AND WITH THE SECOND PICK OF THE 2019 NFL DRAFT

[CrimsonCrew]

I like Ferguson, and there aren't a ton of prospects in this draft I like that much, but I'd be hesitant to spend a 2nd rounder on him, much less a 1st. Especially with the between-the-ears questions about him.

Following his pro day, there is absolutely no chance he goes in the first. MAYBE he goes in the second, but I think he even falls out of that round. It's a deep draft at DE, and the weight gain and athletic numbers are huge red flags.

[NinerSickness]

Sick, the team doesn't have to have pro bowl talent at every position to compete for the playoffs, or even the SB. No team in the NFL today is complete.

I agree with that. But I think the team is at least going to need 4 or 5 decent-to-good starters to go from a 4-win team to a SB contender. Like I said, the additions they've already made + the draft might get 'em to 8, 9 or even 10 wins. But there's a huge gap between borderline playoff teams and SB contenders (ask the Bengals about that).

[CrimsonCrew]

Sick, the team doesn't have to have pro bowl talent at every position to compete for the playoffs, or even the SB. No team in the NFL today is complete.

I agree with that. But I think the team is at least going to need 4 or 5 decent-to-good starters to go from a 4-win team to a SB contender. Like I said, the additions they've already made + the draft might get 'em to 8, 9 or even 10 wins. But there's a huge gap between borderline playoff teams and SB contenders (ask the Bengals about that).

I think they're an eight-win team today barring a remarkable rash of injuries. I don't disagree that there's a big gap between borderline playoff teams and a SB contender, but there's always a team or two that surprises. Look at Philly in 2017, pr us in 2011. Teams can make unexpected jumps. I'm not saying we will. Obviously I think our situation in the backfield is a huge problem. But we shouldn't just be writing the season off at this point. We have enough talent to compete, especially given our offensive coaching and playcalling (though we need redzone improvement rather desperately).

[NinerSickness]

I think they're an eight-win team today barring a remarkable rash of injuries. I don't disagree that there's a big gap between borderline playoff teams and a SB contender, but there's always a team or two that surprises. Look at Philly in 2017, pr us in 2011. Teams can make unexpected jumps. I'm not saying we will. Obviously I think our situation in the backfield is a huge problem. But we shouldn't just be writing the season off at this point. We have enough talent to compete, especially given our offensive coaching and playcalling (though we need redzone improvement rather desperately).

You're right that teams can go from worst to first, but I'm being realistic. That's like saying you can get a HOF QB in the 6th round because of Tom Brady. Or an undrafted one because of Kurt Warner.

It's theoretically possible to fill all the team's needs this offseason, but I don't think that's realistic. Lynch would have to prove me wrong and bat 1.000 in FA and the draft IMO. Look at the 1998 49ers. They had a SB contender, but losing Hearst, Rice & BY killed their chances. And look how significantly one bad starting CB can kill your SB chances (see Tyrone Drakeford in 1996 and the 2 losses to Carolina to lose the division).

The difference between a good team and a SB team is sometimes just 1 or 2 bad starters. The Niners have several bad starters.

[CrimsonCrew]

I think they're an eight-win team today barring a remarkable rash of injuries. I don't disagree that there's a big gap between borderline playoff teams and a SB contender, but there's always a team or two that surprises. Look at Philly in 2017, pr us in 2011. Teams can make unexpected jumps. I'm not saying we will. Obviously I think our situation in the backfield is a huge problem. But we shouldn't just be writing the season off at this point. We have enough talent to compete, especially given our offensive coaching and playcalling (though we need redzone improvement rather desperately).

You're right that teams can go from worst to first, but I'm being realistic. That's like saying you can get a HOF QB in the 6th round because of Tom Brady. Or an undrafted one because of Kurt Warner.

It's theoretically possible to fill all the team's needs this offseason, but I don't think that's realistic. Lynch would have to prove me wrong and bat 1.000 in FA and the draft IMO. Look at the 1998 49ers. They had a SB contender, but losing Hearst, Rice & BY killed their chances. And look how significantly one bad starting CB can kill your SB chances (see Tyrone Drakeford in 1996 and the 2 losses to Carolina to lose the division).

The difference between a good team and a SB team is sometimes just 1 or 2 bad starters. The Niners have several bad starters.

It's not as unlikely as Brady in the 6th or Warner. Look, I'm not putting any money on it. But so much in the NFL hinges on QB play and injuries. If other teams suffer some significant injuries, and if Garoppolo returns to and elevates his 2017 play, this team could be right in the thick of things. We are going to have holes, but holes at SAM and RG aren't a huge issue. If Verrett goes down, which he almost certainly will, we're in some trouble at CB unless the youngsters make a big jump. Same thing with Ward at FS. And if they both go down, it gets ugly fast. But we'd basically be back where we thought we were at this time last year, and people felt pretty good about Witherspoon and Colbert then. Again, it's very unlikely, but improvement isn't linear, and players make jumps. Maybe Moore spends the offseason refining his technique and comes back able to put all that physical talent to use. And adding a single player can make a huge difference to a defense (see: Smith, Aldon). There's no sense in giving up on the season now.

[wco81]

Maybe one argument for drafting Q. Williams would be that they wouldn't be held over a barrel when Buckner is due for an extension.

If Buckner puts together a couple of double-digit sack seasons, he's going to want a $40-50 million guaranteed money deal at a minimum.

That would probably mean $70-80 million total contract value or a lot more.

[Jikkle]

Maybe one argument for drafting Q. Williams would be that they wouldn't be held over a barrel when Buckner is due for an extension.

If Buckner puts together a couple of double-digit sack seasons, he's going to want a $40-50 million guaranteed money deal at a minimum.

That would probably mean $70-80 million total contract value or a lot more.

You'd still pay Buckner even with Williams but when Williams is due his payday Buckner might become expendable but that's still a ways off to cross that bridge.

[Jikkle]

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[Ray_Dogg]

Buckner gets a new deal next year imo. We have $37M in cap space right now with $10M or so needed for the draft class. We will be rolling over the rest to next year. He gets his $40-50M front loaded deal and his gtd money will be long gone by the time Q’s rookie contract is over.

[Jikkle]

Initially, I leaned on Bosa being the pick but the more info I dig into Williams the more my gut tells me that's who the 9ers will pick.
He just strikes me as the type that's Lynch's dream prospect.

I'd say Bosa is still very much in play and would not surprise me at all since his position is a bigger need and one with a higher value but I just see Lynch seeing Williams as the kind of guy they wanted Solomon Thomas to be.

[CrimsonCrew]

It's a tough call. Bosa probably has the higher floor and could very well make an impact earlier, but his ceiling is almost certainly lower. I would be happy with either guy, or potentially with a trade down depending upon the compensation.

[Jikkle]

It's a tough call. Bosa probably has the higher floor and could very well make an impact earlier, but his ceiling is almost certainly lower. I would be happy with either guy, or potentially with a trade down depending upon the compensation.

At this point I'd say their floor is about the same as everything they've done in college projects in them doing well in the pros.

The debate and the one I'm almost certain the 9ers are having is Williams ceiling high enough over Bosa's that it justifies taking him over Bosa.

Because if the ceilings are about equal you take Bosa no questions asked. Higher positional value and bigger need.

For me I lean on Williams because I think you're looking at potentially special talent whereas with Bosa you're going to get pro bowl level of talent out him.

[ChrisPozz]

It's a tough call. Bosa probably has the higher floor and could very well make an impact earlier, but his ceiling is almost certainly lower. I would be happy with either guy, or potentially with a trade down depending upon the compensation.

This is very much IN PART what it boils down to for me in the end as well. One of the only reasons why Q. scares me is the fact he'd be inheriting Lynch, Shanahan, and for now, Saleh, and I think they could fudge/stunt with his ceiling/floor more than they might with Bosa. I get some of the Q. love. It's just a thing at play for me given the feelings I have for those guys.

If I could put the trust in myself to make these moves, or someone already in the league I actually trust, I'd be more open to supporting the idea of moving down if I was blown away/that person was blown away by an offer.

I worry too much about Lynch falling for Allen or someone else and have next to zero faith in them making a pick outside the top 2 in this one so that's why I haven't spent more words on the idea of moving back.

[CrimsonCrew]

It's a tough call. Bosa probably has the higher floor and could very well make an impact earlier, but his ceiling is almost certainly lower. I would be happy with either guy, or potentially with a trade down depending upon the compensation.

This is very much IN PART what it boils down to for me in the end as well. One of the only reasons why Q. scares me is the fact he'd be inheriting Lynch, Shanahan, and for now, Saleh, and I think they could fudge/stunt with his ceiling/floor more than they might with Bosa. I get some of the Q. love. It's just a thing at play for me given the feelings I have for those guys.

If I could put the trust in myself to make these moves, or someone already in the league I actually trust, I'd be more open to supporting the idea of moving down if I was blown away/that person was blown away by an offer.

I worry too much about Lynch falling for Allen or someone else and have next to zero faith in them making a pick outside the top 2 in this one so that's why I haven't spent more words on the idea of moving back.

I haven't heard much buzz connecting the Niners and Allen of late. But I share your concerns with Lynch making the right pick if we move back. If we did trade back, I'd just as soon make multiple trades and really rack up the picks. I don't see a huge difference between the guys projected to go fourth or fifth and guys going in the 20s this year.

Incidentally, speaking of Allen, for all the criticism of Bosa's arm length and lack of elite athleticism, Allen is extremely limited in one perhaps understated physical area: hand size. His hands are tiny, coming in at 8 3/4". That's a full two inches smaller than Bosa's. Hell, they're barely bigger than mine, and I'm 6'1" and horribly insecure about my short fingers. In seriousness, though, with hands that size, you have to wonder if Allen even can effectively use some of the fundamental pass rush moves.

[justme400e]

I'm really hoping that the Niners can do the right thing and pick Q, then a pass rusher. They would be able to compete with anyone then.

If they draft Q, I can see them move back up in the first to draft J. Ferguson.

I've seen Ferguson and Burns go in the second or third round in a couple of mocks. Either would be a significant upgrade from last season IMO. One of those guys opposite Ford with DeFo and Q inside would be devastating for anyone in a third and long situation.

[CrimsonCrew]

I'm really hoping that the Niners can do the right thing and pick Q, then a pass rusher. They would be able to compete with anyone then.

If they draft Q, I can see them move back up in the first to draft J. Ferguson.

I've seen Ferguson and Burns go in the second or third round in a couple of mocks. Either would be a significant upgrade from last season IMO. One of those guys opposite Ford with DeFo and Q inside would be devastating for anyone in a third and long situation.

Tough to see Burns getting out of the first after the combine he had. Weight up about 20 pounds and elite movement skills. If he was there in the second, I'd jump at the chance to take him. He could be a nice fit for the SLB-DE hybrid that we could use.

[justme400e]

If they draft Q, I can see them move back up in the first to draft J. Ferguson.

I've seen Ferguson and Burns go in the second or third round in a couple of mocks. Either would be a significant upgrade from last season IMO. One of those guys opposite Ford with DeFo and Q inside would be devastating for anyone in a third and long situation.

Tough to see Burns getting out of the first after the combine he had. Weight up about 20 pounds and elite movement skills. If he was there in the second, I'd jump at the chance to take him. He could be a nice fit for the SLB-DE hybrid that we could use.

You're absolutely right, my mistake on Burns but Ferguson and others should be there in the
second and third rounds.
Lynch might take a chance on getting back into the first like he did with Foster.

[CrimsonCrew]

https://football.realgm.com/wiretap/42112/49ers-Could-Have-Feeding-Frenzy-If-Kyler-Murray-Falls-To-No-2

I guess this begs the question of why the Cards wouldn't trade #1. Either way, #2 is looking like a solid place to be.

[justme400e]

https://football.realgm.com/wiretap/42112/49ers-Could-Have-Feeding-Frenzy-If-Kyler-Murray-Falls-To-No-2

I guess this begs the question of why the Cards wouldn't trade #1. Either way, #2 is looking like a solid place to be.

Murray dropping to #2 should save the team a year on the rebuild with the extra picks from the right desperate team. How about the Raiders three #1's for #2 overall? Or add next year's second if necessary. Murray is someone's golden ticket.

[Jikkle]

https://football.realgm.com/wiretap/42112/49ers-Could-Have-Feeding-Frenzy-If-Kyler-Murray-Falls-To-No-2

I guess this begs the question of why the Cards wouldn't trade #1. Either way, #2 is looking like a solid place to be.

Yea if the Cards aren't taking Murray I can't see them not trading the pick.

If I was the Cards I'd call the Raiders up and see what their offer is because even if you're sitting at number #4 all you would need is one team to jump up to 2 or 3 to take Haskins and then you're sitting on being able to take Bosa or Williams along with getting a draft haul.