2017-18 CFB SEASON / '18 NFL DRAFT

[NinerSickness]

Billy Price is rated as the top C (although the dude from Michigan might have a higher floor IMO)...

But how do you draft nerds think Price measures up to his former teammate Pat Elfein? The guy the Niners should've taken instead of Witherspoon.

[I_am_1z]

Billy Price is rated as the top C (although the dude from Michigan might have a higher floor IMO)...

But how do you draft nerds think Price measures up to his former teammate Pat Elfein? The guy the Niners should've taken instead of Witherspoon.

We definitely should have taken Witherspoon. We just need to give him a chance.

[NinerSickness]

We definitely should have taken Witherspoon. We just need to give him a chance.

Dude's soft. Elfein is already one of the best OL on the Vikings.

[I_am_1z]

We definitely should have taken Witherspoon. We just need to give him a chance.

Dude's soft. Elfein is already one of the best OL on the Vikings.

I don't remember anyone complaining when Patrick Peterson was non existent on tackles...

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

Chip Kelly did a telestrator of one of Falk's TD passes in the red zone.

Spread formation and on this play, two of his WRs were doubled. So he found the third read and hit him on a skinny post to either a TE or a slot WR, pretty accurate placement.

I don't know though, none of Mike Leach's previous QBs have made it in the NFL, despite the often gaudy numbers they put up in college, in that spread offense.

Falk may end up being another guy who's got to learn to play under center in the NFL.

Definitely! Falk will certainly experience the same growing pains as Jared Goff did his rookie year. Maybe even worst. At least Goff has a stronger arm than Falk’s, so Falk’s rookie season would be even more disastrous.

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

Sam Darnold - QB - Trojans

USC redshirt sophomore QB Sam Darnold believes the team and coaches need to call and run different plays.

"We just gotta run different plays, have different formations and motion some guys, get away from our tendencies a little bit," Darnold told reporters after the win over Oregon State. That beaver defense had strong words for Darnold, with cornerback Kyle White saying he didn't see anything special in Darnold and called him a "normal Pac-12" quarterback.
Source: Joey Kaufman on Twitter

Oct 9 - 11:44 AM

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

This selection right here is very disgusting in my eyes. There are quite a few players I’d rather draft with our #2 pick. Barkley is not as skilled as Fournette in terms of their ability to impact an offense. They need to stop that:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2737259-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-updated-projections

[NinerSickness]

This selection right here is very disgusting in my eyes. There are quite a few players I’d rather draft with our #2 pick. Barkley is not as skilled as Fournette in terms of their ability to impact an offense. They need to stop that:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2737259-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-updated-projections

Anyone except Rosen is unacceptable IMO. He's the only one who can make up for Lynch f***ing up the 2017 draft.

[RedneckNiner]

Barkley will be a great running back in the NFL.. However in my mind and I might be alone on this board in this. And I will say this with the caveat that to me they are very close to the point of almost being a coin flip I prefer Mayfield over Rosen. I don't think you can go wrong either way but to my eye Mayfield is just a hairs breadth better. I'd rate them Mayfield, Rosen Darnold Allen at this point in the college season.. Although Jackson and Mason Rudolph though definately not first round worthy to me both are interesting should they fall to the back of the second round or later.

[RedneckNiner]

As for the 2017 draft Thomas I like mostly because of the extra picks, Reuben Foster I love the pick he will be a perennial all pro and go down as the steal of the draft. Beathard... I wasnt thrilled with, I would have grabbed Elf over Witherspoon, Kittle I liked Joe Williams meh...

[Ray_Dogg]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/10/2018-nfl-draft-deshaun-watson-alex-smith-spread-quarterbacks?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social#2018-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-qb-rankings-stock-watch

Finley putting himself on the radar.

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

Saquon Barkley - RB - Nittany Lions

ESPN's Todd McShay believes Penn State junior RB Saquon Barkley is a better college player than Todd Gurley, Ezekiel Elliott and Leonard Fournette were.

"[H]e'll get an elite grade from me, probably a notch below Adrian Peterson," McShay wrote. "He can really do it all as a player, and the only obvious area of concern is durability, as he's already been nicked up this season again." McShay's colleague Mel Kiper still believes it's a mistake to take any RB in the first round. That said, he's exceedingly high on Barkley as well, ranking him up with Gurley and Elliott. "I think he'll run under a 4.4 40-yard dash," he wrote. "He plays hard, he's tough, and I think there will be a case for him being the best overall prospect in the draft come next spring."
Source: ESPN

Oct 11 - 12:30 PM

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

Mason Rudolph - QB - Cowboys

ESPN's Mel Kiper and Todd McShay both predict that Oklahoma State senior QB Mason Rudolph will ultimately go in the late first or early second round.

Kiper doesn't believe Rudolph has a big arm, and he doesn't think Rudolph is a threat outside of the pocket, but he really likes Rudolph's consistency. "He has the size (6-foot-5, 230 pounds) that teams covet, and I love that he's not afraid to take shots down the field," he wrote. Kiper ranks Rudolph right around where he has Louisville's Lamar Jackson. McShay ranks Rudolph as the No. 4 QB. "The pre-draft process -- combine, pro day and Senior Bowl, if he plays -- will be important in getting a closer look at him," he wrote. Rudolph is 117-of-173 passing (67.6 percent) for 1,909 yards and a 16/4 TD/INT rate on the year. He also has five rushing touchdowns and a 88.0 Total QBR (No. 2 in FBS).
Source: ESPN

Oct 11 - 2:39 PM

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

Sam Darnold - QB - Trojans

ESPN's Todd McShay isn't concerned with USC redshirt sophomore QB Sam Darnold's nine interceptions.

"Several were well-thrown balls that simply bounced off his receivers' hands," he wrote. "I still have questions about his mechanics and his three-quarter launch spot, but his accuracy has been tremendous from what I've seen on tape." On the year, Darnold is 136-of-210 passing (64.8 percent) for 1,705 yards with a 12/9 TD/INT rate and three rushing touchdowns. McShay's colleague Mel Kiper wrote that while Darnold's "mechanics get a little sloppy at times", he believes the high interception total is "misleading." Kiper criticized the USC offensive line as "subpar." Both Kiper and McShay continue to rank Darnold as the No. 1 overall prospect in the upcoming draft class.
Source: ESPN

Oct 11 - 3:02 PM

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

Josh Rosen - QB - Bruins

ESPN's Mel Kiper writes that the gap between UCLA junior QB Josh Rosen and USC redshirt sophomore QB Sam Darnold has closed on his Big Board.

"It's close," he wrote. "I think you're going to see some teams that like Rosen over Darnold next year." Rosen is 159-of-245 passing (64.9 percent) on the year for an FBS-leading 2,135 yards and a 17/5 TD/INT rate. Kiper's colleague Todd McShay praised Rosen's "huge arm" while noting that he's increased Rosen's draft grade slightly based on his performance this fall. "I have been impressed by Rosen's improved accuracy, especially since he's averaging 49 passing attempts per game," McShay wrote.
Source: ESPN

Oct 11 - 1:20 PM

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

We may not talk about him, but he’s well known in the scouting community. They seem to like him a lot.

Damien Harris - RB - Crimson Tide

NFLDraftScout's Dane Brugler believes Alabama junior RB Damien Harris deserves more love.

Brugler notes in three SEC games this season Harris is averaging 10.4 yards per carry, along with three touchdowns. We all know Bo Scarbrough's name and monstrous frame, but Harris offers real big play upside. In those three games Harris has long runs of 46, 61 and 75 yards.
Source: Dane Brugler on Twitter

Oct 11 - 10:30 AM

[ChrisPozz]

We definitely should have taken Witherspoon. We just need to give him a chance.

Dude's soft. Elfein is already one of the best OL on the Vikings.

Just for conversation sake. How many Vikings games have you seen? How many parts of how many maybe? How much of that opinion is based on what you've seen or read?

Obviously we all have our own eye test and sometimes are more (or less) encouraged about things we see than others are with players based on different things we see and things we may tend to favor in players. In others words, I might like a player more than someone else because of how he moves, how he might use length, size, strength at different times, or what he does in different parts of the run/pass game projected into what one wants to see a player and team do.

Indulge me for a moment to add to that, however. To reiterate my stance on various websites. I never try to make one site or person be the end all, be all guide to judging a player. I, more than maybe anybody else I personally know, tend to go off of what I see myself than any other source so obviously that's fine if another person does the same and maybe that's what you're doing here. So I am not saying one shouldn't or can't go off their own eye and why they might do so (based on what I said in the above paragraph) and want to leave grading sites and advanced metrics in the dust. That's fine.

Normally I see every part of every Vikings game given my location but this year it's a little different because I'm becoming more and more immersed into the scouting world as time goes on, as some might already know, and the time it takes to do that in order to do oneself justice. With that said, I still have seen a fair share of every Vikings game so far this year and I haven't gotten the same takeaway on Elflein as you for some reason? This intrigues me like a lot of things do. I love going back and forth with people about players because it's what I do and it's why I'm taking such a deep dive on this. Maybe you don't want to even get into it.

Anyway, I haven't been overly impressed with any Vikings OL this year from what I've seen (not that it's a 100% fair evaluation of everyone) and have seen many of them struggle individually and collectively struggle so far this year.

Disclaimer: Of all 5 starters on the Vikings, I was never particularly enamored with any of them coming into or during their NFL careers so it's completely possible that's why none of them have rubbed me the right way or really stood out to me like someone else who might still have a twinkle in their eye. Again, that's kind of the evaluation/scouting side that can change from person to person. We don't have to agree. I often don't agree with many people on many players. I'm just more curious how much you're seeing and the types of things that are encouraging you about him when I'm not seeing it from my small view.

Since I don't believe I'm a complete jerk - some might disagree with that - I still love to do a ton of reading and always like to back up what I think with other sources and see if they match or don't match.

Pro Football Focus' rankings for Vikings OL

LT Riley Reiff (28th out of 69 tackles)
LG Nick Easton (58th out of 74 guards)
C Pat Elfein (26th out of 34 centers)
RG Joe Berger (26th out of 74 guards)
RT Mike Remmers (26th out of 69 tackles)

Elfein is the Vikings' 4th best OL this year, according to PFF.

Note: I am not in love with the way PFF grades and stacks players because many times the difference between 15 and 30 is not that much on their scale(s) and in many ways one can argue they grade players somewhat goofy, though as outsiders we all are kind of limited.

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Football Outsiders does some of their breakdowns differently but when running to either of Elfein's side, they rank 22nd and 23rd. Since it's so early in the year, I can't find any of their pass blocking advanced numbers yet. Again, nothing I'm seeing is overly impressive from a numbers standpoint.

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I know I'm pretty deep on this, and like I said maybe you don't even want to take the time to indulge me on this. It could just be something like I said where you like what you see from a make up, size, weight, speed, strength, functional movements, etc., standpoint. That's fine. If that's what what you're using and it's more of an eye test to you with that, that's fine. I'm just pushing back because I haven't been overly impressed with a single Vikings OL this year and I can't find anything, at least from a numbers standpoint, that pushes back against me on that. Maybe it's something else like I've been saying.

[NinerSickness]

We definitely should have taken Witherspoon. We just need to give him a chance.

Dude's soft. Elfein is already one of the best OL on the Vikings.

Just for conversation sake. How many Vikings games have you seen? How many parts of how many maybe? How much of that opinion is based on what you've seen or read?

In all honestly, not a bunch. So I may be jumping the gun by calling him one of their best OL. He looks pretty good to me...

But even if PFF is right, 26th out of 34 centers for a rookie is a pretty great start for a guy who's played 5 games IMO.

Witherspoon seems soft. It's just a first impression, but I'm not exactly going out to buy his jersey yet.

[ChrisPozz]

Dude's soft. Elfein is already one of the best OL on the Vikings.

Just for conversation sake. How many Vikings games have you seen? How many parts of how many maybe? How much of that opinion is based on what you've seen or read?

In all honestly, not a bunch. So I may be jumping the gun by calling him one of their best OL. He looks pretty good to me...

But even if PFF is right, 26th out of 34 centers for a rookie is a pretty great start for a guy who's played 5 games IMO.

Witherspoon seems soft. It's just a first impression, but I'm not exactly going out to buy his jersey yet.

Thanks for the response.

Personally, not making it a Elfein vs. Witherspoon thing myself at this point. I liked Witherspoon the prospect - lower than the 49ers did - but what I've seen from him already is a bit concerning and would have hoped he'd have put things together a little bit better so far.

[ChrisPozz]

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