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Apparently Harvin time in Minnesota is over.

Mike Max of WCCO (via CBS Sports) reported that Harvin had a "blowup [...] with Vikings head coach Leslie Frazier."

The Niners have 14 drafts picks and maybe more with the eventually trade of Alex Smith, why not trade for another former Vikings WR?

His numbers as a receiver and returner are impressive. Like many young athletes who get millions of dollars at such a young age, he needs to mature with time. Jim Harbaugh has a commanding presence that Vikings coach Frazier does not have. Harbaugh demands toughness, competiveness, and most importantly loyalty. Harvin reminds me of Vernon Davis, I know Singletary turned him around but Harbaugh has turned the whole team around when he took over.

Harvin has a history of missing games but with the Niners have a team full of vets who can right his ship mentally and physically.

radtech wrote:Apparently Harvin time in Minnesota is over.

Mike Max of WCCO (via CBS Sports) reported that Harvin had a "blowup [...] with Vikings head coach Leslie Frazier."

The Niners have 14 drafts picks and maybe more with the eventually trade of Alex Smith, why not trade for another former Vikings WR?

His numbers as a receiver and returner are impressive. Like many young athletes who get millions of dollars at such a young age, he needs to mature with time. Jim Harbaugh has a commanding presence that Vikings coach Frazier does not have. Harbaugh demands toughness, competiveness, and most importantly loyalty. Harvin reminds me of Vernon Davis, I know Singletary turned him around but Harbaugh has turned the whole team around when he took over.

Harvin has a history of missing games but with the Niners have a team full of vets who can right his ship mentally and physically.

This is my concern, but at the same time I think he got over used in Minn. For the right draft picks, I would do it. Like you said, we have bunch of them.

After living through the T.O., Singletary and Nolan eras I'm very wary of what bad seeds/sports can do to the rest of the team. If we get him at a cut price discount (a 4th) then I'd take a long look at it. Then it comes down to how he would work with the cap.

I agree. For the right price, I'd jump at the chance. He's certainly a very talented player.

However, his greatest asset is also a play we run for Crab quite often - the screen pass. We could probably alter Crab's responsibilities, but I wonder how much their skillsets overlap each other. We ideally need a bigger WR.

I guess the question then is what bigger receivers (if any) that are available and are on Harvin's level? If there isn't a realistic option as far as big WR's go, then I'd be all for going after Harvin, as at least it would be upgrading our WR group.

Looks like the Vikes are asking for a 2nd and a 4th. My first reaction was negative but the more I think about it, the more I like the deal.

Harvin's 24 and an elite playmaker who can add an element of danger to our offense. Plus, he has the ability to line up at RB - opposing defenses would sh*t their pants if they had to defend Kaep and Harvin on the read-option. We're estimated at 14 picks so losing two for a guy like him would be easily absorbed, especially if we can move Alex Smith for a 2nd. Plus his cap number is small for a guy of his abilities.

His attitude might be a problem but we have a lot of strong vets and a very strong willed HC. I think he'd fall in line pretty quickly.

Percy Harvin would be an invaluable weapon. Used in the right way he's a top 4-5 WR, but he doesn't solve anything for us in the redzone. However, at that point the sheer talent has to out-weigh everything else. If we could trade Smith for a 2nd (doubt it) I'd do the 2nd/4th deal.

Right now how many first day picks do we hold? Also, keep in mind Percy is still on a rookie deal which means a) he's cheap now and b) he's gonna get PAID when that runs out...which If I'm doing my math right is after this season. So an extension would be a pre-req to any deal.

^ Right now we have only one first day pick (ours) but four day two picks (our 2nd, Carolina's 3rd, our 3rd, and a 3rd round comp pick). I'm pretty confident that we could package two of those 3rd rounders (probably Carolina's and one of the others) into an additional 2nd rounder, which would leave us with a first, two 2nds and a third plus whatever we can get for Alex.

I don't think losing the 2nd/4th rounder Minny's asking for would be a sticking point, the contract issues definitely would though. If he wants $10M/yr then forget about it, we've got more important guys to give that money to.

Oops coulda sworn 2nd round was the first day. What was the compensation pick for? Who left? JJ Stokes

^^ Honestly, I have no idea.

They changed the draft layout last season. Was always a weekend thing, with rounds 1-3 saturday, and 4-7 Sunday. Last season it was changed to 1st round Thursday night, 2nd & 3rd rounds Friday night, and rounds 4-7 on Saturday....


Anyways, the Harvin saga has taken a couple turns since the initial report. Vikings are determined to get a 1st for him, but might settle for a 2nd and "change." Reports are they would be lucky to get a single mid rounder for him because of everything that comes with him. There is current rampant speculation that Frisco is the favorite to make a deal for Harvin, reports mostly based on 9ers surplus of draft picks, obvious need for a dynamic WR, and fact that Ginn is expected to leave opening up a special teams returner hole. Harvin also is reportedly planning to hold out until he gets an extension, and he reportedly wont be happy unless he gets Fitz/Megatron money hich is 50+ mil guaranteed and 125+ overall. Thats just insane. His health and attitude issues are huge concerns for signing him to any extension, let alone something like that. Not to mention he simply isnt nearly approaching being that good.

Unless the asking price gets drastically reduced in both an extension, and draft pick compensation he is off my radar.

I wouldn't even give him Vincent Jackson money (11m) and I totally agree that Minny would be lucky to get a mid-rounder for him because a) draft picks are waaaaay over-valued in the NFL prior to the draft and b) trades in the NFL for a malcontent of any magnitude usually result in the team losing that player getting railed. This isn't the NBA where you can use Andrew Bynum to trade for Dwight Howard, rosters are so big with so many different positions that the only position a team really HAS to have is QB, hence why they always get decent value in return.

No team really 'needs' a WR, because there will always be the Victor Cruzes, random FAs or undrafted players that are just as good as what you could have gotten in trade. I expect the Vikings to get railed for Harvin, probably ending up with a 4th in return. Which, if that is the case, can we offer Smith straight up? I'd do that in a heartbeat, maybe even if Harvin makes $8m per (he's honestly a $5-6m player now though). At that point though I doubt they'd even trade him.

Could someone link me to these articles suggesting SF as a landing spot? Saw the ESPN one but that was just speculation. Also any article citing his demands would be a nice read.

I strongly disagree that no team really needs a WR. Miami, Chicago, Cleveland, Minnesota, New York Jets, Houston, Washington, Jacksonville, Carolina, San Francisco all immediately come to mind as WR needy teams. All those teams WR issues fall somewhere in the range of needs to be addressed/upgraded all the way up to full on desperation. Some of those team's have had receiver issues for several consecutive years . Victor Cruz's are extremely rare, you can find a serviceable player here or there as an undrafted free agent, but you aren't gonna find too many impact players....

As for the Harvin links....

For 9er rumors, just google "percy harvin 49ers" and several reports/links will show up. This one is at the top of my search results....

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/san-franci ... --nfl.html

As for his alleged demands...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/89439 ... ource-says

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Peli ... spot021313

and1GS wrote:Oops coulda sworn 2nd round was the first day. What was the compensation pick for? Who left? JJ Stokes

Just found out, it's Josh Morgan

thesack12 wrote:They changed the draft layout last season. Was always a weekend thing, with rounds 1-3 saturday, and 4-7 Sunday. Last season it was changed to 1st round Thursday night, 2nd & 3rd rounds Friday night, and rounds 4-7 on Saturday....


Anyways, the Harvin saga has taken a couple turns since the initial report. Vikings are determined to get a 1st for him, but might settle for a 2nd and "change." Reports are they would be lucky to get a single mid rounder for him because of everything that comes with him. There is current rampant speculation that Frisco is the favorite to make a deal for Harvin, reports mostly based on 9ers surplus of draft picks, obvious need for a dynamic WR, and fact that Ginn is expected to leave opening up a special teams returner hole. Harvin also is reportedly planning to hold out until he gets an extension, and he reportedly wont be happy unless he gets Fitz/Megatron money hich is 50+ mil guaranteed and 125+ overall. Thats just insane. His health and attitude issues are huge concerns for signing him to any extension, let alone something like that. Not to mention he simply isnt nearly approaching being that good.

Unless the asking price gets drastically reduced in both an extension, and draft pick compensation he is off my radar.

Last rumor I saw floating around the interwebs quoted some anonymous personnel guy who said they'd be lucky to get a 3rd rounder for him. So IDK what the asking price will be. I'm sure they'll start at a 1st rounder and come down when they hear crickets. Honestly, if you're talking about a player of Harvin's caliber, the difference between a late 2nd and a mid 3rd isn't all that much. Obviously I'd like to pay less...but since we'll likely get a comp pick if he leaves to sign with someone else, it could basically end up being a 2nd for a year of Harvin and a 3rd, with a shot at keeping him longterm.

The money issue is much more concerning to me though. If he really thinks he's worth Megatron money then he should get himself institutionalized.

thesack12 wrote:I strongly disagree that no team really needs a WR. Miami, Chicago, Cleveland, Minnesota, New York Jets, Houston, Washington, Jacksonville, Carolina, San Francisco all immediately come to mind as WR needy teams. All those teams WR issues fall somewhere in the range of needs to be addressed/upgraded all the way up to full on desperation. Some of those team's have had receiver issues for several consecutive years . Victor Cruz's are extremely rare, you can find a serviceable player here or there as an undrafted free agent, but you aren't gonna find too many impact players....

My point was that no team really needs THAT WR, if that makes sense. It's a position where there are so many players who want to play it that the talent pool is very deep. Same reason why teams can let good receivers like Antonio Bryant fall out of the NFL due to conduct and why the Pats will probably be fine if/when they cut Brandon Lloyd.

In other words, you don't need to go for plan A, there will always be a plan B at WR. Take Carolina for example, they just need a complementary player to Steve Smith, that could be anyone from Percy Harvin to Emmanuel Sanders, hell they could even keep LaFell. He's pretty good himself. Deep talent pool, it's like SG in the NBA.

Could we use Percy? Hell ya, he'd be great in multiple positions. I hope we get him, I'm just saying Minny shouldn't be expecting a lot for an injury prone malcontent demanding a big contract at one of the deepest positions in the NFL.

and1GS wrote:

thesack12 wrote:I strongly disagree that no team really needs a WR. Miami, Chicago, Cleveland, Minnesota, New York Jets, Houston, Washington, Jacksonville, Carolina, San Francisco all immediately come to mind as WR needy teams. All those teams WR issues fall somewhere in the range of needs to be addressed/upgraded all the way up to full on desperation. Some of those team's have had receiver issues for several consecutive years . Victor Cruz's are extremely rare, you can find a serviceable player here or there as an undrafted free agent, but you aren't gonna find too many impact players....

My point was that no team really needs THAT WR, if that makes sense. It's a position where there are so many players who want to play it that the talent pool is very deep. Same reason why teams can let good receivers like Antonio Bryant fall out of the NFL due to conduct and why the Pats will probably be fine if/when they cut Brandon Lloyd.

In other words, you don't need to go for plan A, there will always be a plan B at WR. Take Carolina for example, they just need a complementary player to Steve Smith, that could be anyone from Percy Harvin to Emmanuel Sanders, hell they could even keep LaFell. He's pretty good himself. Deep talent pool, it's like SG in the NBA.

Could we use Percy? Hell ya, he'd be great in multiple positions. I hope we get him, I'm just saying Minny shouldn't be expecting a lot for an injury prone malcontent demanding a big contract at one of the deepest positions in the NFL.

That's a pretty apt analogy. Very few truly elite players at that position (Kobe/Wade/Harden; CJ/Fitz/Green) but tons and tons of quality players. So it's worth paying through the nose for one of the tippy top guys, but the second tier aren't a huge improvement over the third tier, who aren't a huge improvement over the fourth tier.

and1GS wrote:

thesack12 wrote:I strongly disagree that no team really needs a WR. Miami, Chicago, Cleveland, Minnesota, New York Jets, Houston, Washington, Jacksonville, Carolina, San Francisco all immediately come to mind as WR needy teams. All those teams WR issues fall somewhere in the range of needs to be addressed/upgraded all the way up to full on desperation. Some of those team's have had receiver issues for several consecutive years . Victor Cruz's are extremely rare, you can find a serviceable player here or there as an undrafted free agent, but you aren't gonna find too many impact players....

My point was that no team really needs THAT WR, if that makes sense. It's a position where there are so many players who want to play it that the talent pool is very deep. Same reason why teams can let good receivers like Antonio Bryant fall out of the NFL due to conduct and why the Pats will probably be fine if/when they cut Brandon Lloyd.

In other words, you don't need to go for plan A, there will always be a plan B at WR. Take Carolina for example, they just need a complementary player to Steve Smith, that could be anyone from Percy Harvin to Emmanuel Sanders, hell they could even keep LaFell. He's pretty good himself. Deep talent pool, it's like SG in the NBA.

Could we use Percy? Hell ya, he'd be great in multiple positions. I hope we get him, I'm just saying Minny shouldn't be expecting a lot for an injury prone malcontent demanding a big contract at one of the deepest positions in the NFL.

Yeah, I don't really get what you're saying. If you need a WR, you need a WR period. And are going to explore all avenues in order to get one. If a quality WR comes onto the market, you should do your due dilligence and explore the idea and at least make that call. If that specific player doesn not fit your scheme, then that is a different story.

The talent level and impact that player provides, what the free agent market for that position looks like in this case WR (what teams have available money to spend, what players are free agents etc, and what the upcoming draft looks like at that position again WR in this case all sets the value of available players on the open market. This particular year the WR market is pretty slim. Bowe is expected back with KC, Welker is expected back with NE, that only leaves Wallace and Jennings as impact players. The rest of the WR free agent pool is basically just bunch of guys. This year's WR draft crop is pretty watered down as well. Its not considered a strong class at all.

As for Carolina they need a guy that doubles over as a Steve Smith compliment in the short term, and eventually a Smith replacement. Steve is pretty long in the tooth (will be 34 when the season starts). Lafell isnt that guy, and guys like Emannuelle Sanders are from from that as well. The best teams address those kind of issues before they become a huge gaping hole. If Carolina waits until Smith retires to find his replacement, they are probably going to be in trouble.

There are more people who play WR, the talent pool is deeper. You don't necessarily need THAT guy to play WR for you. You need a good WR, and there are quite a few options for that. Fewer options for other positions.

^ You could make that same argument about any position on the field. Just because other team's are set at WR, doesn't make it any less of a concern for the teams in need of WR help. Its the reason the same teams are looking to upgrade the WR position every season. Frisco tried to address the WR situation last offseason, it didnt work out. So they are back in the same position this offseason.

This year's WR market in free agency and especially the draft class are considered to be very weak. So not a lot of teams will successfully resolve their WR issues.