RealGM

I think it's a fair question.

better in what regards?

WR only - At this point, Stevie has accomplished more individual stats than Crabtree
Health - Kind of hard to gauge, I've seen more Crabtree than Stevie so Stevie would have an edge.
Clutch - I have seen Crabs more clutch due more of a sample size than Stevie(yes Crabs also f up)
Hands - I think this should be even
Separation - not gonna lie, I like Stevie here more so than what Crabs has shown me
Route running - Crabs edge...
Speed - Maybe Stevie the edge
YAC - Crabtree... I will give Crabs the full lead here
Price - Stevie is cheaper than Crabs(with new contract)

Idk what to say, hard to really gauge if(most likely) the faithful have seen Stevie as much as they see Crabtree on a regular basis.... we see highlights of Stevie but watch full games consistently like Crabs, unlikely.

This year? I say Stevie Johnson.

Stevie Johnson also has had the better career so far.

I would have said Michael Crabtree was the better player, and has been the better player since 2012, at the beginning of this season.

State wise it's a tough call. When Crabs is fully healthy and on he's a big time player and I give him the edge. As an overall receiving threat I'd take him. Stevie's a very good receiver who's made some huge plays for us so far. He's been grinding out great catches for us and scoring key touchdowns. He only got 5 snaps in the last game though from what I heard. Crabs is working through an injury and getting extra attention, but he's still our #1 receiving threat that teams are game planning for.

Crabtree

It's not to knock on Stevie but he's getting a lot of benefit from defenses focusing on Crabs, Boldin and VD (when he's in there).

I wouldn't be devastated if we moved on from Crabtree next season but I wouldn't mind signing him to an incentive laden contract either.

Ideally we replace Crabtree with a true deep threat because right now our WR corp is full of redundancy and our offense could absolutely be devastating with a deep threat and some better pass protection up front.

Ease_Ur_Storm wrote:State wise it's a tough call. When Crabs is fully healthy and on he's a big time player and I give him the edge. As an overall receiving threat I'd take him. Stevie's a very good receiver who's made some huge plays for us so far. He's been grinding out great catches for us and scoring key touchdowns. He only got 5 snaps in the last game though from what I heard. Crabs is working through an injury and getting extra attention, but he's still our #1 receiving threat that teams are game planning for.

Big problem: he is often not healthy. Either really injured or at least dinged up most of his career.

zman1 wrote:
Big problem: he is often not healthy. Either really injured or at least dinged up most of his career.

Yet some people want to re-sign him even though he'll probably get at least 8 million per year & probably more. That I don't get. I'll take Stevie & Boldin & let a draft pick (DGB?) & Ellington / Patton / Lloyd battle it out for the 3 spot.

NinerSickness wrote:

zman1 wrote:
Big problem: he is often not healthy. Either really injured or at least dinged up most of his career.

Yet some people want to re-sign him even though he'll probably get at least 8 million per year & probably more. That I don't get. I'll take Stevie & Boldin & let a draft pick (DGB?) & Ellington / Patton / Lloyd battle it out for the 3 spot.

Agree completely. But I think we need to hire someone to help with our receivers, selection and usage. We seem to have a hard time finding good ones other than proven vets and knowing how to use the ones we get. Ginn did nothing here and caught about 50 passes last year. If he had production anything close to that here he would still be doing a great job for us on returns and catching a few passes, stretching defenses some. Not to mention the AJ Jenkins bustola.

This is ridiculous. Crabtree is the best WR on the team. Zman, last week you wanted him benched for Ellington because you're under the impression that speed = deep threat.

Sick has decided he doesn't want Crabtree on the team because he wants us to re-sign our worst pass blocking OL to that 8M per year contract.

Not wanting Crabtree back is fine, but let's not start treating him like he's a bad player.

imac_21 wrote:This is ridiculous. Crabtree is the best WR on the team. Zman, last week you wanted him benched for Ellington because you're under the impression that speed = deep threat.

Sick has decided he doesn't want Crabtree on the team because he wants us to re-sign our worst pass blocking OL to that 8M per year contract.

Not wanting Crabtree back is fine, but let's not start treating him like he's a bad player.

First of all, how is Crabtree better than Boldin right now? Boldin has been and still is FAR more consistent. That probably has a lot to do with the fact that Boldin is more durable.

Second of all, Crabtree is not a bad player. I don't think anyone thinks that. But having both Boldin and Stevie makes him expendable IMO.

Third of all, I want Iupati back regardless of whether Crabtree re-signs or not. And I don't want Crabtree back (unless he signs for like 5 million a season, which would never happen IMO) regardless of whether Iupati re-signs or not. Those opinions are independent of each other.

Fourth of all (unrelated to the topic), I would MUCH rather have an all pro' left guard and 2 1000-yard receivers than not have the all-pro' guard and have 3 1000-yard receivers.

this offense, it its going be hard to get ONE 1000-yard receiver

LOL...

NinerSickness wrote:Third of all, I want Iupati back regardless of whether Crabtree re-signs or not. And I don't want Crabtree back (unless he signs for like 5 million a season, which would never happen IMO) regardless of whether Iupati re-signs or not. Those opinions are independent of each other.

Fourth of all (unrelated to the topic), I would MUCH rather have an all pro' left guard and 2 1000-yard receivers than not have the all-pro' guard and have 3 1000-yard receivers.

The problem is Iupati is only an all pro run blocker right now and it's hard to justify giving him top dollar for just being great in run blocking but poor in pass pro.

If he improves to just being decent in pass pro I would be open to giving him an extension but right now I would rather a guy cheaper that's good in run blocking and pass pro rather than Iupati who's great in run blocking and poor in pass pro.

Fortunately it seems he is improving and the leg was an issue for him and if that's the case he could be at an all-pro level at the end of the year.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2014/10/10/49ers-guard-mike-iupati-charting-his-improvement/

Of course what any of us wants doesn't matter and ultimately I don't see Baalke resigning Iupati at his current demands. I don't think Baalke puts a ton of value in the OG position in the first place and there is a reason we loaded up on two guys that could play OG in the 3rd round this year.

Jikkle wrote:

NinerSickness wrote:Third of all, I want Iupati back regardless of whether Crabtree re-signs or not. And I don't want Crabtree back (unless he signs for like 5 million a season, which would never happen IMO) regardless of whether Iupati re-signs or not. Those opinions are independent of each other.

Fourth of all (unrelated to the topic), I would MUCH rather have an all pro' left guard and 2 1000-yard receivers than not have the all-pro' guard and have 3 1000-yard receivers.

The problem is Iupati is only an all pro run blocker right now and it's hard to justify giving him top dollar for just being great in run blocking but poor in pass pro.

If he improves to just being decent in pass pro I would be open to giving him an extension but right now I would rather a guy cheaper that's good in run blocking and pass pro rather than Iupati who's great in run blocking and poor in pass pro.

Fortunately it seems he is improving and the leg was an issue for him and if that's the case he could be at an all-pro level at the end of the year.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2014/10/10/49ers-guard-mike-iupati-charting-his-improvement/

Of course what any of us wants doesn't matter and ultimately I don't see Baalke resigning Iupati at his current demands. I don't think Baalke puts a ton of value in the OG position in the first place and there is a reason we loaded up on two guys that could play OG in the 3rd round this year.

All of this is true, and I totally don't expect Iupati back; I just hope he is. Actually, it's Boone I'm hoping Thomas or Martin replaces not Iupati. Keep in mind, LG typically has a higher level of pass-protection responsibility than RG does; usually the LG is the better athlete.

A stud FA signing like Ndamukong Suh would make me forget all about Iupati though (if he's not tagged for some reason). He's an @zzhole, so he'd fit right in on the Niners' defense.

NinerSickness wrote:All of this is true, and I totally don't expect Iupati back; I just hope he is. Actually, it's Boone I'm hoping Thomas or Martin replaces not Iupati. Keep in mind, LG typically has a higher level of pass-protection responsibility than RG does; usually the LG is the better athlete.

A stud FA signing like Ndamukong Suh would make me forget all about Iupati though (if he's not tagged for some reason). He's an @zzhole, so he'd fit right in on the Niners' defense.

Ideally Thomas plays LG and Martin plays C. Kilgore has been surprisingly solid and is actually had a pretty good game last week against a good NT in Poe but Martin is just more physically gifted and has a higher ceiling.

Boone simply needs to play better and that needs to happen now. We simply can't continue to have pass pro issues in the interior like we've had and expect to beat good teams. Because at the end of the day to get through the playoffs the passing game needs to at least good as the power running game will only go so far against good defensive lines.

NinerSickness wrote:All of this is true, and I totally don't expect Iupati back; I just hope he is. Actually, it's Boone I'm hoping Thomas or Martin replaces not Iupati. Keep in mind, LG typically has a higher level of pass-protection responsibility than RG does; usually the LG is the better athlete.

A stud FA signing like Ndamukong Suh would make me forget all about Iupati though (if he's not tagged for some reason). He's an @zzhole, so he'd fit right in on the Niners' defense.

Ross Tucker, former NFL center, LG and RG, would like to discuss this with you:

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/04/04/oline-rankings

imac_21 wrote:Ross Tucker, former NFL center, LG and RG, would like to discuss this with you:

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/04/04/oline-rankings

I remember reading that article years ago. Here's my problem with it:

The best pass rusher on the team typically goes up against the LT. If that guy runs a stunt, it's the LG who has to pick him up. And better pass rushing interiour linemen are going to want to line up on the right side of the D-line because they can get the QB's blind side. The reason the C helps out left more than right is probably because defenses sends more blitzes to that side.

I mean, I respect the guy's opinion, but LGs get more money than RGs. That's a fact. Money talks louder than one dude IMO.

NinerSickness wrote:

imac_21 wrote:Ross Tucker, former NFL center, LG and RG, would like to discuss this with you:

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/04/04/oline-rankings

I remember reading that article years ago. Here's my problem with it:

The best pass rusher on the team typically goes up against the LT. If that guy runs a stunt, it's the LG who has to pick him up. And better pass rushing interiour linemen are going to want to line up on the right side of the D-line because they can get the QB's blind side. The reason the C helps out left more than right is probably because defenses sends more blitzes to that side.

I mean, I respect the guy's opinion, but LGs get more money than RGs. That's a fact. Money talks louder than one dude IMO.

He explains why LGs get more money in the article. If you want to argue what's more difficult between RG and LG with a guy who played both those positions in the NFL it's going to be a difficult argument to win. I mean, the guy played both positions. He has a fairly deep understanding of how NFL protection schemes work. I'm going to ake Ross' word over yours. Sorry Sick.

imac_21 wrote:He explains why LGs get more money in the article. If you want to argue what's more difficult between RG and LG with a guy who played both those positions in the NFL it's going to be a difficult argument to win. I mean, the guy played both positions. He has a fairly deep understanding of how NFL protection schemes work. I'm going to ake Ross' word over yours. Sorry Sick.

His explanation: "The greatest reason why left guards are cashing in these days? There are two: 1) The grading system for offensive linemen; and 2) General lack of understanding among some NFL personnel people concerning the difficulty inherent with the different positions."

In other words, a friggn' offensive lineman knows how to value players better than the pretty much every GM in the league? Sorry me??? GMs don't pay more for certain positions because they don't understand those positions. That's ridiculous.

imac_21 wrote:This is ridiculous. Crabtree is the best WR on the team. Zman, last week you wanted him benched for Ellington because you're under the impression that speed = deep threat.

Sick has decided he doesn't want Crabtree on the team because he wants us to re-sign our worst pass blocking OL to that 8M per year contract.

Not wanting Crabtree back is fine, but let's not start treating him like he's a bad player.

He is not a bad player and no one has said that so you are just setting up a strawman argument there. And you have never addressed the fact that he IS injury prone. If you have 3 similar receivers and one misses much more time for injuries than the other two, who do you keep.

And speed is an asset at WR.

zman1 wrote:

imac_21 wrote:This is ridiculous. Crabtree is the best WR on the team. Zman, last week you wanted him benched for Ellington because you're under the impression that speed = deep threat.

Sick has decided he doesn't want Crabtree on the team because he wants us to re-sign our worst pass blocking OL to that 8M per year contract.

Not wanting Crabtree back is fine, but let's not start treating him like he's a bad player.

He is not a bad player and no one has said that so you are just setting up a strawman argument there. And you have never addressed the fact that he IS injury prone. If you have 3 similar receivers and one misses much more time for injuries than the other two, who do you keep.

And speed is an asset at WR.

You wanted to bench him for Bruce Ellington. Bruce Ellington has shown nothing in the offense. If he's not bad, why bench him for someone that hasn't shown anything? "For a deep threat" you say? Ellington hasn't shown the ability to be a deep threat.

"Speed is an asset at WR." Absolutely, but it's not the only one. Ellington is faster than Crabtree, but at this point Crabtree does EVERYTHING else better than Ellington.

As for going deep, we did thrice last week, each time to noted speed demon Brandon Lloyd. One was miscommunication, the other two were key completions that Lloyd made happen with . . . . his blazing speed? Ellington makes neither of those plays. As I've said multiple times, speed =/= deep threat.