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So what exactly is wrong with our offense that we are so bad?

Does it fall on Kaepernick for making some questionable decisions and a few errant throws a game? Seems a lot to just blame on him but maybe?

On paper we should be much better. Our defense has been surprisingly good and have been setting our offense up pretty good.

Our run game has been coming on the last few weeks but our offense still struggles. How can we fix this and what is wrong with the O?

Everyone has had a hand in our offensive struggles but overall the finger is pointed at Roman and the coaches.

The same issues persist since Harbaugh and Roman have came to town and we've had two different QBs and the team has talent at the WR position.

I just feel it's one part defenses aren't fooled by Roman like the initially were in 2011 but the main thing is I just don't think Roman is very good at when it comes to designing and calling a passing attack.

The other problem is sometimes he's too clever for his own good and overthinks things and at times he's too simple and completely predictable.

Now with all that said I don't think Roman is a bad OC just too inconsistent kind of like our offense.

And also in his defense as I alluded to earlier there has been some failed execution that's on the players and not him. Crabtree dropping a pass that would've converted on 3rd down is not on Roman for example.

I agree with Jikkle the entire offense is out of sync. From OLinemen missing a block on a pull, to WRs dropping balls to bad throws/reads to not giving Gore a blow until he is about to pass out to everytime Hyde enters the game we run its everything.

supreme81 wrote:I agree with Jikkle the entire offense is out of sync. From OLinemen missing a block on a pull, to WRs dropping balls to bad throws/reads to not giving Gore a blow until he is about to pass out to everytime Hyde enters the game we run its everything.

Boone missed that one block. The OL was incredible today.

Kaepernick made the tackle on Gore, and he was not accurate today. His play wasn't terrible, but it wasn't good either. It wasn't even average. 16 points w/ sub-mediocre QB play is pretty normal.

I think it's coaching, we have talent at every position but Romans strength is the running game, not a passing attack, and it shows every week.

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generaldreedle wrote:I think it's coaching, we have talent at every position but Romans strength is the running game, not a passing attack, and it shows every week.

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Roman & Harbaugh got Alex Smith a Kyle Williams fumble or 2 away from a SB appearance. This was a guy people wrote off as not good enough to even play in the NFL before they arrived. I don't think coaching is the problem.

You can't get blood from a turnip. Get used to mediocre offense w/ a mediocre QB; gotta just hope the defense is great enough to win it all.

I did like Vernon getting the ball out of back field today. But man get him a screen or something he has to get more shots. Throw a few screens!!!!!!! Get Hyde more involved. Take few deep shots with Lloyd. Way to much talent to have 16 points after forcing 5 turnovers.

NinerSickness wrote:

generaldreedle wrote:I think it's coaching, we have talent at every position but Romans strength is the running game, not a passing attack, and it shows every week.

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Roman & Harbaugh got Alex Smith a Kyle Williams fumble or 2 away from a SB appearance. This was a guy people wrote off as not good enough to even play in the NFL before they arrived. I don't think coaching is the problem.

You can't get blood from a turnip. Get used to mediocre offense w/ a mediocre QB; gotta just hope the defense is great enough to win it all.

Nobody is remotely saying Roman and Harbaugh are Raye and Singletary but that doesn't mean there isn't some problems with coaching.

I've never been a fan of the pass play design or the way it's called and I think it's obvious why Roman was just the run game coordinator at Stanford. The man has talent when it comes to the running game but he's mediocre when it comes to the passing attack and the NFL today simply favors passing over running.

Jikkle wrote:I've never been a fan of the pass play design or the way it's called and I think it's obvious why Roman was just the run game coordinator at Stanford. The man has talent when it comes to the running game but he's mediocre when it comes to the passing attack and the NFL today simply favors passing over running.

If anyone re-watches the game, I'd be curious how many times Kaepernick didn't see open receivers. I'm not saying he did; I'm just curious if he did. If he misses open guys you can't blame that on the OC.

Also, you can't blame the OC when Kaepernick's accuracy is WAY off.

It's tough to punt your finger on one thing. Today, Kap was clearly the weak link. He was horribly inaccurate, just missing open receivers repeatedly. Last week, Kap played very well and the WRs couldn't catch the ball. The week before(Rams), the OL was a disaster. Then the week before that (Broncos), everything kind of fell apart - though I thought Kap had a good first half before he also fell off a cliff.

The overriding commonality is the coaching. Execution has been very poor since Harbaugh took over (and, admittedly, long before that). The offense these days is taking that to another level. 20th in PPG going into today, and that's going to fall. Six-point average in the second half. Average of 2.6 points in the fourth quarter, and no TDs (except Dontae Johnson's pick-six). It is beyond ridiculous. It may not be fair, but the offense has been so bad that at the end of the day the coaching staff has to bear the most blame.

Our LT, LG, RG, RT, RB, TE, and three WRs have either made the pro bowl or been alternates, most of them in the last couple years. Our "weak links" are an incredibly physically talented QB and a center who was considered the best in the draft. We have got to be able to execute consistently on offense. And if we can't, even if it appears to be the players failing to make plays, then to coaching staff has to answer for it.

Completely agree with crimson, And I'll reiterate that I think Roman is brilliant in the run game, But not the passing game.

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CrimsonCrew wrote:It's tough to punt your finger on one thing. Today, Kap was clearly the weak link. He was horribly inaccurate, just missing open receivers repeatedly. Last week, Kap played very well and the WRs couldn't catch the ball. The week before(Rams), the OL was a disaster. Then the week before that (Broncos), everything kind of fell apart - though I thought Kap had a good first half before he also fell off a cliff.

The overriding commonality is the coaching. Execution has been very poor since Harbaugh took over (and, admittedly, long before that). The offense these days is taking that to another level. 20th in PPG going into today, and that's going to fall. Six-point average in the second half. Average of 2.6 points in the fourth quarter, and no TDs (except Dontae Johnson's pick-six). It is beyond ridiculous. It may not be fair, but the offense has been so bad that at the end of the day the coaching staff has to bear the most blame.

Our LT, LG, RG, RT, RB, TE, and three WRs have either made the pro bowl or been alternates, most of them in the last couple years. Our "weak links" are an incredibly physically talented QB and a center who was considered the best in the draft. We have got to be able to execute consistently on offense. And if we can't, even if it appears to be the players failing to make plays, then to coaching staff has to answer for it.

Don't run Frank Gore vs the Rams. Doesn't have Frank Gore--probably the best pass blocking RB in the league--in the game to block on critical downs; instead deferring to Hyde. I feel like the staff is bent on setting up Gore to fail. Misuse of personnel is all on the coaches and no one does it better than Roman

NinerSickness wrote:

Jikkle wrote:I've never been a fan of the pass play design or the way it's called and I think it's obvious why Roman was just the run game coordinator at Stanford. The man has talent when it comes to the running game but he's mediocre when it comes to the passing attack and the NFL today simply favors passing over running.

If anyone re-watches the game, I'd be curious how many times Kaepernick didn't see open receivers. I'm not saying he did; I'm just curious if he did. If he misses open guys you can't blame that on the OC.

Also, you can't blame the OC when Kaepernick's accuracy is WAY off.

I mentioned earlier that Roman isn't completely to blame and the players have their share of the blame as well.

One big reason to look at Roman and really the root of the problem to the offense is the Red Zone and that has been dreadful.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

The team is nearly dead last in terms of scoring TDs in the redzone and that's alarming considering we're tied with KC with 3.3 attempts per game at 12th in the league.

And what further makes that stat alarming is KC is 3rd in the league in scoring TDs in the redzone at 69.70% which means KC gets to the redzone at the same rate but scores TDs 40% more than we do.

Before it becomes a Smith vs Kap thing in 2011 the 9ers were 3rd from last in TDs scored in the RZ at 40% and 15th in the league in 2012 at 54% (2013 was 15th at 53% to throw that in there).

I interpret that as there being a fundamental flaw in our offense on a short field and my feeling is this is where pass play design kills us because Roman's pass attack features long developing pass plays that are useless on a short field. Roman and company struggle to come up with an effective and efficient quick passing game and that's why I feel we struggle in the RZ.

Jikkle wrote:

NinerSickness wrote:

Jikkle wrote:I've never been a fan of the pass play design or the way it's called and I think it's obvious why Roman was just the run game coordinator at Stanford. The man has talent when it comes to the running game but he's mediocre when it comes to the passing attack and the NFL today simply favors passing over running.

If anyone re-watches the game, I'd be curious how many times Kaepernick didn't see open receivers. I'm not saying he did; I'm just curious if he did. If he misses open guys you can't blame that on the OC.

Also, you can't blame the OC when Kaepernick's accuracy is WAY off.

I mentioned earlier that Roman isn't completely to blame and the players have their share of the blame as well.

One big reason to look at Roman and really the root of the problem to the offense is the Red Zone and that has been dreadful.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

The team is nearly dead last in terms of scoring TDs in the redzone and that's alarming considering we're tied with KC with 3.3 attempts per game at 12th in the league.

And what further makes that stat alarming is KC is 3rd in the league in scoring TDs in the redzone at 69.70% which means KC gets to the redzone at the same rate but scores TDs 40% more than we do.

Before it becomes a Smith vs Kap thing in 2011 the 9ers were 3rd from last in TDs scored in the RZ at 40% and 15th in the league in 2012 at 54% (2013 was 15th at 53% to throw that in there).

I interpret that as there being a fundamental flaw in our offense on a short field and my feeling is this is where pass play design kills us because Roman's pass attack features long developing pass plays that are useless on a short field. Roman and company struggle to come up with an effective and efficient quick passing game and that's why I feel we struggle in the RZ.

I agree with much of that, but late in games we haven't even been getting into the red zone lately.

CrimsonCrew wrote:I agree with much of that, but late in games we haven't even been getting into the red zone lately.

I think the staff does a good job in preparing and coming up with a game plan to defeat a defense but they struggle to adjust to the adjustments the defense makes over a course of a game especially at halftime.

It's like once a defense figures out Plan A we don't have a Plan B so it's just keep riding out Plan A and hope for the best.

If the offense has another poor outing this week - which would then be poor outings in back-to-back games against the Giants and 'Skins, two bad Ds - Jim needs to take a page out of big brother Jim's book and can Roman. You just can't have that sort of offensive ineptitude on a team with this much talent and experience.

Jikkle, as far as your post goes, I think that's a strong indictment of Roman. Based on reports, beat writer interviews, etc., the game plan is a collaborative venture, with Harbaugh, Chryst, and the other position coaches weighing in far more than on most teams in devising an offensive plan. However, presumably once we're in games, Roman takes the lead. And what we've seen is the team starting out pretty well on offense (collaborative), then completely devolving as the game progresses (Roman). I'm not prepared to lay all of this on Roman's head, but again, he's the guy who's running the show on that side of the ball.

I also think the decline of Vernon Davis can't be overstated. This offense isn't consistent enough to put together long scoring drives regularly, yet we don't have anyone on offense who is explosive enough to rack up serious yards other than Davis. If we can't threaten people with big plays, at least occasionally, we're going to continue to struggle to break 20 points in a game.

CrimsonCrew wrote:If the offense has another poor outing this week - which would then be poor outings in back-to-back games against the Giants and 'Skins, two bad Ds - Jim needs to take a page out of big brother Jim's book and can Roman. You just can't have that sort of offensive ineptitude on a team with this much talent and experience.

Jikkle, as far as your post goes, I think that's a strong indictment of Roman. Based on reports, beat writer interviews, etc., the game plan is a collaborative venture, with Harbaugh, Chryst, and the other position coaches weighing in far more than on most teams in devising an offensive plan. However, presumably once we're in games, Roman takes the lead. And what we've seen is the team starting out pretty well on offense (collaborative), then completely devolving as the game progresses (Roman). I'm not prepared to lay all of this on Roman's head, but again, he's the guy who's running the show on that side of the ball.

I also think the decline of Vernon Davis can't be overstated. This offense isn't consistent enough to put together long scoring drives regularly, yet we don't have anyone on offense who is explosive enough to rack up serious yards other than Davis. If we can't threaten people with big plays, at least occasionally, we're going to continue to struggle to break 20 points in a game.

About Vernon... its true he is having a down year....

but thats the gamble when your most explosive and/or fastest threat is a TE.....

this team needs a speedster or someone with vertical ability to stretch the field

All good points above. What drives me nuts in throwing a ball 25 yards downfield on a 3rd down and 5 yards. I wish they would stick to Walsh's strategy of shorter routes on 3rd downs to keep drives alive.

CalamityX12 wrote:

CrimsonCrew wrote:If the offense has another poor outing this week - which would then be poor outings in back-to-back games against the Giants and 'Skins, two bad Ds - Jim needs to take a page out of big brother Jim's book and can Roman. You just can't have that sort of offensive ineptitude on a team with this much talent and experience.

Jikkle, as far as your post goes, I think that's a strong indictment of Roman. Based on reports, beat writer interviews, etc., the game plan is a collaborative venture, with Harbaugh, Chryst, and the other position coaches weighing in far more than on most teams in devising an offensive plan. However, presumably once we're in games, Roman takes the lead. And what we've seen is the team starting out pretty well on offense (collaborative), then completely devolving as the game progresses (Roman). I'm not prepared to lay all of this on Roman's head, but again, he's the guy who's running the show on that side of the ball.

I also think the decline of Vernon Davis can't be overstated. This offense isn't consistent enough to put together long scoring drives regularly, yet we don't have anyone on offense who is explosive enough to rack up serious yards other than Davis. If we can't threaten people with big plays, at least occasionally, we're going to continue to struggle to break 20 points in a game.

About Vernon... its true he is having a down year....

but thats the gamble when your most explosive and/or fastest threat is a TE.....

this team needs a speedster or someone with vertical ability to stretch the field

Absolutely. We desperately need speed at WR. This coaching staff just doesn't seem to know what to do with speed, though.

Do we even have any speed at WR other than possibly Ellington?