2013 Draft Thread
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2013 Draft Thread
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2013 Draft Thread
Title is self-explanatory. Any other draftniks out there?
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
I guess I'll kick it off.
Needs are obvious, everyone's been talking about them: DL, CB, S, WR primarily. TE if Walker leaves.
1st round should be DL, IMO. Best talent available. Jesse Williams, Jonathan Hankins, Datone Jones are all good targets. Do NOT want us to pick Hunt unless he falls to us at the end of the 2nd, and not a big fan of John Jenkins either. If we're looking at later round guys, I like Brandon Williams (2nd-3rd round DT/NT from Missouri Southern) a lot, Kwame Geathers (4th-5th round, NT out of Georgia) wouldn't be a bad mid-round pickup if we don't address NT earlier. William Gholston and Joe Kruger (3rd-4th round DE/DT types) would also get a solid draw depending on how the draft plays out.
CBs - think we should wait until the mid rounds, FA market is flooded with good guys, so one of them might slip through the cracks and come to us cheap. Would look to pick up a guy like B.W. Webb (William & Mary) in the 4th or Josh Johnson (Purdue) in the 5th for talented depth/flier. If we're feeling risky, we could try to move up in the 4th and take a flier on Mathieu, but I don't think we'll add two major headcases in the draft and I'd rather go after Da'Rick Rogers (more below)
S - This is one of the other positions I think we can get an impact player early in the draft. I'd love a trade up for Vaccaro if he slips (IMO head and shoulders above the rest of the safety class) or Cyprien with 31/34. Not a fan of Elam or Reid. Swearinger is a guy I really like who might be available at #61.
WR - GREAT depth at this position. There are probably 15 WRs who will go in the first three rounds. Quinton Patton and Markus Wheaton both fit the Niners mold well. Woods might be a guy to take a chance on as well, he's got definite talent and Harbs has a relationship with him. If we're waiting until later, I'd take a chance on Swope in the 3rd. I'm not as impressed with Justin Hunter as some people (sloppy route running, "soft" label). The guy I really really want us to get is Da'Rick Rogers though. He's going to make some team very happy when they land him in the 2nd/3rd round, and I hope its us. I'd also be interested in spending a mid rounder on Ace Sanders to be a younger/faster/better version of Ginn - PR/KR specialist and gadget play guy. He's got crazy speed and elusiveness.
We also need to look at a K in the mid rounds, Hopkins from FSU or Sturgis from UF.
I also want us to take a chance on Marcus Lattimore. IMO we're the perfect landing spot for him. He can take the year off to rehab/get back in game shape and come be a beastly feature back in 2014.
I think my ideal draft would look something like this:
1st - Datone Jones
2nd (KC) - Jonathan Cyprien
2nd (ours) - Da'Rick Rogers
3rd (CAR) - Brandon Williams
3rd (ours) - Marcus Lattimore
4th (ours) - B.W. Webb
4th (comp) - Ace Sanders
5th (IND) - Dustin Hopkins
The rest, go BPA.
Needs are obvious, everyone's been talking about them: DL, CB, S, WR primarily. TE if Walker leaves.
1st round should be DL, IMO. Best talent available. Jesse Williams, Jonathan Hankins, Datone Jones are all good targets. Do NOT want us to pick Hunt unless he falls to us at the end of the 2nd, and not a big fan of John Jenkins either. If we're looking at later round guys, I like Brandon Williams (2nd-3rd round DT/NT from Missouri Southern) a lot, Kwame Geathers (4th-5th round, NT out of Georgia) wouldn't be a bad mid-round pickup if we don't address NT earlier. William Gholston and Joe Kruger (3rd-4th round DE/DT types) would also get a solid draw depending on how the draft plays out.
CBs - think we should wait until the mid rounds, FA market is flooded with good guys, so one of them might slip through the cracks and come to us cheap. Would look to pick up a guy like B.W. Webb (William & Mary) in the 4th or Josh Johnson (Purdue) in the 5th for talented depth/flier. If we're feeling risky, we could try to move up in the 4th and take a flier on Mathieu, but I don't think we'll add two major headcases in the draft and I'd rather go after Da'Rick Rogers (more below)
S - This is one of the other positions I think we can get an impact player early in the draft. I'd love a trade up for Vaccaro if he slips (IMO head and shoulders above the rest of the safety class) or Cyprien with 31/34. Not a fan of Elam or Reid. Swearinger is a guy I really like who might be available at #61.
WR - GREAT depth at this position. There are probably 15 WRs who will go in the first three rounds. Quinton Patton and Markus Wheaton both fit the Niners mold well. Woods might be a guy to take a chance on as well, he's got definite talent and Harbs has a relationship with him. If we're waiting until later, I'd take a chance on Swope in the 3rd. I'm not as impressed with Justin Hunter as some people (sloppy route running, "soft" label). The guy I really really want us to get is Da'Rick Rogers though. He's going to make some team very happy when they land him in the 2nd/3rd round, and I hope its us. I'd also be interested in spending a mid rounder on Ace Sanders to be a younger/faster/better version of Ginn - PR/KR specialist and gadget play guy. He's got crazy speed and elusiveness.
We also need to look at a K in the mid rounds, Hopkins from FSU or Sturgis from UF.
I also want us to take a chance on Marcus Lattimore. IMO we're the perfect landing spot for him. He can take the year off to rehab/get back in game shape and come be a beastly feature back in 2014.
I think my ideal draft would look something like this:
1st - Datone Jones
2nd (KC) - Jonathan Cyprien
2nd (ours) - Da'Rick Rogers
3rd (CAR) - Brandon Williams
3rd (ours) - Marcus Lattimore
4th (ours) - B.W. Webb
4th (comp) - Ace Sanders
5th (IND) - Dustin Hopkins
The rest, go BPA.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
I personally don't think DL is a big of a need as some people. Francois is likley to leave in free agency, but other than that just general depth is the biggest concern among the line. Of course it would be nice to get a solid long term replacement for Justin Smith, but IMO you can get a guy like that later on in the draft, especially with so many picks at the disposal. I just really don't want another limited to no impact 1st round pick next season, this team is too close they need help now. However if BPA at 31 happens to be DL, then go ahead and grab one there. Also, Frisco has reportedly had both Cullen Jenkins and Abraham in for visits, so the DL can be resolved elsewhere.
CB is a HUGE concern IMO. The CB free agent class is strong, but most of the quality guys are going to be out of Frisco's price range. Revis is still plan 1A for me personally. Even if Frisco grabs a quality CB from some where other than the draft, they still should be looking at taking one in the first 3 or 4 rounds. Can never have too many good cover corners in this pass happy league.
Safety is an obvious need, because its pretty much a given that Goldson is gone. Safety is widely considered the strongest overall position in the draft. So Frisco should be able to get a nice piece to put back there. I could even see them double dip at the position early on.
WR is far the biggest need and hole on this team. Crabtree is the only somewhat reliable guy Frisco currently has available. In this day and age, you really need 3 quality wideouts, preferably 4. Again, this draft is pretty watered down on WR prospects. Just because a ton of guys will proabably get taken in the first few rounds does not indicate that its a strong WR crop. WR is just a big time need for many team leaguewide, more and more teams are looking for weapons for their young quarterbacks, this year's WR free agent crop is very weak, and recently veteran receivers are getting paid monopoly money. All of these factors are bigger contributors leading to WR's likely flying off the board, more so than those player's actual prospect potential. Teams will be reaching on WR's early on. This leads to a bit of a dilemma for Frisco. Do they go ahead and draft a WR early because its such a big need and there will be a big run on them even though there are so many guys in the same class (what I call grab bag type players)? IMO I say go ahead and pull the trigger on a guy like Hunter because he has Elite measurables, but not necessarily great actual skills. I can work with and develop the skills, I can't improve a guy's measurables either he has them or he doesn't. Hunter's current abilities also allow him to make an immediate impact (deep go routes, red zone situations, fade routes, sideline routes, jump ball situations,etc) which are all areas where Frisco can use help. You can develop him and round out his route tree and overall game with time.
Backup QB is a need. Tolzien is not going to cut it. 9ers should grab a developmental guy in the 4th or 5th. It should probably be a guy with a somewhat comparable skillset to Kaep, so the offense wouldnt have to be transformed in case he had to play. Maybe a guy like Ryan Nassib or Collin Klein. I could see Harbaugh bringing Josh Johnson back to be the backup while the drafted guy is developing. Johnson was not cut last camp because Tolzien outplayed him. Johnson was cut because he would have been too expensive to the 3rd string QB. Totally different situation at QB this summer.
Kicker is an obvious concern, but I see no reason to waste a mid round pick on one. Kickers are extremely volatile these days. I say grab one in the 6th or 7th if you are so inclined. If not just stream kickers all season if need be. Teams are playing musical kickers more and more these days, and its not a postion where you need to worry about team scheme nor team chemistry, so you can get by with the strategy. Nate Kaeding is a guy who I would look at first.
In any event, BPA is always a good draft strategy to have.
CB is a HUGE concern IMO. The CB free agent class is strong, but most of the quality guys are going to be out of Frisco's price range. Revis is still plan 1A for me personally. Even if Frisco grabs a quality CB from some where other than the draft, they still should be looking at taking one in the first 3 or 4 rounds. Can never have too many good cover corners in this pass happy league.
Safety is an obvious need, because its pretty much a given that Goldson is gone. Safety is widely considered the strongest overall position in the draft. So Frisco should be able to get a nice piece to put back there. I could even see them double dip at the position early on.
WR is far the biggest need and hole on this team. Crabtree is the only somewhat reliable guy Frisco currently has available. In this day and age, you really need 3 quality wideouts, preferably 4. Again, this draft is pretty watered down on WR prospects. Just because a ton of guys will proabably get taken in the first few rounds does not indicate that its a strong WR crop. WR is just a big time need for many team leaguewide, more and more teams are looking for weapons for their young quarterbacks, this year's WR free agent crop is very weak, and recently veteran receivers are getting paid monopoly money. All of these factors are bigger contributors leading to WR's likely flying off the board, more so than those player's actual prospect potential. Teams will be reaching on WR's early on. This leads to a bit of a dilemma for Frisco. Do they go ahead and draft a WR early because its such a big need and there will be a big run on them even though there are so many guys in the same class (what I call grab bag type players)? IMO I say go ahead and pull the trigger on a guy like Hunter because he has Elite measurables, but not necessarily great actual skills. I can work with and develop the skills, I can't improve a guy's measurables either he has them or he doesn't. Hunter's current abilities also allow him to make an immediate impact (deep go routes, red zone situations, fade routes, sideline routes, jump ball situations,etc) which are all areas where Frisco can use help. You can develop him and round out his route tree and overall game with time.
Backup QB is a need. Tolzien is not going to cut it. 9ers should grab a developmental guy in the 4th or 5th. It should probably be a guy with a somewhat comparable skillset to Kaep, so the offense wouldnt have to be transformed in case he had to play. Maybe a guy like Ryan Nassib or Collin Klein. I could see Harbaugh bringing Josh Johnson back to be the backup while the drafted guy is developing. Johnson was not cut last camp because Tolzien outplayed him. Johnson was cut because he would have been too expensive to the 3rd string QB. Totally different situation at QB this summer.
Kicker is an obvious concern, but I see no reason to waste a mid round pick on one. Kickers are extremely volatile these days. I say grab one in the 6th or 7th if you are so inclined. If not just stream kickers all season if need be. Teams are playing musical kickers more and more these days, and its not a postion where you need to worry about team scheme nor team chemistry, so you can get by with the strategy. Nate Kaeding is a guy who I would look at first.
In any event, BPA is always a good draft strategy to have.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
I think we have to go BPA in the first couple rounds, which works in our favor because I expect that to be DT and S (two areas of huge need for us). The question then becomes, should we trade up for a top pick. We could conceivably swap with Oakland somehow and grab Star, whom I think would be a massive pick-up for a D-Line that looked exhausted come playoff time. Not to mention Sopoaga has been trending downhill, McDonald should be a back-up and Ricky Jean is probably one (and should be a back-up anyway).
One thing is for sure, we don't need all of those picks. Looks like we might try and sign a kicker so not sure if we'll nab one in the later rounds (unless that K deal is unguaranteed) so what do we do with these draft selections? Makes no sense to keep them all, so we should either parlay some of them into first rounders next season or trade up for this season. I think we're built for either seeing how young our team is.
One thing is for sure, we don't need all of those picks. Looks like we might try and sign a kicker so not sure if we'll nab one in the later rounds (unless that K deal is unguaranteed) so what do we do with these draft selections? Makes no sense to keep them all, so we should either parlay some of them into first rounders next season or trade up for this season. I think we're built for either seeing how young our team is.
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KevinMcreynolds wrote:hopefully JK laid some pipe on the strip as well, gotta get those reps in
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
Niners pick:
1. First round, No. 31 (No. 31 overall): Own pick
2. Second round, No. 2 (No. 34 overall): Pick from Kansas City for Alex Smith trade, which can be completed March 12
3. Second round, No. 31 (No. 61 overall): Own pick
4. Third round, No. 12 (No. 74 overall): From Carolina in trade-back during 2012 draft
5. Third round, No 31 (No. 93 overall): Own pick
6. Fourth round, No. 31 (TBA): Own pick
7. Fifth round, No. 24 (TBA): From Indianapolis in trade-back during 2012 draft
8. Fifth round, No. 31 (TBA): Own pick
9. Sixth round, No. 12 (TBA): From Miami in trade-back during 2012 draft
10. Sixth round, No. 31 (TBA): Own pick
11. Seventh round, No. 21 (TBA): From Cincinnati for Taylor Mays
12. Seventh round, No. 31, (TBA): Own pick
1. First round, No. 31 (No. 31 overall): Own pick
2. Second round, No. 2 (No. 34 overall): Pick from Kansas City for Alex Smith trade, which can be completed March 12
3. Second round, No. 31 (No. 61 overall): Own pick
4. Third round, No. 12 (No. 74 overall): From Carolina in trade-back during 2012 draft
5. Third round, No 31 (No. 93 overall): Own pick
6. Fourth round, No. 31 (TBA): Own pick
7. Fifth round, No. 24 (TBA): From Indianapolis in trade-back during 2012 draft
8. Fifth round, No. 31 (TBA): Own pick
9. Sixth round, No. 12 (TBA): From Miami in trade-back during 2012 draft
10. Sixth round, No. 31 (TBA): Own pick
11. Seventh round, No. 21 (TBA): From Cincinnati for Taylor Mays
12. Seventh round, No. 31, (TBA): Own pick
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KevinMcreynolds wrote:hopefully JK laid some pipe on the strip as well, gotta get those reps in
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
gswhoops wrote:I also want us to take a chance on Marcus Lattimore. IMO we're the perfect landing spot for him. He can take the year off to rehab/get back in game shape and come be a beastly feature back in 2014.
I didn't see this when I originally read your post...
But yeah, I'm totally with you on this. Lattimore was an elite talent before his injury, and RB would be a luxury pick for Frisco. But when you have that many picks at your disposal, you can make a couple luxury picks. However in a roundabout way, RB is a need. Gore is entering the twilight of his career, and neither Hunter nor James are workhouse backs. Both those guys are change of pace backs.
Your're right Frisco is the perfect spot for Lattimore. He definitely needs more time to re-hab, build strength in his knee, and return to football in general. With Frisco he can be placed on PUP all season, which accomplishes 2 beneficial things. 1) He wouldn't count as a roster spot. 9ers have a ton of picks and few available roster spots. Lattimore would provide nice value for their pick, even if he doesn't play a down next season. Whereas if other draft picks don't make the team, Frisco loses their rights so they wouldn't get value out of a pick like that. 2) Being on PUP removes any outside pressure on Marcus to play this season. A lot of teams' fan base and media will be pressing to see him play. And that may lead to him coming back before he is completely ready.
I'm all aboard scooping up Lattimore in the mid rounds.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
Reminds me of what Oakland did with Michael Bush, or Buffalo and McGahee. Though the latter was much riskier.
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KevinMcreynolds wrote:hopefully JK laid some pipe on the strip as well, gotta get those reps in
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
The biggest need is the defensive line and it's lack of depth this year and the impending free agency in 2014. McDonald and Justin Smith will become free agents in 2014 pending any resigning.
Currently the Niners have Smith, McDonald, and Ian Williams. Minutes ago Glenn Dorsey signed with the team. He is the only current backup so drafting several linemen is not out of the question and is needed.
Round 1: Jon Jenkins, NT
Round 2: Jaime Collins, OLB
Round 2: Brandon Williams, NT
Round 3: Robert Alford, CB
Round 3: Bacarri Rambo, S
Round 4: Brian Schwenke, C
Round 4: Kwame Geathers, DL
Last year AJ Jenkings and LaMichael James were labeled as luxury picks. This past year proved the Niners lacked depth on the DL and it hurt them severely. Once Smith got hurt, no one else provided a pass rush, thus the drafting of so many Dl.
Currently the Niners have Smith, McDonald, and Ian Williams. Minutes ago Glenn Dorsey signed with the team. He is the only current backup so drafting several linemen is not out of the question and is needed.
Round 1: Jon Jenkins, NT
Round 2: Jaime Collins, OLB
Round 2: Brandon Williams, NT
Round 3: Robert Alford, CB
Round 3: Bacarri Rambo, S
Round 4: Brian Schwenke, C
Round 4: Kwame Geathers, DL
Last year AJ Jenkings and LaMichael James were labeled as luxury picks. This past year proved the Niners lacked depth on the DL and it hurt them severely. Once Smith got hurt, no one else provided a pass rush, thus the drafting of so many Dl.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
^ Jenkins wasn't a luxury pick. Frisco did not have a solid stable of WR's from top to bottom, and that situation is even worse this year. Jenkins was a reach and so far a complete bust.
Anyways, I agree that DL depth is definitely a need. But IMO you can get general depth later on in the draft. Now if a DL guy is clearly BPA @ 31 or 34, then sure go ahead and pull the trigger.
I think S, an upgrade at CB, and WR are more of a concern than DL depth. I think Frisco should look to shore up those areas, before worrying about depth. All three of those areas have big enough holes where the plugged in guy will be playing regularly. I think this team needs to get impact out of the top of the draft. Of course BPA is always a factor.
Anyways, I agree that DL depth is definitely a need. But IMO you can get general depth later on in the draft. Now if a DL guy is clearly BPA @ 31 or 34, then sure go ahead and pull the trigger.
I think S, an upgrade at CB, and WR are more of a concern than DL depth. I think Frisco should look to shore up those areas, before worrying about depth. All three of those areas have big enough holes where the plugged in guy will be playing regularly. I think this team needs to get impact out of the top of the draft. Of course BPA is always a factor.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
gswhoops wrote:I guess I'll kick it off.
Needs are obvious, everyone's been talking about them: DL, CB, S, WR primarily. TE if Walker leaves.
1st round should be DL, IMO. Best talent available. Jesse Williams, Jonathan Hankins, Datone Jones are all good targets. Do NOT want us to pick Hunt unless he falls to us at the end of the 2nd, and not a big fan of John Jenkins either. If we're looking at later round guys, I like Brandon Williams (2nd-3rd round DT/NT from Missouri Southern) a lot, Kwame Geathers (4th-5th round, NT out of Georgia) wouldn't be a bad mid-round pickup if we don't address NT earlier. William Gholston and Joe Kruger (3rd-4th round DE/DT types) would also get a solid draw depending on how the draft plays out.
CBs - think we should wait until the mid rounds, FA market is flooded with good guys, so one of them might slip through the cracks and come to us cheap. Would look to pick up a guy like B.W. Webb (William & Mary) in the 4th or Josh Johnson (Purdue) in the 5th for talented depth/flier. If we're feeling risky, we could try to move up in the 4th and take a flier on Mathieu, but I don't think we'll add two major headcases in the draft and I'd rather go after Da'Rick Rogers (more below)
S - This is one of the other positions I think we can get an impact player early in the draft. I'd love a trade up for Vaccaro if he slips (IMO head and shoulders above the rest of the safety class) or Cyprien with 31/34. Not a fan of Elam or Reid. Swearinger is a guy I really like who might be available at #61.
WR - GREAT depth at this position. There are probably 15 WRs who will go in the first three rounds. Quinton Patton and Markus Wheaton both fit the Niners mold well. Woods might be a guy to take a chance on as well, he's got definite talent and Harbs has a relationship with him. If we're waiting until later, I'd take a chance on Swope in the 3rd. I'm not as impressed with Justin Hunter as some people (sloppy route running, "soft" label). The guy I really really want us to get is Da'Rick Rogers though. He's going to make some team very happy when they land him in the 2nd/3rd round, and I hope its us. I'd also be interested in spending a mid rounder on Ace Sanders to be a younger/faster/better version of Ginn - PR/KR specialist and gadget play guy. He's got crazy speed and elusiveness.
We also need to look at a K in the mid rounds, Hopkins from FSU or Sturgis from UF.
I also want us to take a chance on Marcus Lattimore. IMO we're the perfect landing spot for him. He can take the year off to rehab/get back in game shape and come be a beastly feature back in 2014.
I think my ideal draft would look something like this:
1st - Datone Jones
2nd (KC) - Jonathan Cyprien
2nd (ours) - Da'Rick Rogers
3rd (CAR) - Brandon Williams
3rd (ours) - Marcus Lattimore
4th (ours) - B.W. Webb
4th (comp) - Ace Sanders
5th (IND) - Dustin Hopkins
The rest, go BPA.
Good post.
A good team builds with a good QB and good line play. Pressure the other QB while stopping the run, and protect your QB while opening run holes and you've got a great shot of winning year after year. Niners have a good QB. They have a good OL. The DL has talent, but also needs help. (I'm counting OLB as DL, as the OLBs provide a lot of the pass rush in the 3-4.)
Draft DL early. Draft DB early, as there is clearly a need and it's hard to find good ones later in the draft. But as a believer in BPA, I won't stress if the Niners pick other positions early. I'd rather get a great player than reach for an ok player that fills a need. If they must target a player or position, I hope they trade up or down as appropriate so the targeted player or position is the BPA and they always get proper value for their picks.
Draft at least one OL to develop somewhere in the draft - won't be long before Iupati and Davis will warrant big money and Niners may not be able to keep both.
Beyond that, BPA all day. A WR to develop would be great if it works. Lattimore would be great if it works. But I'm not going to worry about particulars. If a front office knows how to spot talent and always goes BPA, the team should always be stocked, with new guys ready to step in whenever the old guys retire or leave for more $$$$. With Kaepernick young, I want this team to think long term.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
I think the big debate this offseason is over the effectiveness of the secondary. Personally, I think the problem stems from our pass rush running out of gas towards the end of the season, combined with Justin Smith getting hurt. It doesn't matter how good your CBs are, if you can't get pressure on the QB then someone will eventually get open.
That's why I think getting a DL upgrade should be priority #1. Dorsey is a nice guy to fill the RJF role and spot people all over the line, and Williams can't be any worse than Sopoaga was (seriously, I can't believe Philly offered him that deal...). But neither of them project as true impact players. I really like Datone Jones for that role - he can rush the passer very effectively from both DE in our base set and as an interior rusher in nickel/dime sets. Give him a chance to learn the trade from Smith/Tomsula/Fangio and he could be something really special. We should also look into getting better depth for our OLBs, maybe by signing someone like Abraham.
CB is less of a worry to me. Brown and Cully both rated out near the top of the league at CB (and this is only Culliver's third year playing CB IIRC). We could grab another guy for depth in FA since the market is so depressed and there are some good guys later in the draft as well.
TE has also become a big need. Lots of quality guys there. Jordan Reed (Florida) and Chris Gragg (Arkansas) fill the Delanie mold, while guys like Ertz, McDonald (Rice) are your more traditional TEs.
That's why I think getting a DL upgrade should be priority #1. Dorsey is a nice guy to fill the RJF role and spot people all over the line, and Williams can't be any worse than Sopoaga was (seriously, I can't believe Philly offered him that deal...). But neither of them project as true impact players. I really like Datone Jones for that role - he can rush the passer very effectively from both DE in our base set and as an interior rusher in nickel/dime sets. Give him a chance to learn the trade from Smith/Tomsula/Fangio and he could be something really special. We should also look into getting better depth for our OLBs, maybe by signing someone like Abraham.
CB is less of a worry to me. Brown and Cully both rated out near the top of the league at CB (and this is only Culliver's third year playing CB IIRC). We could grab another guy for depth in FA since the market is so depressed and there are some good guys later in the draft as well.
TE has also become a big need. Lots of quality guys there. Jordan Reed (Florida) and Chris Gragg (Arkansas) fill the Delanie mold, while guys like Ertz, McDonald (Rice) are your more traditional TEs.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
gswhoops wrote:I think the big debate this offseason is over the effectiveness of the secondary. Personally, I think the problem stems from our pass rush running out of gas towards the end of the season, combined with Justin Smith getting hurt. It doesn't matter how good your CBs are, if you can't get pressure on the QB then someone will eventually get open.
I get this standpoint, but you can easily turn that argument around and say that the only reason the secondary was adequate to start the season was due to the pass rush ability of the front line. Once the pass rush faded, the secondary was exposed. In a way your argument is basically saying that the secondary is completely reliant upon the front end of the D in order to get their job done. You can also flip it to say that if the back end covers better, than it gives the front end more time to pressure the passer. Its a two way street.
I look at it like this, I know that the talent and horses are in place to get a quality pass rush going. Sure some depth is needed, as with any unit on the team. But the core pass pressure unit is currently in place. I can't say that the necessary horses are in place to reliably cover the back end of the defense. Right now I can't trust that unit to stand alone and do their job. That group needs to be able to make plays and prevent offenses from going hog wild, when the pressure isn't being brought on the front end.
I've discussed and debated this numerous times and with several people. In my mind the secondary is far and away the biggest issue on defense. That sentiment has only further strengthened now that Goldson, the best player in the secondary, has walked out the door.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
Jeff Risdon/Icness released his 4 round mock last night(he has the supp. pick by CLE and NO forfeit in roudn 2 listed, so in actuality, it's 61 not 63 and so on...), here it is:
31. Jesse Williams, NT, Alabama
34. Datone Jones, DE, UCLA
61. Teron Armstead, OT, Arkansas-Pine Bluff
74. D.J. Swearinger, S, South Carolina
93. William Gholston, DE, Michigan St.
125. Matt Scott, QB, Arizona
Very trenches heavy, with 4 of the first 5 going DL or OL. Thinking they might go Safety earlier than round 3 unless they do have someone like Swearinger quite high on their board and think they can get him at that spot. I'm also thinking they go corner with the late 3rd or 4th but I could see them taking someone like Scott if he were available.
31. Jesse Williams, NT, Alabama
34. Datone Jones, DE, UCLA
61. Teron Armstead, OT, Arkansas-Pine Bluff
74. D.J. Swearinger, S, South Carolina
93. William Gholston, DE, Michigan St.
125. Matt Scott, QB, Arizona
Very trenches heavy, with 4 of the first 5 going DL or OL. Thinking they might go Safety earlier than round 3 unless they do have someone like Swearinger quite high on their board and think they can get him at that spot. I'm also thinking they go corner with the late 3rd or 4th but I could see them taking someone like Scott if he were available.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
I would be very happy with Swearinger at #61, so getting him at #74 would be excellent. I like him better than a lot of the safeties who are projected to go ahead of him (Elam, Reid, Phillip Thomas).
Terron Armstead is a bit of a luxury pick but he's a good value at that position, and we do need a swing tackle/insurance for the possibility that we can't resign Davis.
Terron Armstead is a bit of a luxury pick but he's a good value at that position, and we do need a swing tackle/insurance for the possibility that we can't resign Davis.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
I'm starting to think we're going to need to move up in the first round to get a safety. Vaccaro is a top-15 pick and Cyprien probably won't make it past #25.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
gswhoops wrote:I'm starting to think we're going to need to move up in the first round to get a safety. Vaccaro is a top-15 pick and Cyprien probably won't make it past #25.
I don't like moving up for a safety despite the clear need. Especially in this draft where there's several safeties in the 2nd to 4th rounds that look almost as good if not better long term.
DL is the position where I would be willing to move up as it's more valuable and I think there's a pretty large drop off after the first 6-8 are drafted. If any of Floyd, Richardson or Star fall past Carolina at 14, I'd be real tempted to jump. Depending on where the FO has Jones on the board (I love him) I think they could move up to the early 20's to grab him.
Otherwise, I prefer to wait at 31/34 and take BPA. Cyprien or one of the linemen could fall or I'd be looking at either Willliams at DT. Could also see Hopkins, Eifert, Ertz and Allen there. I really like Hopkins longtrem as we'll lose one of Boldin/Crabtree soon, but I also think he's ready immediately.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
EndOfArgument wrote:gswhoops wrote:I'm starting to think we're going to need to move up in the first round to get a safety. Vaccaro is a top-15 pick and Cyprien probably won't make it past #25.
I don't like moving up for a safety despite the clear need. Especially in this draft where there's several safeties in the 2nd to 4th rounds that look almost as good if not better long term.
DL is the position where I would be willing to move up as it's more valuable and I think there's a pretty large drop off after the first 6-8 are drafted. If any of Floyd, Richardson or Star fall past Carolina at 14, I'd be real tempted to jump. Depending on where the FO has Jones on the board (I love him) I think they could move up to the early 20's to grab him.
Otherwise, I prefer to wait at 31/34 and take BPA. Cyprien or one of the linemen could fall or I'd be looking at either Willliams at DT. Could also see Hopkins, Eifert, Ertz and Allen there. I really like Hopkins longtrem as we'll lose one of Boldin/Crabtree soon, but I also think he's ready immediately.
I think it would be worth it for Vaccaro. He's clearly the best covering safety in the draft and should be able to contribute at a high level from day one.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
From what I've seen of Vaccaro, I'm all for trading up high to get him. Plus, no way we can sign this many draft picks. I think we should aim to end up with 6 players form this draft and then parlay the rest into either moving up or acquiring higher picks next year.
With that said, I like Elam as well who projects to be a lower first round pick. However, I think the sky is the limit for Vaccaro whereas I'm not sold on Elam as a center fielder.
With that said, I like Elam as well who projects to be a lower first round pick. However, I think the sky is the limit for Vaccaro whereas I'm not sold on Elam as a center fielder.
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
With so few roster spots available we've got to move up in this draft to maximize value. The 31st and 34th picks would get us up to the 13th pick in this draft, which is Tampa Bay right now but could end up with the Jets after a Revis trade. I would think that would be appealing to NY as 31/34 would be a good value spot to take a QB and still have another pick.
After that I'd propose combining our 2nd (61) and 3rd (93) to move up in the middle of the 2nd round. Dallas at 47 is the right spot on the chart and I think they'd be amenable as well. Picks 173 (6th), 180 (6th) and 237 (7th) get moved for future picks or as part of packages to move up.
Here's my mock:
13 (1st) Sheldon Richardson, Missouri DT/DE
Best potential Cowboy replacement. 50/50 on whether he falls this far. Would also take Star.
47 (2nd) Travis Kelce, Cinncinatti TE
Impossible to know what happened with the suspended season and how that will affect his stock, but he's the total package and worth the move up imo.
74 (3rd) Bacarri Rambo, Georgia S
I think he's the best FS option here, but there's a lot of others in this range.
128 (4th) Matt Scott, Arizona QB
Needs a year or two of coaching on mechanics but looks like a perfect backup (or even more) for Kap as he should be able to run the same offense. Might have to move up a bit to secure him.
131 (4th) Marcus Lattimore, South Carolina RB
I'm on the redshirt train. If he's gone, OLB Quanterus Smith from Western Kentucky would work as well.
157 (5th) Chris Harper, Kansas State WR
Physically similar to Crabtree/Boldin and looks like he has the skills, but played in a horrible offense for WR's.
After that I'd propose combining our 2nd (61) and 3rd (93) to move up in the middle of the 2nd round. Dallas at 47 is the right spot on the chart and I think they'd be amenable as well. Picks 173 (6th), 180 (6th) and 237 (7th) get moved for future picks or as part of packages to move up.
Here's my mock:
13 (1st) Sheldon Richardson, Missouri DT/DE
Best potential Cowboy replacement. 50/50 on whether he falls this far. Would also take Star.
47 (2nd) Travis Kelce, Cinncinatti TE
Impossible to know what happened with the suspended season and how that will affect his stock, but he's the total package and worth the move up imo.
74 (3rd) Bacarri Rambo, Georgia S
I think he's the best FS option here, but there's a lot of others in this range.
128 (4th) Matt Scott, Arizona QB
Needs a year or two of coaching on mechanics but looks like a perfect backup (or even more) for Kap as he should be able to run the same offense. Might have to move up a bit to secure him.
131 (4th) Marcus Lattimore, South Carolina RB
I'm on the redshirt train. If he's gone, OLB Quanterus Smith from Western Kentucky would work as well.
157 (5th) Chris Harper, Kansas State WR
Physically similar to Crabtree/Boldin and looks like he has the skills, but played in a horrible offense for WR's.
Re: 2013 Draft Thread
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Re: 2013 Draft Thread
EndOfArgument wrote:With so few roster spots available we've got to move up in this draft to maximize value. The 31st and 34th picks would get us up to the 13th pick in this draft, which is Tampa Bay right now but could end up with the Jets after a Revis trade. I would think that would be appealing to NY as 31/34 would be a good value spot to take a QB and still have another pick.
After that I'd propose combining our 2nd (61) and 3rd (93) to move up in the middle of the 2nd round. Dallas at 47 is the right spot on the chart and I think they'd be amenable as well. Picks 173 (6th), 180 (6th) and 237 (7th) get moved for future picks or as part of packages to move up.
Here's my mock:
13 (1st) Sheldon Richardson, Missouri DT/DE
Best potential Cowboy replacement. 50/50 on whether he falls this far. Would also take Star.
47 (2nd) Travis Kelce, Cinncinatti TE
Impossible to know what happened with the suspended season and how that will affect his stock, but he's the total package and worth the move up imo.
74 (3rd) Bacarri Rambo, Georgia S
I think he's the best FS option here, but there's a lot of others in this range.
128 (4th) Matt Scott, Arizona QB
Needs a year or two of coaching on mechanics but looks like a perfect backup (or even more) for Kap as he should be able to run the same offense. Might have to move up a bit to secure him.
131 (4th) Marcus Lattimore, South Carolina RB
I'm on the redshirt train. If he's gone, OLB Quanterus Smith from Western Kentucky would work as well.
157 (5th) Chris Harper, Kansas State WR
Physically similar to Crabtree/Boldin and looks like he has the skills, but played in a horrible offense for WR's.
Absolutely agree with the bolded, and I love the idea of moving up for Richardson. He's my top DT in this class, and an ideal fit to be an attacking 3-4 DE like we employ. More generally, I think the idea of moving up into the teens is a good one, especially since some talent WILL fall (this is a deep but not top-heavy draft). I think 31/34 is overpaying though, we ought to be able to pull it off with something like 31/61/4th rounder. Other than Richardson, I like Vaccaro as a trade-up target, and word on the street is that both guys are slipping somewhat.
I like Kelce, but mid-2nd is WAY too high for him. Ertz might still be on the board at that point. Kelce is no better than the 5th best TE on most boards (behind Eifert/Ertz/Escobar/McDonald, and often Reed as well) which means we should be very safe waiting another round to pick him.
Rambo is a solid, high-upside selection.
Scott is an interesting prospect but with McCoy in the fold the Niners will not spend a useful pick on a QB. They might pick one in the 7th or go after a UDFA, but that's about all I can see.
BIG fan of the Niners picking Lattimore and stashing him on PUP for a year. Harper is a solid pick and could be converted to a TE/H-back role like we did with Delanie. Don't see him staying at WR in the pros though, especially since (like you note) we already have two very similar WRs in Crabtree and Boldin.
I think my plan would look very similar, with a few tweaks -
Trade 1.31, 2.31, 4.31 to TB for 1.13
Then, you draft Vaccaro/Sylvester Williams or Richardson/Eric Reid with your first two picks (now 13th and 34th) and go from there.
3.14 - Da'Rick Rogers
3.31 - TE (Kelce, Escobar, or my personal favorite Chris Gragg from Arkansas)
4.34 (comp) - Marcus Lattimore
5.21 - NT (Kwame Geathers or Montori Hughes)
6.6 - CB (DJ Hayden, Josh Johnson)
The rest you go BPA