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Position changes, surprise cuts and trades, and unexpected retirements.

There is a severe shortage of inside linebackers and with Bowman returning after more than a year away and not drafting a single one. Wheeler was signed but why? Corey Lemonier could used a position change, especially with the drafting of Harold. He has the size and speed to play inside just lacks experience and technique.

Vance McDonald has pretty much been a blocking tightend since being drafted , the Dick Butkas comparisons has disappeared as well. The 2015 draft brought us Bell and Anderson, does this mean time is running out on McDonald?

Boone is a rat, plain and simple. Pick out of the trash, kicked off the OSU team and went undrafted. Harbaugh turned him into a useful player and Harbaugh return the Niners back into the playoffs. Trade his ass to the Browns.

Justin Smith, a great presence that will be miss dearly. He hasn't retired yet but this team is a freaking mess.

Another 6-10 awaits, thanks Jed and Trent, just blame yourselves this time.

radtech wrote:Position changes, surprise cuts and trades, and unexpected retirements.

There is a severe shortage of inside linebackers and with Bowman returning after more than a year away and not drafting a single one. Wheeler was signed but why? Corey Lemonier could used a position change, especially with the drafting of Harold. He has the size and speed to play inside just lacks experience and technique.

Vance McDonald has pretty much been a blocking tightend since being drafted , the Dick Butkas comparisons has disappeared as well. The 2015 draft brought us Bell and Anderson, does this mean time is running out on McDonald?

Boone is a rat, plain and simple. Pick out of the trash, kicked off the OSU team and went undrafted. Harbaugh turned him into a useful player and Harbaugh return the Niners back into the playoffs. Trade his ass to the Browns.

Justin Smith, a great presence that will be miss dearly. He hasn't retired yet but this team is a freaking mess.

Another 6-10 awaits, thanks Jed and Trent, just blame yourselves this time.

A few thoughts on the above:

1) I don't see it as a severe shortage of ILBs. All reports are that Bowman is healthy. He will be 18 months removed from the injury, and should be good to go by the start of the season. Wilhoite played fairly well at ILB last year, and is a competent starter at least. Behind those two, we have two vets who aren't truly old (both around 30, though they've seen some hard years) and have had good seasons in the recent past. We also have a run-stopper who was projected to go in the mid rounds in 2014 but timed poorly due to a lingering injury. Most 3-4 teams pull a LB off the field on obvious passing downs. For a couple years, we were fortunate not to have to do that because we had the two most athletic ILBs in the league. So now we've just got one. We can deal with that.

Re: Lemonier, it's a terrible idea. And odd, as you begin the thread seemingly by criticizing the FO for going after position changes. Lemonier may not possess the toughness to play OLB. He certainly doesn't have the toughness to play ILB. It's much harder to go from outside in than the reverse. Inside, you have to be much more assignment-sound, and have a feel for the players in front of you. Skuta, who had always been an ILB, said how much easier OLB was when we switched him there. There's no reason to believe Lemonier has the instincts or knowledge to play inside.

2) It's a prove-it year for Vance. Though the comparisons were to Ditka, not Butkus. I think Anderson may end up on the PUP, IR, or PS this year, but Vance has to show more consistency.

3) Boone wasn't kicked off the OSU team. I believe he started every game as a senior. That said, I don't have much sympathy for him. We gave him more money last year and got nothing in return, other than a shaky first-eight games from him followed by a tolerable final eight. If we received a decent trade offer, I'd strongly consider it.

4) I don't see the team as such a mess as all that. The FO dysfunction is concerning, but in terms of talent on the field, it's not all that bad. We knew we were going to lose all the guys we have lost other than Willis, Borland, and Ray McDonald. Only one of the ILBs was going to start this year, so we're down one very good ILB. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world. Wilhoite can start and the D won't lose much of a beat (see the early part of last season). Losing McDonald and Smith in one year would hurt, but we've been preparing for this for years. Sure, we need young players to step up, but we've got the young players to do so.

As for the rest, the departures were expected. Cox and Culliver weren't even playing when the team was going to the NFC Championship game (Culliver was in 2012, but he was also the weakest link on D in the Super Bowl). They were fill-ins, as were the guys who started in those championship games. Crabtree was going to leave, and given how he played last year, is no loss. Iupati was going to leave, we drafted his replacement last year, and his pass blocking had regressed over recent years. Skuta would have been a backup on our current roster. Gore is irreplaceable in so many ways, but in terms of running the football there's a good chance we'll be improved at the position this year.

Are we going to challenge the Hawks next year? Only if the offense really comes together and the D continues to play exceptionally with a lot of new faces. But there's a huge difference between twelve wins and six. I don't see any reason why this team can't win at least eight games, even playing in the toughest division in football.

CrimsonCrew wrote:

radtech wrote:Position changes, surprise cuts and trades, and unexpected retirements.

There is a severe shortage of inside linebackers and with Bowman returning after more than a year away and not drafting a single one. Wheeler was signed but why? Corey Lemonier could used a position change, especially with the drafting of Harold. He has the size and speed to play inside just lacks experience and technique.

Vance McDonald has pretty much been a blocking tightend since being drafted , the Dick Butkas comparisons has disappeared as well. The 2015 draft brought us Bell and Anderson, does this mean time is running out on McDonald?

Boone is a rat, plain and simple. Pick out of the trash, kicked off the OSU team and went undrafted. Harbaugh turned him into a useful player and Harbaugh return the Niners back into the playoffs. Trade his ass to the Browns.

Justin Smith, a great presence that will be miss dearly. He hasn't retired yet but this team is a freaking mess.

Another 6-10 awaits, thanks Jed and Trent, just blame yourselves this time.

A few thoughts on the above:

1) I don't see it as a severe shortage of ILBs. All reports are that Bowman is healthy. He will be 18 months removed from the injury, and should be good to go by the start of the season. Wilhoite played fairly well at ILB last year, and is a competent starter at least. Behind those two, we have two vets who aren't truly old (both around 30, though they've seen some hard years) and have had good seasons in the recent past. We also have a run-stopper who was projected to go in the mid rounds in 2014 but timed poorly due to a lingering injury. Most 3-4 teams pull a LB off the field on obvious passing downs. For a couple years, we were fortunate not to have to do that because we had the two most athletic ILBs in the league. So now we've just got one. We can deal with that.

Re: Lemonier, it's a terrible idea. And odd, as you begin the thread seemingly by criticizing the FO for going after position changes. Lemonier may not possess the toughness to play OLB. He certainly doesn't have the toughness to play ILB. It's much harder to go from outside in than the reverse. Inside, you have to be much more assignment-sound, and have a feel for the players in front of you. Skuta, who had always been an ILB, said how much easier OLB was when we switched him there. There's no reason to believe Lemonier has the instincts or knowledge to play inside.

2) It's a prove-it year for Vance. Though the comparisons were to Ditka, not Butkus. I think Anderson may end up on the PUP, IR, or PS this year, but Vance has to show more consistency.

3) Boone wasn't kicked off the OSU team. I believe he started every game as a senior. That said, I don't have much sympathy for him. We gave him more money last year and got nothing in return, other than a shaky first-eight games from him followed by a tolerable final eight. If we received a decent trade offer, I'd strongly consider it.

4) I don't see the team as such a mess as all that. The FO dysfunction is concerning, but in terms of talent on the field, it's not all that bad. We knew we were going to lose all the guys we have lost other than Willis, Borland, and Ray McDonald. Only one of the ILBs was going to start this year, so we're down one very good ILB. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world. Wilhoite can start and the D won't lose much of a beat (see the early part of last season). Losing McDonald and Smith in one year would hurt, but we've been preparing for this for years. Sure, we need young players to step up, but we've got the young players to do so.

As for the rest, the departures were expected. Cox and Culliver weren't even playing when the team was going to the NFC Championship game (Culliver was in 2012, but he was also the weakest link on D in the Super Bowl). They were fill-ins, as were the guys who started in those championship games. Crabtree was going to leave, and given how he played last year, is no loss. Iupati was going to leave, we drafted his replacement last year, and his pass blocking had regressed over recent years. Skuta would have been a backup on our current roster. Gore is irreplaceable in so many ways, but in terms of running the football there's a good chance we'll be improved at the position this year.

Are we going to challenge the Hawks next year? Only if the offense really comes together and the D continues to play exceptionally with a lot of new faces. But there's a huge difference between twelve wins and six. I don't see any reason why this team can't win at least eight games, even playing in the toughest division in football.

^^^This.

There's plenty of reasons why this team may not win 8.....

CalamityX12 wrote:There's plenty of reasons why this team may not win 8.....

Sure. We have a fairly brutal start to the season, and there has been a lot of turnover. Who knows how the new staff will do? But the team won eight games last year - and really should have won ten but for truly fluky ends against STL and SD - with an injury-riddled D and an offense that simply couldn't function in the second half. This team could win four games or it could win ten. Neither would shock me.

Feel the same way. There still is enough talent on this team to win 10 games or it could lose 10 games. Too many variables right now. Don't know what to expect with this coaching staff. Can Mangini and staff be as successful as Fangio's staff was? Can the offensive coaching staff improve from last year's disappointing output? Can Chryst be an effective OC?

CrimsonCrew wrote:

CalamityX12 wrote:There's plenty of reasons why this team may not win 8.....

Sure. We have a fairly brutal start to the season, and there has been a lot of turnover. Who knows how the new staff will do? But the team won eight games last year - and really should have won ten but for truly fluky ends against STL and SD - with an injury-riddled D and an offense that simply couldn't function in the second half. This team could win four games or it could win ten. Neither would shock me.

Last year's team was under a different staff, head coach, offense(good or bad), defense.... few key players are removed, many starters are gone, lots of leaders in the lockerroom have departed, no real injection of talent outside of dependent positions(WR, RB), poor draft aid etc....

now we replaced the coaching staff with inferior(or yet to be proven) parts, controversial at best.

schedule is tougher, 3rd rank IIRC. Many teams shown signs of progress, incline where we have decline.

Maybe there'll be a surprise but maybe there won't be... its not a talented bunch entering this season as oppose to Harbaugh's rookie year. Lots of entitled question marks IMO.

so we'll see.

CalamityX12 wrote:

CrimsonCrew wrote:

CalamityX12 wrote:There's plenty of reasons why this team may not win 8.....

Sure. We have a fairly brutal start to the season, and there has been a lot of turnover. Who knows how the new staff will do? But the team won eight games last year - and really should have won ten but for truly fluky ends against STL and SD - with an injury-riddled D and an offense that simply couldn't function in the second half. This team could win four games or it could win ten. Neither would shock me.

Last year's team was under a different staff, head coach, offense(good or bad), defense.... few key players are removed, many starters are gone, lots of leaders in the lockerroom have departed, no real injection of talent outside of dependent positions(WR, RB), poor draft aid etc....

now we replaced the coaching staff with inferior(or yet to be proven) parts, controversial at best.

schedule is tougher, 3rd rank IIRC. Many teams shown signs of progress, incline where we have decline.

Maybe there'll be a surprise but maybe there won't be... its not a talented bunch entering this season as oppose to Harbaugh's rookie year. Lots of entitled question marks IMO.

so we'll see.

It would be hard for the offense to be as bad as it was last year. I put a lot of that on the coaching: our offense was one of the best in the league in the first quarter (6th in points scored at 5.8), was good in the second quarter (8th at 7.6), and then collapsed in the second half (24th in the league with 3.6 in the third, dead last at 2.1 in the fourth). That dynamic happened almost every week, though some weeks we didn't score much in the first half. It's clear the offense had the talent to move the ball and score, but the playcalling and execution weren't there, particularly as other teams caught on. The execution has been a recurring problem over the past four years, and I fully expect that to improve.

I also think just adding the threat of Torrey Smith should pay dividends at all positions on offense. We have so desperately needed a deep threat in the recent past. Now we have one of the better ones in the league. Even if Kap doesn't hit him consistently, the safeties will still have to back up a step or two. Boldin should get less attention. Davis should get less attention. We shouldn't see 8+ defenders in the box as often. I expect the offense to be better this year, even losing Iupati and Gore.

The D is tougher to project given all the new faces, but I'll admit I'm intrigued. First and foremost, we were absolutely destroyed by injuries and suspensions last year. We lost starters for more than half the year at both ILB spots, OLB, our "top" CB, and our first two NTs. Add in our nickel CB, and that's over half the "starting" spots on D, not to mention the backups who also got hurt. Beyond that, one of my big complaints about Fangio (really my only complaint, and it's a minor one) was that he hated getting the young guys on the field if he had any viable alternative. I think some of these guys could have been contributing and helping to keep our starters fresh in the playoffs. Aldon should be back to form and is playing for a contract. Carradine was doing a nice job of getting after the QB late last year when he finally got a chance. Lynch should only be better at doing so from the other side. Williams and Dorsey should be healthy and should lock down the NT position. Dial can push out to LDE and stuff the run effectively there instead of getting stuck at NT de to injuries. Dockett is old and coming off injury, but can rush the passer and has something to prove. I'm very interested to see what the DL does.

Our safeties were great last year and should be better now that they've had a year together. Bowman, who was robbed of DPOY in 2013, should be back to form. As much as I love Willis, he wasn't the same guy the past couple years with the nagging injuries; I think even coming back from injury Bowman may outplay him. Wilhoite started all year on a top-5 D, so even if he is a downgrade, he's not such a liability that we'll fall apart. The glaring question on D is at CB, but going into last year everyone thought that was going to be a disaster, and instead our starters both played well and got big money. That could have been Donatell/Fangio, but I think you've got to credit Baalke's eye for talent at the position.

I think there's a very good chance the team could struggle. And given the schedule, if we lose a few right off the bat - which is entirely possible - the season could snowball and be a disaster. But there's also a legitimate chance this team could challenge for a playoff spot. As much as I wouldn't trade consistent greatness, I must admit I find the uncertainty exciting.

Oh, and as far as the draft, it's pretty clear we're relying more on past drafts than this one to make the difference. Marcus Martin, B. Thomas, Hyde, Ellington, V. McDonald, Carradine, Dial, and the young CBs will be asked to step up. If none of them do, then we're in serious trouble. But even if just the right three or four step up, this team could be right back in the mix.