How patient will Kyle be?

[Bald Bull]

Where was this optimism in previous seasons???

"why are you judging circumstances on a case by case basis" - I_am_1z

[Pattersonca65]

Taylor is gonna be good—IF we can find a QB—I'll give you that. Garcon isn't really a rebuild kind of player because of Grandfather Time—he's going to steadily decline based on norms. Hyde the kids, Hyde the wife is our best skill player, also the player that was rumored to be moved in the offseason. Trent Brown and Joe Staley are our two best guys overall. Okay, you say we did a roster overhaul, but we were the 2nd WORST team last year. If we're moving in the wrong direction when starting at 2nd WORST, it's possibly not a good sign.

The roster overhaul is not over. They weren't going to turn over the entire roster in one year. There will still be changes. This was not a year one project.

Where was this optimism in previous seasons???

Previous seasons? What do you mean? There was optimism by fans simply because with Baalke being gone there was a chance for this team to get better. It was clear last year this team wasn't going anywhere with Baalke as GM.

[I_am_1z]

The roster overhaul is not over. They weren't going to turn over the entire roster in one year. There will still be changes. This was not a year one project.

Where was this optimism in previous seasons???

Previous seasons? What do you mean? There was optimism by fans simply because with Baalke being gone there was a chance for this team to get better. It was clear last year this team wasn't going anywhere with Baalke as GM.

Still salty about the Jim Tom season. No reason for panic, yet the fanbase basically forced decisions that shouldn't have been made. We also had plenty of cap space back then and players who wanted to play for the HC.

[Pattersonca65]

Where was this optimism in previous seasons???

Previous seasons? What do you mean? There was optimism by fans simply because with Baalke being gone there was a chance for this team to get better. It was clear last year this team wasn't going anywhere with Baalke as GM.

Still salty about the Jim Tom season. No reason for panic, yet the fanbase basically forced decisions that shouldn't have been made. We also had plenty of cap space back then and players who wanted to play for the HC.

Tomsula was in way over his head and should never been hired in the first place. Whoever chose Tomsula over Gase should have been fired on ths spot. That team was going nowhere. Tomsula was unable to bring in capable coordinators which he absolutely had to have as Tomsula has zero NFL coordinator experience. Mangini and Crist were awful. Not all their fault but we can look back now and see that there needed to be a house cleaning that should have included Baalke being shown the door.

[ChrisPozz]

It's interesting to see how defensive fans have been when it comes to questioning the offense. An offense in which the worst players are Shanny's and Lynch's.

Not defensive, maybe feeling argumentative.

Who are the worst players on offense? I think Taylor and kittle have shown potential. Garcon is far from the worst player on offense. Goodwin has been inconsistent, but has been good for some big plays and may have had more if Hoyer was more accurate. Aldrick Robinson is the only player I feel kinda down on.

But almost the entire offense is made up of new players so saying "the worst were added by shanahan and lynch" is kind of pointless.

btw, it's been ONE offseason for a rebuilding team with almost a complete roster overhaul.

Trent Brown and Laken Tomlinson I've liked for a while but said at different points early on that I don't love in a Shanahan and company system. I'd like to see them kept but I don't have high hopes of them excelling big time in a Shanahan system either. Every other OL I want to see off this roster other than maybe Staley. There's the age thing and eventually he's going to hit that cliff but if the coaches want to argue for him for some structure I'm perfectly fine for that because fans tend to overlook that type of stuff. If they decide to get rid of him just to go with a youth movement and get guys snaps, ok, but one could do far worse for a LT, especially if they have ideas of going with a rookie/young guy in there down the road (and bypass Cousins).

The only TE on the roster I like even a little bit is Celek and I don't want him as a starter. If you're telling me Paulsen should be there because he knows Shanahan's system and that's underrated to the coaches, fine, I'll give them that. But I know I could close my eyes and throw darts and hit tons of guys I like more than him.

Carlos Hyde to me is a keeper but as I've said before I don't love him at this lighter weight and playing style. I ALWAYS hate telling a guy to put weight back on, especially when they say they feel so good now, but I just liked him more last year. And part of that was I liked him in some of his older systems he was in before this one, too. To me Carlos would be biggest piece of the pie if I was in control of the offense (and it would change under me).

Jus is one of my guys. Keep, almost regardless of who the coach is. Almost.

Hoyer I'm not as down on as many are. One could do far worse for a placeholder than him and much of the bad of what I see I'll live with with the lens on that he is who he is and he's basically shown me who he is and I'll live with it just because I pretty much know what I'm going to get from him. Give me some names and I can tell people if I'd rather go in that direction but Hoyer has been one of my top placeholders for a while. Beathard I'd have dumped yesterday if I could have. Ugh, that one ticked me off.

Garcon I've always loved. Keep. Don't LOVE him at his current price but it's not terrible and you weren't going to get him on the market for much lower than that. Ultimately I don't love him as a 1, but I'm good with him for the foreseeable future.

Goodwin I love as a dude and person but I don't love him as a player getting as much run as he's gotten and obviously he's a bit of a flawed player that can be wildly maddening and sometimes exciting. I could do better in my eyes. It would depend on how big of a role he has whether or not I say keep or go.

Taylor I never liked. It made sense to me with Shanahan but I thought they could do better for that role. It makes perfect sense what he wants, though. I was fine they kept Bourne but again there's a bunch of guys I'd personally rather spend my time on.

Aldrick Robinson is like Paulsen. I probably like him as a player more than Paulsen and could have a bit more use for him but again, I could find someone similar who I like better if I had to. If you're telling me he has to be kept because he's a Shanahan guy and he makes his system go more so than one of my guys, fine. I'll live with him.

Mostly for me this offense is about the offensive line. I hate it. I can't stand it. Collectively it's one of my least favorite units in the entire league and it's holding the offense back to a large degree. Obviously obtaining consistent/good/elite QB play will do more for it than anything else but to me it needs the most work of anything on the team just because of how bad I hate it. The fact they are running the system they are running is another part I don't love but I can't change that because Shanahan is not going anywhere and his system is not going to change very much.

[ChrisPozz]

Continued:

Breida I could see why they kept him for the Shanny system but I don't like/love him and probably would go another direction for the future, especially as a 2. Could they do worse? Yes. I'm not completely down on him just because I kind of get it from the Shanahan lens. Similar with Mostert. Could they have a worse number 3 guy? Yeah, but there's a whole bunch of other guys I'd like. I wasn't completely down on Mostert as a prospect either. I said at the time he's somebody you want to root for, but there's several limitations there with him that I know I could do better.

I think that covered the offense. Did I say I hate this OL?

[ChrisPozz]

Oh yeah. The IR offensive guys. Burbridge never had feelings for. Dump as immediately as possible the minute he's healthy.

Garnett was someone I could see being decently successful if he hits his ceiling but I didn't love the 49ers being the ones to take him on, especially that high, and I don't see it changing with Shanahan. I wouldn't be heartbroken at all if he's gone with the overhaul. (As a person I can root for him, though).

Joe Williams don't like/love. I'd replace him asap. The best I said I could say about him is he's better than many of the mid-late round/UDFA/FA signings the 49ers have rolled with in the past but I didn't like the pick and don't like him much as a back. And I take my backs more seriously than any other position on the roster other than QB. I have a specific set of skills that I like for each spot and I tend to not bend much on that if I'm saying I'm the one who could run the show. I'm pretty arrogant when it comes to that position and feel like I'm better than most guys similar to me when evaluating that position. I'll go to bat for and against players at that position in a way that is more forceful than most, if not any other position (other than QB). Which explains why I've been so vocal about Carlos Hyde in the past, if you didn't know.

[Bald Bull]

I agree with much of what you said chris. I like Kittle and Taylor more than you seem to, as far as I can tell they're getting open, unless their hands are garbage I'm fine with them for now. Kerley was more polished at this point, but I'm not down on Taylor yet.

What's your opinion on Victor Boldin? I like how he's looked as a returner. I'm curious to see what he'd do on the field, he looks really smooth to me, makes decisive cuts. I admit i've seen a small sample though.

I agree there are players we could do better than, but for one off-season I can live with it.

[ChrisPozz]

I agree with much of what you said chris. I like Kittle and Taylor more than you seem to, as far as I can tell they're getting open, unless their hands are garbage I'm fine with them for now. Kerley was more polished at this point, but I'm not down on Taylor yet.

What's your opinion on Victor Boldin? I like how he's looked as a returner. I'm curious to see what he'd do on the field, he looks really smooth to me, makes decisive cuts. I admit i've seen a small sample though.

I agree there are players we could do better than, but for one off-season I can live with it.

I didn't have him as a draftable prospect for the 49ers specifically and there were several other receivers I was calling for ahead of him after the draft.

I didn't love him from a body/physical standpoint. I didn't particularly care for his route running and looked like the type that was a gifted athlete trying to play receiver.

His straight line ability I thought might help him more than anything but his overall movements - his start and stop footwork looked a bit awkward to me, setting up DBs in his transitions wasn't good, and I didn't love him trying to muscle anybody for extra yards.

He won his share of close/50-50 balls in college for a guy that size but I doubted whether he'd be nearly that successful in the NFL.

Now, back to those movement skills. He still has an odd set of movement skills/technique to me but they worked for him periodically in college, largely due to the straight line ability, and one will probably argue they could work for him in the NFL if you can take a kick and a punt back for touchdown in the NFL.

I always have a hard time putting too much stock in of what I see on special teams in the preseason, but sure, many will argue his STs success still and what he showed there. To be fair, it wasn't like he was a bum on STs in college either so I have to give him that.

I wasn't completely against giving him a roster spot. There's a little something there and I don't think he's a complete waste of time. If you aren't the type to completely disregard STs in the preseason, you might be able to make a case he earned that roster spot in the preseason.

He just wasn't the type of package I'd have wanted to work with or put my name on as a scout/coach/personnel type going in and coming out of that draft if you tell me I have limited spots to fill. Has he grown on me since he became a Niner? Probably a little bit. I'd like to see more at this point if it's warranted but if forced to give an outlook on him, I'd probably go right back to my pre-draft evaluation and stick to that. I've been wrong plenty of times before with those, though.

[MHSL82]

I want to lose every game by three points and I want to be that close because of coaching and young talent who is not experienced enough yet. I think that would be the fastest way to winning. Depending on the prospects, drafting a quarterback would be the best long-term. So if we can be competitive, progress, draft someone who has potential to be better than Cousins to a rookie contract, etc. and we can coach, we could take off. The rest of the division looks to be going in the right direction for us to later lead the pack.

[I_am_1z]

Nice loss Sunday boys. Let's continue that 0-fer in the W column. Shanny is really creme of the crop when it comes to tanking

[wco81]

So they're paying a high price for Jimmy G.

Guess 0-8 may sap Kyle and Lynch's patience.

Or maybe Jed is putting pressure on them.

[Pattersonca65]

So they're paying a high price for Jimmy G.

Guess 0-8 may sap Kyle and Lynch's patience.

Or maybe Jed is putting pressure on them.

I don't think so. I don't think a 2nd is a high price. This really didn't just happen. According to reports this morning, The 49ers tried to acquire Jimmy G in the offseason but the Pats wanted more than the 49ers were willing to give. The Pats came down because Jimmy G was going to walk at year end. He wants to play and not sit for the Pats

[wco81]

You can see Kyle and Lynch relishing these wins, draft position be damned.

If they beat the Rams and end the season on a great run, winning the last 6 of 7 games with victories over 2 or 3 playoffs teams, their expectations for next season will be much higher than it was just two months ago.

They night be more inclined to make more waves in free agency than they'd planned to, in order to shore up the many position groups which need to vie improved.

[wco81]

It's early in season 2 but a lot of the same weaknesses that they inherited are still there, no outside pass rush, lack of #1 WR.

They had a lot of cap space they inherited, decided to let Hyde walk and they signed Sherman, coming off a serious injury.

They didn't try to trade for Gordon, who may or may not have addressed a big need.

The next off season and season 3 is really going to determine their trajectory, half way through their contracts.

Yeah they haven't taken big risks with the cap space (unless Jimmy G really underperforms).

But the passivity is too much like Baalke, expecting everything to turn out through the draft.

Their draft picks, especially at the top, are looking shaky. Too early to determine what kind of careers these players will have but they could use an immediate hit on their top pick, not the wait it out and see if they live up to their pick -- Solomon Thomas.

[CalamityX12]

Didn't sign Allen Robinson
Didn't pursue to draft Barkley or Nelson
Didn't draft high grade pass rusher
Didn't attempt to sign FA pass rushers of higher tier
Didn't make a hard play for Mack
Didn't buy into Gordon

[wco81]

Well now with Jimmy apparently done for the season they may get another reprieve for another year.

[Jikkle]

The approach they are taking is fine. This was a major rebuilding project and it wasn't something that was going to be done in a couple of years. I don't believe in pushing your chips to the center of the table when it comes to free agency until your Super Bowl window is closer to being open.

What can be questioned is who they've drafted and if we have the right coaches in place.

[wco81]

Not that money is a problem but Jimmy will be half way done through his contract by then.

[I_am_1z]

Will Shanny win another game this year?

Winless without Jimmer Grapps