The Trey Lance thread

[Big J]

You have fullbacks to run one yard. Don't need a backup QB to come in and do that. Shanahan isn't going to do that

QB sneak for 1 yard is such a higher percentage play than handing it off to your fullback. Look at what the Eagles did last year with the QB sneak. It was unstoppable in short yardage situations.

That's true. And it's an area where Jimmy was excellent. Tom Brady may be the best sneaking QB in league history, and it's a hugely undervalued ability. Hopefully Purdy will watch some film on him.

Purdy is puny, he’s not going to be able to do it at the level that Trey would have.

[Pattersonca65]

QB sneak for 1 yard is such a higher percentage play than handing it off to your fullback. Look at what the Eagles did last year with the QB sneak. It was unstoppable in short yardage situations.

That's true. And it's an area where Jimmy was excellent. Tom Brady may be the best sneaking QB in league history, and it's a hugely undervalued ability. Hopefully Purdy will watch some film on him.

Purdy is puny, he’s not going to be able to do it at the level that Trey would have.

Trey's level? Like not being able to read a defense, short and medium range inaccuracy. Not seeing open receivers. That level?

[CrimsonCrew]

Purdy is known for his absurdly thick thighs. I think he'll be fine at sneaking. A low center of gravity is an asset for that.

[Big J]

That's true. And it's an area where Jimmy was excellent. Tom Brady may be the best sneaking QB in league history, and it's a hugely undervalued ability. Hopefully Purdy will watch some film on him.

Purdy is puny, he’s not going to be able to do it at the level that Trey would have.

Trey's level? Like not being able to read a defense, short and medium range inaccuracy. Not seeing open receivers. That level?

We’re talking about 1 yard qb sneaks bro. Try to keep up.

[Bald Bull]

Purdy is puny, he’s not going to be able to do it at the level that Trey would have.

Trey's level? Like not being able to read a defense, short and medium range inaccuracy. Not seeing open receivers. That level?

We’re talking about 1 yard qb sneaks bro. Try to keep up.

what % of our plays is 1 yard QB sneak?

Should we decide which QBs stay on the roster based on 1 yard sneak? or go with the QBs who can read defenses and find open receivers and throw screens?

[Pattersonca65]

Trey's level? Like not being able to read a defense, short and medium range inaccuracy. Not seeing open receivers. That level?

We’re talking about 1 yard qb sneaks bro. Try to keep up.

what % of our plays is 1 yard QB sneak?

Should we decide which QBs stay on the roster based on 1 yard sneak? or go with the QBs who can read defenses and find open receivers and throw screens?

He should be on the roster because of that huge potential that all those other NFL teams were fighting over to acquire

[Samurai]

We’re talking about 1 yard qb sneaks bro. Try to keep up.

what % of our plays is 1 yard QB sneak?

Should we decide which QBs stay on the roster based on 1 yard sneak? or go with the QBs who can read defenses and find open receivers and throw screens?

He should be on the roster because of that huge potential that all those other NFL teams were fighting over to acquire

Totally agree! I can certainly live with minor inconveniences like an inability to read defenses, inaccurate short to midrange passes and not seeing open receivers as long as he is good at a 1-yard sneak. Although from the eye test he wasn't as successful as Jimmy G on sneaks; likely because of Jimmy's superior size and athleticism....

[Big J]

Trey's level? Like not being able to read a defense, short and medium range inaccuracy. Not seeing open receivers. That level?

We’re talking about 1 yard qb sneaks bro. Try to keep up.

what % of our plays is 1 yard QB sneak?

Should we decide which QBs stay on the roster based on 1 yard sneak? or go with the QBs who can read defenses and find open receivers and throw screens?

Taysom Hill can’t do that stuff either, but he’s been a pretty valuable contributor for the Saints.

[CrimsonCrew]

Not sure if people have heard Shanahan's testy exchange with Maiocco about Jimmy's "weird situation" comments. Not a great look for Shanahan, but he's never been a guy who comes off particularly well in interviews.

The most striking thing about it, though, is what Shanahan classified as unusual (he rejected the word weird). Here's what he said, when Maiocco asked if he would agree that the situation was weird:

I think anytime you trade up to the third pick in the draft and it doesn’t work out, that’s a weird situation, but that is the situation. So that’s what happened. I don’t think it’s that weird. It’s unusual that it doesn’t work out, but I wouldn’t think that’s weird. I think that’s unusual. What do you think?

Got to say, that's a somewhat alarming answer that suggests that perhaps Kyle hasn't learned from the Lance experience. Because perhaps the one thing that hasn't been weird about the Lance saga is trading up for a high QB pick that didn't pan out. That sort of thing - or just taking a QB with a very high pick - is completely commonplace. Much more common than hitting on a guy.

Giving a QB the highest QB contract in history after seven starts, five for your franchise? Weird, though I get it.

Giving up three first-rounders and a third to get the third QB in a draft? Weird.

Making that move months before the draft? Weird.

Making that move without being extremely confident about who you were going to take? Absolutely **** bizarre.

Drafting a guy who attempted 318 college passes, basically didn't play his senior year, and looked pretty shaky when he did, to lead a playoff-ready team? Weird.

Drafting a guy who wasn't accurate in college and just kind of expecting him to become accurate? Weird.

Trotting him out there to take some goal line snaps ahead of the starting QB? A little weird. Pulling him from doing that after he'd been fairly successful doing it? A little weirder.

Naming that guy the starter heading into his second year despite apparently knowing that he was still bothered by a finger injury? Weird, though again, I get it because of Garoppolo's cap hit. Planning to back him up with Nate Sudfeld? Inexplicable.

When this chosen QB is in the game and has already demonstrated that he's a bit of a slow starter, repeatedly running him into the teeth of the defense instead of trying to help him find a groove as a passer? Weird.

Bringing in a player who is basically your drafted player's worst-case scenario to compete with him for the #2 job? Weird. Clearly favoring that worst-case scenario throughout the process despite mostly playing in a scenario that tends to minimize said player's most obvious shortcomings - i.e., playing with a live pass-rush and against a defense schemed to exploit a QB's weaknesses? Weird.

Trading away the #3 pick you gave up three firsts and a third on for a fourth-round pick after four NFL starts and when he continues to show some development, albeit not as quickly as you'd like? Really weird. Doing that on the heels of his best few drives on your team? Weirder still. Doing it before even letting him play in the third preseason game? Yeah, you get the idea.

So lots of truly inexplicable stuff going on here. And the head coach and ultimate decision-maker for the team is focused on the pick itself missing, which was always the most likely statistical outcome. Not a great sign that Kyle has received a dose of humility and really reflected on how they got to this situation. And yes, that answer is totally f-ing weird.

[wco81]

If Purdy didn’t play so well and they got CMC relatively cheap the heat would be on. After the first half dozen games the record last season didn’t look great, with the team losing to teams like Chicago and Atlanta.

If the team takes a step or two back, the heat could be right back on.

[Big J]

I think Kyle didn't want to have to answer questions about why Lance wasn't playing if the team started the season off poorly. Lance woulda been fuming on the sidelines as well. Kind of a pansy move by Kyle to trade him.

[thesack12]

We’re talking about 1 yard qb sneaks bro. Try to keep up.

what % of our plays is 1 yard QB sneak?

Should we decide which QBs stay on the roster based on 1 yard sneak? or go with the QBs who can read defenses and find open receivers and throw screens?

Taysom Hill can’t do that stuff either, but he’s been a pretty valuable contributor for the Saints.

Taysom Hill can also be used as a viable fullback/tailback and even a receiver at times. Trey Lance can't currently do either of those. Trey would need development in those areas. The ironic thing there is we are all bemoaning the lack of developmental reps at QB for Trey, yet here you are trying to propose grooming him for a Taysom Hill type of role which would only hinder his potential growth as a QB.

[thesack12]

Very late to comment on it, because I went on Vacation the day of the Lance trade, but I'm not surprised by it at all. Honestly, after it was announced Lance was the QB3 and he went home for the day, I knew he was not long for this team. To be honest, with his contract and how little good things he put on tape since he entered the league, I wouldn't have been shocked if they just released him.

Having said that, is a 4th round pick great. Umm, no. However, considering I was already prepared for him to get released I will take it. The hit rate in the middle rounds for this team is very good, so they might wind up snagging a solid player with that pick.

Expanding on that, I think the cheap cost of a 4th round pick goes to show that Trey isn't all that highly regarded around the NFL. I also think that it being a team like the Cowboys who has a very expensive already entrenched QB in place speaks volumes as well. It shows that there weren't really any teams out there that see's Trey as being a starting caliber. If it was a team like the Titans, Broncos, Commanders, Vikings, Saints, Bucs that traded for him then you could see a path for him to becoming the starter relatively soon. The interest just wasn't there.

Would I have liked to hold on to Trey especially considering the meager return, of course. However, at some point you have to consider the human element in play. At some point the team should have (and did) do right by the kid and sent him somewhere where he can get a fresh start with a clean slate. Having him locked away as QB3 and getting next to no in season reps, wasn't going to do Trey any good. Now he also gets all the pressure of being a top 3 pick after an expensive trade up taken off his shoulders. Now he can just go out and be Trey Lance. In turn not having the distraction of the Trey Lance situation around will help Brock Purdy as well.

The trade up ended up being a massive mistake and the lost draft capital hurts. There is no denying that. Still it wasn't a disaster, the team is still easily among the most talented in the league and arguably are actually better off at the QB position moving forward. What's done is done, the move worked out terrible for the 9ers but I'm not going to dwell on it. There is also a chance that the pick they got for Trey winds up being a pro bowler, which would certainly help soften the blow.

I've alluded to it a few times in the past already, but again I'm going to give massive credit to the organization for admitting fault and cutting the cord. The list of guys that chase sunk costs to the unemployment line is quite long. They realized that in their view Trey wasn't the right guy to move forward with and did what was best for the team and Trey himself. In fact I'm quite confident that if in the 9ers situation, the extreme vast majority of other teams would have traded Purdy because he would have turned a profit on his original 7th round cost, and just handed the keys right back to Trey simply because of his cost/draft pedigree.

In the end, I'm very bummed it didn't work out for Trey with the 9ers. I was excited about his upside when he was drafted. I hope he has a successful career, he seems like a great kid. I was both impressed and saddened when I read that he apologized for not being able to make it work here when he was informed he got traded. That's the kind of humble kid, you want to root for.

[Big J]

what % of our plays is 1 yard QB sneak?

Should we decide which QBs stay on the roster based on 1 yard sneak? or go with the QBs who can read defenses and find open receivers and throw screens?

Taysom Hill can’t do that stuff either, but he’s been a pretty valuable contributor for the Saints.

Taysom Hill can also be used as a viable fullback/tailback and even a receiver at times. Trey Lance can't currently do either of those. Trey would need development in those areas. The ironic thing there is we are all bemoaning the lack of developmental reps at QB for Trey, yet here you are trying to propose grooming him for a Taysom Hill type of role which would only hinder his potential growth as a QB.

Having a goal line/short yardage QB on the roster is better than having a worthless 4th round pick.

[Samurai]

Taysom Hill can’t do that stuff either, but he’s been a pretty valuable contributor for the Saints.

Taysom Hill can also be used as a viable fullback/tailback and even a receiver at times. Trey Lance can't currently do either of those. Trey would need development in those areas. The ironic thing there is we are all bemoaning the lack of developmental reps at QB for Trey, yet here you are trying to propose grooming him for a Taysom Hill type of role which would only hinder his potential growth as a QB.

Having a goal line/short yardage QB on the roster is better than having a worthless 4th round pick.

Absolutely! We have a terrible track record with our worthless 4th round and later picks. Would much, much rather carry a short-yardage QB sneak artist than those worthless dead-weight pieces like Kittle (5th round), Burford (4th round), Greenlaw (5th round), Hufanga (5th round), Jauan Jennings (7th round), Jusczyk (4th round), Lenoir (5th round), and Womack (5th round). And don't get me started on Mr. Irrelevant who was FAR worse than worthless last season. We'd be much better off if we had never drafted those worthless pieces.

[Big J]

Taysom Hill can also be used as a viable fullback/tailback and even a receiver at times. Trey Lance can't currently do either of those. Trey would need development in those areas. The ironic thing there is we are all bemoaning the lack of developmental reps at QB for Trey, yet here you are trying to propose grooming him for a Taysom Hill type of role which would only hinder his potential growth as a QB.

Having a goal line/short yardage QB on the roster is better than having a worthless 4th round pick.

Absolutely! We have a terrible track record with our worthless 4th round and later picks. Would much, much rather carry a short-yardage QB sneak artist than those worthless dead-weight pieces like Kittle (5th round), Burford (4th round), Greenlaw (5th round), Hufanga (5th round), Jauan Jennings (7th round), Jusczyk (4th round), Lenoir (5th round), and Womack (5th round). And don't get me started on Mr. Irrelevant who was FAR worse than worthless last season. We'd be much better off if we had never drafted those worthless pieces.

Except that the 4th rounder is for next years draft. It is worthless to this years team bro.

[Samurai]

Having a goal line/short yardage QB on the roster is better than having a worthless 4th round pick.

Absolutely! We have a terrible track record with our worthless 4th round and later picks. Would much, much rather carry a short-yardage QB sneak artist than those worthless dead-weight pieces like Kittle (5th round), Burford (4th round), Greenlaw (5th round), Hufanga (5th round), Jauan Jennings (7th round), Jusczyk (4th round), Lenoir (5th round), and Womack (5th round). And don't get me started on Mr. Irrelevant who was FAR worse than worthless last season. We'd be much better off if we had never drafted those worthless pieces.

Except that the 4th rounder is for next years draft. It is worthless to this years team bro.

Please point out where I stated that the pick was for this year's team bro. In fact, many of the of late round picks I did mention were helpful in seasons beyond just the year they were drafted.

[Big J]

Absolutely! We have a terrible track record with our worthless 4th round and later picks. Would much, much rather carry a short-yardage QB sneak artist than those worthless dead-weight pieces like Kittle (5th round), Burford (4th round), Greenlaw (5th round), Hufanga (5th round), Jauan Jennings (7th round), Jusczyk (4th round), Lenoir (5th round), and Womack (5th round). And don't get me started on Mr. Irrelevant who was FAR worse than worthless last season. We'd be much better off if we had never drafted those worthless pieces.

Except that the 4th rounder is for next years draft. It is worthless to this years team bro.

Please point out where I stated that the pick was for this year's team bro. In fact, many of the of late round picks I did mention were helpful in seasons beyond just the year they were drafted.

Ok, well I'm saying that it's worthless to this years team.

[thesack12]

Taysom Hill can’t do that stuff either, but he’s been a pretty valuable contributor for the Saints.

Taysom Hill can also be used as a viable fullback/tailback and even a receiver at times. Trey Lance can't currently do either of those. Trey would need development in those areas. The ironic thing there is we are all bemoaning the lack of developmental reps at QB for Trey, yet here you are trying to propose grooming him for a Taysom Hill type of role which would only hinder his potential growth as a QB.

Having a goal line/short yardage QB on the roster is better than having a worthless 4th round pick.

For starters, a 4th round pick is far from worthless.

You are neglecting to consider several things with your idea of making Trey a "short yardage QB."

You would be carrying a QB3 that costs you $6 million, let alone have that guy in such a limited specialized role. Where is the value to overall roster construction there?

The logistics of keeping Trey as QB3 on game day active list. In order to be available to be used in the role you are advocating Trey would have to be named as active during every game day. Which completely wipes away the benefit of the new "emergency QB" rule that was put in place for this year for being able to have 3 QB's available for games but only have 2 on the official active list That 3rd QB would only be eligible to play if the other 2 guys get hurt. So that being the case Trey would have to be on the official active list in order to be able be used in the short yardage role you are talking about. So you have to carry 3 active QB's (and keep in mind the situation you want to put Trey in, may not ever surface during the game) and be short a more useful player at some other position. In essence you just completely erased the benefits of the new QB rule.

There are no guarantees, that Trey would even be effective in such a role. In which case, what happens when Trey comes up short on the play, and the playclock is ticking down to the next play. Do you leave him out there to try the same thing again, or do you have to try and sub him out, get Brock back in there, get into the huddle, call a play, and get the ball snapped before you get a delay of game flag? In addition, if you use Trey in this role more than a couple times Defenses are going to catch on to it pretty dang quick.

No matter what type of other role you wold be trying to carve out for him at the end of the day he would have still been QB3. Being QB3 gets next to no in-season reps, now consider the human element here. Do you really think Trey would have been happy being locked away as QB3 and getting basically no further development as a QB while being used in a role that certainly exposes him to injury. Didn't he break his ankle on a running play?

Lastly, do you think Trey wants to chase his 2nd contract being viewed as a QB, or a short yardage ball carrier?

[thesack12]

Except that the 4th rounder is for next years draft. It is worthless to this years team bro.

Please point out where I stated that the pick was for this year's team bro. In fact, many of the of late round picks I did mention were helpful in seasons beyond just the year they were drafted.

Ok, well I'm saying that it's worthless to this years team.

Actually, no its not worthless to this year's team.

Draft picks are currency. That currency can be certainly be traded to bring in talent to help this season. Specifically pertaining to a 4th round pick, if I recall correctly they traded a 4th to get Emmanuel Sanders for the super bowl run.