Niners Should Trade / Cut Torrey Smith

NinerSickness · Post #1 » by **NinerSickness** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:40 am

I thought the Torrey Smith signing was a dumb one from the beginning. And I know that not many receivers would be putting up big numbers with DumbDumb throwing them the ball, but it makes zero sense to have a receiver on the team making #1 money when the team doesn't even have the ability to get him the ball.

This team needs to be rebuild from the lines out. Spend that cap money on a guard or a stud DL or OLB. The team can afford to keep Torrey, but I think they could make better progress using the money elsewhere.

Post #2 » by **CalamityX12** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:24 pm

upgrade the QB first, then we'll see Torrey make his money here n there.... at least much more consistent with the tunnel vision QB we have now

zman1 · Post #3 » by **zman1** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:28 pm

Ef that idea, just make the offense operate better and get him the ball on long passes. We have had a couple great ones, but most games we never even attempt a long pass. Last game I think his only target was 2 yards down the field. If this team is going to be effective at all, they need his deep threat, but they need to make him more of a threat. Bad idea.

wco81 · Post #4 » by **wco81** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:16 pm

If they cut him, that wouldn't give them cap relief would it? Wouldn't it accelerate his signing bonus?

And he will get back at most a what a fourth rounder in a trade?

B-King · Post #5 » by **B-King** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:43 pm

I wouldn't want to make any move at this point that would lower accountability for the coaching staff. Just want a complete clean slate from the GM on down. There is nothing we can do with Jorkie unless someone wants to take matters into their own hands lol.

Post #6 » by **Ray_Dogg** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:26 am

We have like $44M in cap space next year. No need to cut Torrey.

CrimsonCrew · Post #7 » by **CrimsonCrew** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:08 am

Smith's contract would count $9.5 million against the cap if we cut him or trade him this season, and $6.5 million next year. It's unrealistic to get rid of him at this point. This team has been struggling mightily, but it has a lot of young players and some talent. With the right moves - admittedly, not a ton of faith in Baalke to make the right moves, or our coaching staff to get the most out of them - we could get back in the hunt next year. QB becomes all important, though. Unless we spend everything on OL and D and try to recreate the 2011/2012 teams.

DoobieKeebler · Post #8 » by **DoobieKeebler** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:16 am

No, no, no, no.

What does SF get in return if they trade Torrey Smith? A conditional 5th at best? No thnx.

Beyond Torrey Smith the Niners WR cupboard is close to bare. Sure there is Boldin, but this year is the final year of his current contract and even if Baalke tries to resign him, his body language is not that of a player who wants to be on this team anymore. But say he is willing to sign another contract, I would be very weary of resigning him because his on-field mini tantrums could poison the well of younger guys on this rebuilding team who look to him on how to behave.

Meanwhile, down the depth chart there is Simpson, who is no better than a #3 WR and is a constant danger to break the law or run afoul of league rules yet again (especially now that teams can be punished for the mistakes of players). He isn't even worth the second year of his contract unless he breaks onto the scene and has gaudy numbers over the second half of this season.

NinerSickness · Post #9 » by **NinerSickness** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:17 am

CalamityX12 wrote:upgrade the QB first, then we'll see Torrey make his money here n there.... at least much more consistent with the tunnel vision QB we have now

I'm just afraid that by the time the team could develop a decent QB, Torrey will be pushing 30 and hitting the fat part of his contract. It really serves no purpose to have him on the team at this point. He can only really help the team in 2017 or 2018, and that's a best-case scenario where the team drafts a good QB, and he develops quickly.

Ray_Dogg wrote:We have like $44M in cap space next year. No need to cut Torrey.

True, but you never know how much cap room they'll have in 2017, 2018 & 2019. To build a SB team from a piece of crap that is the 2015 Niners, you've got to think at least 2-3 years ahead.

CrimsonCrew · Post #10 » by **CrimsonCrew** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:21 am

What's his trade value, Sick? Obviously we're not cutting him.

NinerSickness · Post #11 » by **NinerSickness** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:33 am

CrimsonCrew wrote:What's his trade value, Sick? Obviously we're not cutting him.

Trade value? Not much. 5th or 6th rounder I'd imagine. I don't expect the team to cut him, but that never stopped me from suggesting as much before.

The point is that having Torrey on the team right now is like having a snowmobile on a submarine: it just takes up space & serves no purpose.

Post #12 » by **Ray_Dogg** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:06 pm

NinerSickness wrote:
CalamityX12 wrote:upgrade the QB first, then we'll see Torrey make his money here n there.... at least much more consistent with the tunnel vision QB we have now

I'm just afraid that by the time the team could develop a decent QB, Torrey will be pushing 30 and hitting the fat part of his contract. It really serves no purpose to have him on the team at this point. He can only really help the team in 2017 or 2018, and that's a best-case scenario where the team drafts a good QB, and he develops quickly.

Ray_Dogg wrote:We have like $44M in cap space next year. No need to cut Torrey.

True, but you never know how much cap room they'll have in 2017, 2018 & 2019. To build a SB team from a piece of crap that is the 2015 Niners, you've got to think at least 2-3 years ahead.

When he is 30 his deal is done. Baalke hasn't drafted a single starting WR. I'm willing to bet we have someone else starting at QB next year. He will need Torrey otherwise he will have **** to throw to and that could kill his development.
Lynch bombing passes to Smith. I want to see that.

The very last thing you should worry about is the cap. The cap keeps rising. We will have even more space when Kaep is sent packing. I can only think of two guys that will get a big raise when re-signed and that is Reid and possibly Lynch. There is no need to pay Hyde a ton of money; a capable GM could draft his replacement.

Another $5.85M of space could be easily attained by cutting Bethea and Pears this off-season.

Post #13 » by **Ray_Dogg** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:31 pm

If we cut Kaep, Bethea and Pears in the off-season then we would have $59,382,243 in cap space.
As our roster stands right now we have $68,118,266 in 2017.
Our roster heading into the future is void of veteran and unfortunately young talent in need of a raise. It pretty much requires a massive foray into the free agent market unless York and Baalke don't go that route. In that case heading into the next two drafts we would have like 10 rookies making the team each year to even fill a roster. In order to be good Baalke would need to mine like 10 starters there. Not happening.

zman1 · Post #14 » by **zman1** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:37 pm

This is just Ninersickness getting at Kap in a backhanded manner: "We have the worst quarterback to ever play the game so why have a good receiver?" And as ridiculous and delusional as ever.

Post #15 » by **Ray_Dogg** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:40 pm

Start figuring out what free agents you want. There is no way it isn't happening. York would be public enemy #1 after this season if nothing is done. If only we had a good GM because Maraathe could absolutely slay the cap configurations for the free agents.

Post #16 » by **CalamityX12** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:33 pm

I want Wilkerson... and I won't stop moaning about it lol....

arich35 · Post #17 » by **arich35** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:23 pm

Why don't we just get rid of everyone and start from scratch?

Post #18 » by **Ray_Dogg** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:29 pm

arich35 wrote:Why don't we just get rid of everyone and start from scratch?

Aside from those three you can add Devey. Coaching staff, GM/scouts I'm all for hitting reset.

wco81 · Post #19 » by **wco81** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:48 pm

Ray_Dogg wrote:Start figuring out what free agents you want. There is no way it isn't happening. York would be public enemy #1 after this season if nothing is done. If only we had a good GM because Maraathe could absolutely slay the cap configurations for the free agents.

Would you really be surprised if the most York did was to fire the coordinators and/or other assistants? And cut Kap of course, but not necessarily for football reasons.

I wouldn't be.

49er4life1979 · Post #20 » by **49er4life1979** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:33 pm

DoobieKeebler wrote:No, no, no, no.

What does SF get in return if they trade Torrey Smith? A conditional 5th at best? No thnx.

Beyond Torrey Smith the Niners WR cupboard is close to bare. Sure there is Boldin, but this year is the final year of his current contract and even if Baalke tries to resign him, his body language is not that of a player who wants to be on this team anymore. But say he is willing to sign another contract, I would be very weary of resigning him because his on-field mini tantrums could poison the well of younger guys on this rebuilding team who look to him on how to behave.

Meanwhile, down the depth chart there is Simpson, who is no better than a #3 WR and is a constant danger to break the law or run afoul of league rules yet again (especially now that teams can be punished for the mistakes of players). He isn't even worth the second year of his contract unless he breaks onto the scene and has gaudy numbers over the second half of this season.

I am totally against the idea of cutting Torrey. He was brought in to do one thing, and thats be the vertical threat and stretch defenses. Of course he cant do it all by himself, you need a QB and an OL that keeps the QB upright to be able to get the ball....What I am most shocked about is how few reps Bruce Ellington has gotten. Only 10 total snaps on the season. But in those 10 snaps, he has 4 catches. Hmm.. Maybe the coaches need to involve him more...I wonder how good Patton and Ellington would look playing with a real QB say Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady to name a couple. They'd be doing what Amendola and Edelman are doing now.