I completely disagree, that a defense's "good plays" or "wins" get erased or become meaningless if the opposing offense gets "win" plays. Especially in the situation we are discussing when you're up by 10 with 7 minutes to play. It goes back to the chicken or the egg conundrum you mentioned previously. While the offense's job is to play clock control in that situation, the defense has to, to a degree as well. For every 2nd, 3rd, 4th down you force that runs all the more time off the clock. Like I mentioned in my previous post, if you can't manage to force a punt or a FG attempt, at least don't give up huge chunks of yardage and make them go down the field slowly chipping away yardage. Each play the Cheifs have to run, burns more time off the clock. When you have a lead late in a game, every defensive play that doesn't result in a 1st down absolutely is not meaningless. Really, even the ones that do result in 1st downs aren't terrible, unless you are giving up more than 1/3 of the field worth yardage on them. On top of all this, at the end of the day just don't let KC make "win" plays and this entire debate becomes irrelevant. We are expecting the offense to make win plays, why not expect the defense to not give up so many "win" plays in such a short period of time?

In that situation (up by 10 with 7 minutes to go) your #1 job as a defense is not to give up big plays. Its the very reason why teams run prevent style fronts late in games when they have leads, because giving up fast strike scores on big plays is the only way you can allow a team to get back in the game. Frisco obviously wasn't running a prevent scheme there, but you get my overall point. The defense committed the cardinal syn of giving up huge plays on 3 consecutive possessions, and that is unacceptable.

Now that I think about it, its not even entirely about the big plays the defense gave up. As after the Hill 44 yard catch, KC was on the 21 and the defense failed to hold on the short field. If Moore doesn't commit that awful PI on 3rd and 10, KC has to kick a FG and we are looking at an entirely different game script. After Watkins' 38 yard catch, KC was on the 10 and again the defense failed to stiffen and hold on a short field. On Williams' 38 yard TD run, everybody on the globe knew they are going to run the ball there and the defense still gets torched. KC was on the 42 yard line and 9ers had 3 TO's there. If they can force a LONG FG there or better yet a punt, 9ers have a chance only down by 7 (or 4 with a punt, or 4 with great field position after a missed FG) with 1 minute remaining. They might even of had a TO left, as KC probably would have tried to convert on 3rd down via a pass, so if it falls incomplete, that would have obviously saved a TO.

I get it, the offense failed to move/hold the ball down the stretch and that was certainly a big factor in the outcome of the game. At the same time, the defense couldn't stop hemorrhaging yardage and coughing up points down the stretch, which IMO opinion was a bigger factor in the outcome of the game.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6555 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:28 pm

Agree to disagree.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6556 » by GS Warriors 1 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:12 pm

Another QB trade goes through:

Colts get: QB Carson Wentz

Eagles get: 2021 3rd round pick and conditional 2022 2nd round pick (becomes a 2022 1st round pick if Wentz plays 75% of the snaps or 70% and Colts make the playoffs).
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6557 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:40 pm

Sherman on McLaurin's potential:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/23/richard-sherman-says-terry-mclaurin-would-be-special-if-he-had-help-at-receiver/

I know I harp on this, but I may never recover from the 2019 draft. If I had been running the show and instructed to take WRs in the second and third rounds (I would have gone CB in the second or third, to be fair), I would have taken Bosa second, traded back to 47 in the second round and taken AJ Brown, taken McLaurin with our pick in the 3rd, and OT Chuma Edoga with the 77th pick aquired in the earlier trade. Edoga may be a bust (tough to say when you play for the Jets....), but the first three picks would have made that draft. Ugh. I like Samuel when he's healthy, but he never is, and Brown is the better player anyway.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6558 » by GS Warriors 1 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:59 pm

Russell Wilson doesn't mind staying, but he wouldn't mind leaving, either? Okay...
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6559 » by GS Warriors 1 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 7:31 pm

Cardinals have signed DL J.J. Watt to a 2 year, $31M deal, $23M guaranteed.

That's a lot of guaranteed money for someone with his injury history. Would guess that the rumored contenders interested probably wanted him on a 1 year for less money. Good for J.J. to get this deal, but not sure what this exactly does for Arizona.
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Re: Around the NFL Thread 

Post#6560 » by GS Warriors 1 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:56 pm

Bucs have re-signed OLB Shaq Barrett to a 4 year deal worth $68M, $36M guaranteed. He was expected to get more on the open market, but opted to return to the champs.

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