BAALKE VS MCCLOUGHAN

[49er4life1979]

Just thought I would take a stroll down memory lane comparing the current and previous GM of the 49ers...Overall advantage definitely McCloughan. The biggest difference lies in the total number of franchise players Scot was able to find as compared to Baalke. In addition to several early rounders like Vernon Davis, Patrick Willis, Joe Staley, Scot also was able to find several mid round gems like Frank Gore, Ray McDonald, Dashon Goldson, Delanie Walker, and Paryl Haralson. Yes he whiffed on taking Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers, and his entire 2008 was bad, as was most 2009 with the exception of Crabtree. Still Crab was a reach in the top 10 and maybe even 1st round...BUt overall, the playmakers he found can definitely be labeled as playmakers...Baalke on the other hand started off well in 2010 (yes he made the picks even though the board may have already been set) with AD (trade up), Iupati, and a 3rd round GM in Bowman. 2011 was a great across the board. Too bad hardly anyone from that draft is still on the team, Aldon Smith being gone hurts the most. And Kap will likely be gone too. Culliver was a nice find in 3rd round but definitely not worth the 8 million he got from the Skins. Kilgore is decent for a 5th rounder....After that, his drafting overall is worse than mediocre....2012 sucked, 2013, again how many franchise players? Reid is decent but definitely replaceable. Dial, a nice find in round 5 and overall a decent player, not great. Tank and Lemonier have been disasters and McDonald has been very mediocre despite big potential. I wanted them to draft Kawaan Short instead of Tank, but oh well now...2014 I think has a franchise player in Hyde and in Lynch ( great find in round 5). It would've also had Borland had he not chosen to retire. Martin has been atrocious, and Thomas is an unknown, and Ellington has sucked this year - he can hardly even get on the field...Too early to call 2015 draft..So overall, more impact players under Scot. However, if there is one mitigating factor in Baalke's favor, that would be that he has mostly drafted from the mid to late 20s in each round, whereas Scot usually drafted top 10...The only time Baalke drafted top 10 was in 2011 and he hit it out of the park, in 2010 he drafted close to the top 10 and produced a good one as well. So hopefully he knocks 2016 way out of the park!

[Pattersonca65]

Yea, Regarding 2010 Baalke vs McG, its water under the bridge at this point. From 2012 on, Baalke has missed on too many picks and FA signings. Yes, he has made a few good picks in the draft and seems to find good secondary picks, but on offense his picks have been a disaster and when you look at his overall body of work the last three years, I don't see a championship contending roster being built.

[49er4life1979]

Yea, Regarding 2010 Baalke vs McG, its water under the bridge at this point. From 2012 on, Baalke has missed on too many picks and FA signings. Yes, he has made a few good picks in the draft and seems to find good secondary picks, but on offense his picks have been a disaster and when you look at his overall body of work the last three years, I don't see a championship contending roster being built.

I agree. Since 2012 not much - only two players Baalke has drafted can be considered franchise players thus far - Carlos Hyde and Aaron Lynch. Too early to call 2015.

[wco81]

Anyone know how the Redskins rookie class, which I believe McCloughan ran for the first time this year, has fared?

http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-2/Infographic-Redskins-2015-Draft-Class/d9de8e16-9d40-48b8-8ca9-265d41ab7e6f

[CrimsonCrew]

Just too many guys who aren't panning out. Going into this year, we needed guys like Carradine, McDonald, Marcus Martin, Brandon Thomas, etc., to contribute. We're finally seeing some good things from Ward, which is nice. Armstead has looked promising - frankly, it's a mystery why he isn't playing more at this point. But without some of these second and third rounders excelling, we can't continue to compete. Lemonier has been a real disappointment. Reid hasn't met his potential - admittedly likely due in part to the concussions.

I think this team, particularly the D, is closer to being competitive than it appears when looking at the results this season. One or two more pieces on D and we would have a shot at playoff contention, at least. But to put so many relatively high picks into the OL, for instance, and to get nothing out of Martin (who has been awful) and Thomas (who can't find the field) has really hurt this year in particular. To say nothing of the WRs and TEs. Tough not to question coaching to some extent, though, when you see a guy like Patton, with obvious talent, but no focus or discipline, or McDonald simply unable to get out of his own way and make plays that are staring him in the face.

[Pattersonca65]

Just too many guys who aren't panning out. Going into this year, we needed guys like Carradine, McDonald, Marcus Martin, Brandon Thomas, etc., to contribute. We're finally seeing some good things from Ward, which is nice. Armstead has looked promising - frankly, it's a mystery why he isn't playing more at this point. But without some of these second and third rounders excelling, we can't continue to compete. Lemonier has been a real disappointment. Reid hasn't met his potential - admittedly likely due in part to the concussions.

I think this team, particularly the D, is closer to being competitive than it appears when looking at the results this season. One or two more pieces on D and we would have a shot at playoff contention, at least. But to put so many relatively high picks into the OL, for instance, and to get nothing out of Martin (who has been awful) and Thomas (who can't find the field) has really hurt this year in particular. To say nothing of the WRs and TEs. Tough not to question coaching to some extent, though, when you see a guy like Patton, with obvious talent, but no focus or discipline, or McDonald simply unable to get out of his own way and make plays that are staring him in the face.

Hard for me to blame coaching for McDonaldd issues. His issues have existed through two coaching staffs. And look at Celek, I can't remember him dropping a pass. I think Celek has played pretty well.

[CrimsonCrew]

Fair on McDonald. Even watching the college highlights on Youtube, he never had good hands. He didn't have problems with drops they way he has in the NFL, but just not a soft hands catcher. It's a real shame, cause he's big and fast, gets open, and has turned into a pretty good blocker. I like what we've seen from Bell to date, though. I think he's a guy with a lot of upside. And MUCH more natural hands than McDonald.

Patton is more of a mystery, though it may just be a personality thing. Frustrating. Same with Ellington. Two steps forward, one step back with both of those guys. The future is now; they need to start cleaning it up.

[Ease_Ur_Storm]

McDonald needs to stop all other training and get certified in the Vernon Davis jug machine non-stone-hand course. If he could do that for 12-14 hours per day (everyday) as soon as the season ends then he may eventually one day develop mediocre hands. Too bad that will be for another team.

Patton and Ellington are polar opposite players to me. Patton displays speed but is reckless and still rought around the edges. He's definitely more fast than quick but he's shown some quickness. He may be able to develop into a 3rd receiver. Sorry to say it but Ellington's just not a good pro. He lacks burst and breakaway speed. He's not quick enough to consisently make guys miss. With his skill set he should be a good at punt returner, but he's not. Right now Patton is surprisingly the better player because he's at least shown some flashes. If we could somehow mix them together and give Ellington Patton's burst and intensity then maybe we'd have a decent punt returner and slot receiver.

[Pattersonca65]

Fair on McDonald. Even watching the college highlights on Youtube, he never had good hands. He didn't have problems with drops they way he has in the NFL, but just not a soft hands catcher. It's a real shame, cause he's big and fast, gets open, and has turned into a pretty good blocker. I like what we've seen from Bell to date, though. I think he's a guy with a lot of upside. And MUCH more natural hands than McDonald.

Patton is more of a mystery, though it may just be a personality thing. Frustrating. Same with Ellington. Two steps forward, one step back with both of those guys. The future is now; they need to start cleaning it up.

I like Bell's potential and I also like Celek. Celek might not be a top flight TE but I liked what I saw from him when Gabbert took over. Patton and Ellington I can't figure out. Not blown away by either as special teams returners. Not sure why they aren't part of the offense. I would guess it is a number of factors including player inconsistency, poor coaching/play calling, and QB issues.

[CrimsonCrew]

McDonald needs to stop all other training and get certified in the Vernon Davis jug machine non-stone-hand course. If he could do that for 12-14 hours per day (everyday) as soon as the season ends then he may eventually one day develop mediocre hands. Too bad that will be for another team.

Patton and Ellington are polar opposite players to me. Patton displays speed but is reckless and still rought around the edges. He's definitely more fast than quick but he's shown some quickness. He may be able to develop into a 3rd receiver. Sorry to say it but Ellington's just not a good pro. He lacks burst and breakaway speed. He's not quick enough to consisently make guys miss. With his skill set he should be a good at punt returner, but he's not. Right now Patton is surprisingly the better player because he's at least shown some flashes. If we could somehow mix them together and give Ellington Patton's burst and intensity then maybe we'd have a decent punt returner and slot receiver.

Ellington has shown pretty good quickness in the past, and is a better return guy than he receives credit for. He hasn't broken any, but when he catches the ball cleanly, he's good a generating positive yardage. His issues have been making the catch, and perhaps excessive fair catches to a somewhat lesser extent, though he's fielded a lot of punts inside the twenty because of our awful offense. He has also been effective from the slot when we've given him opportunities there. I can't remember the last time he caught a pass, though. I'm not wedded to him returning punts or kicks, but I would like to see us using him more as a receiver over the final two weeks. I don't know what the coaching staff is waiting for in terms of playing some of these young guys more. Armstead should be starting at this point.

[Pattersonca65]

The coaching staff baffles me the way they are playing the team at this point of the season. They play conservatively and playing certain vets like the team is still in playoff hunt or playing for playoff position. They ought to be playing the young guys more. Players on the bubble or rookies that we need to get a better handle of. Even Jarred Hayne. Why not let him play. He can't be much worse at this point. We have nothing to lose.

[49er4life1979]

I like Bell's potential and I also like Celek. Celek might not be a top flight TE but I liked what I saw from him when Gabbert took over. Patton and Ellington I can't figure out. Not blown away by either as special teams returners. Not sure why they aren't part of the offense. I would guess it is a number of factors including player inconsistency, poor coaching/play calling, and QB issues.[/quote]

Patton is actually having his best season statistically, 28 catches 333 yards, 1TD...Ellington is the one I want to see a lot more from, he has more potential of the two. I agree with you on the TEs. Think we keep Celek? McDonald has one more season and we also have Bell. They will give McDonald every chance possible to show he can be the long term answer at TE as they have invested a 2nd rounder in him.

[CrimsonCrew]

The coaching staff baffles me the way they are playing the team at this point of the season. They play conservatively and playing certain vets like the team is still in playoff hunt or playing for playoff position. They ought to be playing the young guys more. Players on the bubble or rookies that we need to get a better handle of. Even Jarred Hayne. Why not let him play. He can't be much worse at this point. We have nothing to lose.

Yep. Part of my complaint with this staff. Forget Jerome Simpson. Get Ellington out there. Get Armstead out there. If Lynch comes back, bench Brooks and let Harold start more.

[wco81]

Well you presume he's fighting for his job, try to dress up a poor team as much as he can.

[MHSL82]

Well, I'm sure glad that Harbaugh didn't get his former player in Baldwin. (Sarcasm.)

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/16858/with-family-as-a-foundation-seahawks-doug-baldwin-enjoys-his-best-season

[Ease_Ur_Storm]

Ellington has shown pretty good quickness in the past, and is a better return guy than he receives credit for. He hasn't broken any, but when he catches the ball cleanly, he's good a generating positive yardage. His issues have been making the catch, and perhaps excessive fair catches to a somewhat lesser extent, though he's fielded a lot of punts inside the twenty because of our awful offense. He has also been effective from the slot when we've given him opportunities there. I can't remember the last time he caught a pass, though. I'm not wedded to him returning punts or kicks, but I would like to see us using him more as a receiver over the final two weeks. I don't know what the coaching staff is waiting for in terms of playing some of these young guys more. Armstead should be starting at this point.[/quote]

Ellington's quickness has not been on display this year, and I think that's the main reason why he's not been anywhere on offense. I've been waiting and waiting and waiting for him to show something but it's just not happening. Patton must be outplaying him in practice or he'd be out there more. He's a boring steady punt returner, and that's fine but definitely open for a late round slot receiver to come in and take the job one of these years.

[wco81]

You have to remember, 49ers have been at the bottom end of the league in the number of 3 and 4 WR sets.

They worked more on integrating TEs than they have slot WRs.

[wco81]

Preston Smith, a second round pick by McCloughan, led all rookies in sacks and just got a safety against Aaron Rodgers in the playoff game.

[yellowknifer]

They showed Scott on the sideline and he looked hammered.

[NinerSickness]

It's ironic McClouhgan was fired for being an alcoholic, and Baalke's first pick in his first full draft as GM was Aldon Smith.