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2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville

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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#821 » by Bald Bull » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:23 pm

UDFAs we are signing

DB Cameron Glenn, Wake Forest
Source: Wake Forest Recruiting

WR Malik Henry, West Georgia
Source: Matt Barrows of The Athletic

TE Tyree Mayfield, Wyoming
Source: Matt Barrows of The Athletic

LS Chris Wilkerson, Stephen F. Austin
Source: Aaron Wilson of the Houston Chronicle
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#822 » by Bald Bull » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:27 pm

*cough*
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like i said, Deebo was the best WR option, only AJ Brown was close. :naaa:
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#823 » by CrimsonCrew » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:41 pm

Draft is in the books. In some way I'm glad the Niners led off the fourth by taking a punter, because it allowed me to almost entirely detach and enjoy my son's first birthday party. After some shouting and cursing.

My thoughts on the draft:

Overall, I'm not happy with it. We entered this offseason as the worst coverage unit in the NFL, and it was not close:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-coverage-units-after-week-7

We started a slew of players in the defensive backfield, and the one commonality was that they were generally awful. This occurred as analytics keep indicating that coverage is the most important aspect of playing defense in today's NFL. In the offseason, we respond by...re-signing one of those coverage players who has 23 starts in the past three years because of repeated injuries, signing a player who has played in five games since 2015, and using our last pick in the draft on a player. That, despite a good crop of FA safeties, and although not top-heavy, a very deep class of safeties and CBs. In every round after the first, you could have made an argument that a DB was the top player available. Are you kidding me?

Lynch and Shanahan have repeatedly said that they prioritize pass rush over coverage. They have repeatedly stated that upgrading DE will cure our defense's woes. Every time they said it, I hoped they were just saying it and didn't really mean it. It is defensible to believe that a pass rush is more important than coverage - even though the stats suggest otherwise. It is not defensible to simply refuse to address the defensive backfield after a season like we had last year. They are putting a tremendous amount of faith in injured players and young players who haven't come close to meeting expectations. It is a level of arrogance that I find alarming as a fan. They are banking on being right on players like Witherspoon, Moore, Reed, and Colbert, even though those players were downright bad last year. Have they all shown flashes? Yes. Have they shown enough to be content with them and not add to the competition? Absolutely not.

As for the specific picks (these will get shorter the further we go):

2) DE Nick Bosa - I like the pick. I was torn on Bosa vs. Williams, and I do worry that Bosa doesn't have the upside of a Williams, but if he's healthy, he should be an impact player at a very important position. He certainly fills more of a need on our team, and gives us what should be one of the best DLs in the league. It also allows Thomas to focus almost entirely inside, which will hopefully allow him to excel. Great pick.

36) WR Deebo Samuel - I didn't like this move all that much. I like Samuel as a player, and I think he's very much the sort of WR Shanahan covets. But we got hung up on the player and lost perspective of the draft. First, all but three CBs were still on the board. We had our pick of the litter, and could have addressed an absolutely glaring need. Second, I think a better WR was available in AJ Brown. Third, if we did want Samuel specifically, we should have read the way the draft was falling and traded back. From all appearances, there was a trade to be had that would have netted a high-value pick in #77 (the pick was ultimately used by the Pats on Chase Winovich, who we could have put at SAM and rotated at DE). I will virtually guarantee that we could still have taken Samuel at 47, and if he had been gone, we could have had AJ Brown. That's why it's devastating to become fixated on a specific player.

It's arguably my biggest gripe with this FO. Once they decide someone is "their" guy, that's it. If it's the draft, they'll trade up or reach for him (see Beathard, Williams, Pettis, Hurd). If it's FA, they'll grossly overpay for him (see McKinnon, Juszczyk, Smith). It's a terrible waste of resources, and as we have fewer resources in terms of draft capital and cap space, it will have devastating consequences for our roster building.

67) WR Jalen Hurd - I don't like this pick at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm somewhat intrigued by the player, and would like having him on the team - if we had drafted him in the 6th round. In the third, it's just an absurd pick. Again, it's the FO getting fixated on a guy and deciding we have to have him no matter the cost. And in this case, we passed on a lot of good players at major need areas.

110) P Mitch Wishnowsky - I think this is the worst pick I've ever witnessed. Certainly the worst Niner pick. Thank God we traded back before we made it. There were multiple talented DBs on the board when we moved back. There were others there when we made this pick. And we take a punter? And a 27-year-old punter who kicked at altitude, to boot. Seriously? Wishnowsky will have to have the best average and net in the league by five yards to justify this pick.

148) LB Dre Greenlaw - I don't know a thing about Greenlaw, and as such, I don't have a strong opinion. That said, again, I question the position valuation. At this point, we are relatively deep at off-ball LB. And Blake Cashman was still available. From a position standpoint, if we wanted a LB, why not take De'Andre Walker to play SAM? Just a head-scratcher for me.

176) TE Kaden Smith - I don't have strong feelings about this one, either. In a vacuum, I don't have a problem with a player like this with this pick. But how are we still overlooking the defensive backfield?

183) OL Justin Skule - I had never even heard of this guy, so no strong feelings here, either. The position fills a need of sorts, as we appear to be putting a fair bit of stock in Shon Coleman to be the swing tackle and possibly Staley's replacement (with McGlinchey taking over at LT). I'm not sure Skule is the guy, but we'll see.

198) CB Tim Harris - Easily my favorite pick on day two. Maybe my favorite pick outside of Bosa. I don't know a ton about Harris, but he has the measurables and seems like he could really contribute if he doesn't get hung up by injuries. And we finally take a coverage player! Huzzah!

Part of my frustration with this draft stems from the fact that, going into the second round, I was actually thinking about this team competing next year. We had addressed the defensive front-seven. WRs were falling and we were likely to find talent in the third or fourth rounds. And we had an opportunity to virtually take our pick of the top coverage players in the draft to shore up the back end. Now we've got a great DL, what should be a fairly solid but not great offense (though this mostly depends on Garoppolo), but huge and enduring questions arguably the most important position group on defense. Because of the way we were drafting, particularly in the third and fourth rounds (a project and a specialist), my expectation is that we're going to be very competitive this year. If we're not - and particularly if we struggle against the pass again - I'm going to call for Lynch and Shanahan's heads next year. And I consider myself a very patient person in this area.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#824 » by CrimsonCrew » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:42 pm

Oh, and as for UDFA, we'd better be going hard after anyone who plays in the defensive backfield.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#825 » by Bald Bull » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:52 pm

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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#826 » by Hangman_52 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:20 am

I was so pissed off after the punter drafting that I got my AR and shot up a bunch of paper targets at the range. Feel so much better. Nothing like meditation while fire a gun to get you in a better frame of mind.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#827 » by NinerSickness » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:30 am

Hangman_52 wrote:I was so pissed off after the punter drafting that I got my AR and shot up a bunch of paper targets at the range. Feel so much better. Nothing like meditation while fire a gun to get you in a better frame of mind.


John Lynch wasn't standing behind any of those paper targets by any chance, was he?
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#828 » by ChrisPozz » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:00 am

So I had to jump onto a conference call at about the time Tommy Sweeney was taken by the BIlls in the 7th round.

The day ended even more poorly than I was hoping.

Cardinals had back-to-back picks at 248 and 249 and took two of my top remaining players:

Morgan State tackle Josh Morgan and then Temple DE Michael Dogbe.

Two excellent project players. Morgan I thought COULD go much earlier but there was a big character and maturity question mark surrounding him without a lot of clear answers about it so I'm HOPING that's the reason he was there because as a project player I was in love.

Dogbe is the type of player I want to see added for when this team moves on from Saleh. He would've been one of my holdover candidates and be a fit for what I want to run after Saleh is gone (soon??????).

------

Since 1998, I've never liked THIS many of the Patriots picks AND the value they got (not just the players themselves). Ken Webster in the 7th was excellent at that point I thought. He was my 2nd best remaining corner available.

Thank God the 49ers got Tim Harris to soften the blow a bit for me.

Joejuan Williams, Chase Winovich, and Webster were all really good picks IMO that were good to great value. Damien Harris was a guy I liked but wasn't quite as good of a value but should fit very well into their running game flow and be a real scary part-time piece for them. Cajuste I went back and forth on. Kind of high for me but I kind of get it and it wouldn't surprise me if they hit somewhat on that one.

That's 4 or 5 of their picks I can single out and have good to very good feelings about. I think since 1998 I've never liked more than 3 of their picks in a single draft.

This will be an amazing thing to follow for many years to see what it looks like with hindsight.

-------------

The Cardinals did it to me again with the final pick in the draft.

This was one of my least favorite TE classes since '98 but I had two guys sitting there for the longest time that I said I would consider late if they continued to fall. One was Kendall Blanton and the other was Caleb Wilson. Cardinals got Caleb Wilson.

And now guess what? Guess who signed Kendall Blanton as an UDFA? The freaking Rams. Wonderful.

------

That was a very sad ending to the day.

------

Well, if you're tired of my ranting and raving I'll be working on some post draft team specific write ups for a while and then a lonnnnnng two week vacation before I start working on 2020 and collecting what comes out with these guys and their camps.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#829 » by CrimsonCrew » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:26 pm

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/richard-shermans-health-might-have-played-role-49ers-draft-strategy

See, the thing is, you need to play two CBs. At least. Usually three. One reason Sherman didn't have INTs last year may have been because of the injury. Another is that our CB situation opposite him was so bad that teams didn't need to throw in his direction.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#830 » by I_am_1z » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:41 pm

After watching Greenlaw's highlights, I think all he needs to do is work on his lower body strength to become more explosive through his tackles. If he can do that we got ourselves a heck of a modern day LB
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#831 » by Jikkle » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:37 pm

I mentioned it in another thread but I wasn't too bothered by addressing the secondary.

We had 3 glaring holes on the team with edge rush, WR, and the secondary so realistically you just weren't going to be able to knock out all 3 of them in one offseason. We knocked 2 of them out (hopefully) so secondary will have to wait until 2020 when they can invest a 1st rounder into it.

They've put a lot of mid-round resources into the secondary the past two drafts and I just don't see pouring more 4th round talent kind of guys into a group loaded with that kind of talent is going to elevate the talent pool much. And because of all that resources they have poured into it's the one group that does have actual potential of guys rising up and solidifying starting gigs.

Hopefully a much better pass rush and a better WR corp will lead to more points which can put some deodorant on the secondary until they can get a 1st round stud to put there.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#832 » by I_am_1z » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:52 pm

Jikkle wrote:I mentioned it in another thread but I wasn't too bothered by addressing the secondary.

We had 3 glaring holes on the team with edge rush, WR, and the secondary so realistically you just weren't going to be able to knock out all 3 of them in one offseason. We knocked 2 of them out (hopefully) so secondary will have to wait until 2020 when they can invest a 1st rounder into it.

They've put a lot of mid-round resources into the secondary the past two drafts and I just don't see pouring more 4th round talent kind of guys into a group loaded with that kind of talent is going to elevate the talent pool much. And because of all that resources they have poured into it's the one group that does have actual potential of guys rising up and solidifying starting gigs.

Hopefully a much better pass rush and a better WR corp will lead to more points which can put some deodorant on the secondary until they can get a 1st round stud to put there.



The pass rush this year could be as effective as Von Miller and Ware. We've improved our pass defense tremendously this offseason. Goodwin is still not PROVEN in my eyes. He had an outlier year just like Torrey Smith (ravens) and fell back down to earth. Pettis nor James is proven. Taylor/Bourne is laughable to consider as a reason to not select a WR. How is it a surprise we selected two WRs is a pass friendly system? Deebo and Hurd are two guys we can target in the endzone. Remember how the redzone is an issue for this team. I don't understand the hate of these picks.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#833 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:37 am

Seriously ... Ford and Bosa plus health is all it will take to have me watching every minute this year.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#834 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:12 am

Jikkle wrote:I mentioned it in another thread but I wasn't too bothered by addressing the secondary.

We had 3 glaring holes on the team with edge rush, WR, and the secondary so realistically you just weren't going to be able to knock out all 3 of them in one offseason. We knocked 2 of them out (hopefully) so secondary will have to wait until 2020 when they can invest a 1st rounder into it.

They've put a lot of mid-round resources into the secondary the past two drafts and I just don't see pouring more 4th round talent kind of guys into a group loaded with that kind of talent is going to elevate the talent pool much. And because of all that resources they have poured into it's the one group that does have actual potential of guys rising up and solidifying starting gigs.

Hopefully a much better pass rush and a better WR corp will lead to more points which can put some deodorant on the secondary until they can get a 1st round stud to put there.


Why weren't we going to knock out all three in one offseason? Starters and even pro bowl or HOF players get picked in every round. Our top corner was drafted in the 5th round. Yes, it's unlikely we were going to be able to address all three positions with top-level starters in one offseason (though funneling money toward, say, FS instead of WLB might have been one way to go....). But that doesn't mean you don't try.

I love this from Joe Fann, echoing comments made by Lynch.

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Note: he ran out of space for DJ Reed and K'Waun Williams; just too many good names to get them all on there. Seriously, who are these guys? Every single one has issues. Richard Sherman is aging and still coming back from a major injury. He's still solid, but he's not the dominant guy he used to be. No one has seen Jason Verrett play a snap since week one of 2017. Even if he's healthy, a HUGE if, is he still the same player? Akhello Witherspoon and Tarvarius Moore have shown no signs of being reliable starters, much less impact players. K'Waun Williams is fine; his presence is not a reason not to try to upgrade the spot. And safety is even worse. Injury issues. Poor play. Jimmie Ward could be the best FS in the league, but I wouldn't know that because he's only played like one-and-a-half games there. But don't worry. If he does happen to get hurt, we've got Antone Exum to step in. How do these demanding fans expect a safety to make the roster when we've already got this much talent?!?!

This is a repeat of last year with DE. "Hey, we've got Cassius Marsh, Arik Armstead, and Solomon Thomas. You don't find rookies to just come in and beat out players of that caliber." Ummmm...yeah. Sure thing. So what do we do this year to address the problem? We trade a future second-round pick, shell out huge money to boot, and use the second pick in the draft. Easy-peasy.
"We'll address CB in the first round next year." Okay...what if next year is like this year, and there's no value at CB when we're picking? What if Staley retires and Shon Coleman - and just a warning, I'm gonna blow your mind here - isn't a starting-caliber OT? And remember, we don't have that second next year, so we've really only got one pick for a guy you would expect to start. Not to mention that our most common defensive package uses five defensive backs. Every one of those positions is a liability to one degree or another right now.

You use as many picks on an area of weakness as you can, within reason. And you always add talent. Guys get injured. Guys age faster than expected. Promising young players fail to develop. Are we likely to get a pro bowl CB with a fourth-round pick? No. Are we likely to get a starter? No. But we don't have any chance of finding quality players at the position if we don't add them.

These are PFF's best CBs last year:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-25-cornerbacks-in-the-nfl-in-2018

A lot of those guys were first round picks. Probably more than at any position except QB. But Desmond King was a fifth-round pick. Jason McCourty was a sixth. Bryce Callahan was undrafted. Casey Hayward went with one of the last picks of the second round. Pierre Desir was a fourth. AJ Bouye was undrafted. Trumaine Johnson was a third. Steven Nelson was a third. And, of course, Sherman was a fifth. The only way you can hit on those guys is if you throw some picks at the position. Maybe they don't pan out. If they're even a competent role player, they'll be more valuable than a punter.

And let's not pretend punters are even sure things. We spent a fifth on Pinion and he was bad.

Anyway, that's my rant. It is what it is. I'm expecting the team to actually be pretty good, assuming Garoppolo can actually stay healthy for a full season. And if Verrett and Ward can also stay healthy, we could be really good. But if we're not, I'll put substantial money on the problem area.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#835 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:14 am

I_am_1z wrote:
Jikkle wrote:I mentioned it in another thread but I wasn't too bothered by addressing the secondary.

We had 3 glaring holes on the team with edge rush, WR, and the secondary so realistically you just weren't going to be able to knock out all 3 of them in one offseason. We knocked 2 of them out (hopefully) so secondary will have to wait until 2020 when they can invest a 1st rounder into it.

They've put a lot of mid-round resources into the secondary the past two drafts and I just don't see pouring more 4th round talent kind of guys into a group loaded with that kind of talent is going to elevate the talent pool much. And because of all that resources they have poured into it's the one group that does have actual potential of guys rising up and solidifying starting gigs.

Hopefully a much better pass rush and a better WR corp will lead to more points which can put some deodorant on the secondary until they can get a 1st round stud to put there.



The pass rush this year could be as effective as Von Miller and Ware. We've improved our pass defense tremendously this offseason. Goodwin is still not PROVEN in my eyes. He had an outlier year just like Torrey Smith (ravens) and fell back down to earth. Pettis nor James is proven. Taylor/Bourne is laughable to consider as a reason to not select a WR. How is it a surprise we selected two WRs is a pass friendly system? Deebo and Hurd are two guys we can target in the endzone. Remember how the redzone is an issue for this team. I don't understand the hate of these picks.


Sure, we needed to address WR. But go through our DBs and tell me it's not a similar situation. We've got Richard Sherman, and after that, it's a lot of nobodies. I have a lot more faith in Pettis and Goodwin than I do Witherspoon and Ward.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#836 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:17 am

And it's a lot easier to find talent at WR in the later rounds than it is at CB. Not to mention it's much easier to scheme for WRs than it is to scheme to protect bad DBs.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#837 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:25 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:And it's a lot easier to find talent at WR in the later rounds than it is at CB. Not to mention it's much easier to scheme for WRs than it is to scheme to protect bad DBs.


It's pretty rare to find a #1 WR below the top 15 picks.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#838 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:19 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:And it's a lot easier to find talent at WR in the later rounds than it is at CB. Not to mention it's much easier to scheme for WRs than it is to scheme to protect bad DBs.


It's pretty rare to find a #1 WR below the top 15 picks.


That statement reflects exactly the sort of attitude to which I am objecting. According to your argument, which is basically a more extreme version of the one Jikkle is making about DBs, we shouldn't have wasted our second- and third-round picks on a WR, since they're unlikely to develop into elite players. Obviously that's silly. There have been lots of good WRs - even first-ballot HOF WRs - taken outside the first 15 picks. And you don't necessarily need elite players at every spot. You need guys who can hold down a spot and do it well, mixed in with some guys who are special at their position.

It's pretty unusual to find a pro bowl TE in the 5th. Really upset we just wasted the pick on that Kittle guy. What were we thinking? The reality is that all picks are a crap shoot, and the odds of finding good players decrease the further you go into a draft. Smart teams add lots of players and competition to the most important spots (QB, of course, but more cogent for this discussion are CB, DE, OT, WR, FS). That's how you find the values that are absolutely vital to enduring success in today's NFL. I haven't seen any indication to date that Lynch and Shanahan get that. As I said above, we have had a huge need a pass-rusher since they came in. For two years we basically just ignored the position. We took a few low-risk chances in FA, which is a strategy I agree with. But we did nothing in the draft (unless they considered Solomon Thomas an impact edge rusher; if they did, we're probably just sunk). So this year we threw a ton of resources to solve the long-standing position. And just to be clear, I don't disagree with those decisions (Ford trade and contract, Bosa pick). But you can't solve every position with that approach. I'm also not at all confident they would have solved the pass rush issue. Even if they had moved up for Harold Landry instead of Pettis last year, as I wanted, we would have still had a need at the position. But at least we'd have some players competing there.

Returning to your statement, who needs a #1 receiver anyway? Especially in Shanahan's system. Pierre Garcon put up elite numbers under Shanahan in Washington, but I wouldn't consider him a #1 receiver (granted he was a very good player throughout his career; he was also a sixth-round pick, incidentally). Of the top receivers in today's NFL, Tyreek Hill, Michael Thomas, Juju Smith-Schuster, Adam Thielen, Antonio Brown, Robert Woods, Keenan Allen, Kenny Golladay, Tyler Boyd, Stefon Diggs, Jarvis Landry, and Tyler Lockett were all taken outside the first round. All were top-20 in receiving yards this past season. Two of the best were undrafted. And to clarify, although I wasn't thrilled with Samuel at 36, that pick was almost certainly my second-favorite of this draft. My bigger issues were reaching for Hurd and drafting a punter instead of adding guys on the back end. Hurd in the fourth or fifth would have been great. A punter in the sixth would have been fine. Our FO is suggesting that they think our team is much better than it is. If everything goes off without a hitch, then we should be playoff competitors. But if we suffer one or two important injuries - and let's not even factor in QB here - we're hosed.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#839 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:48 pm

Kyle Shanahan:

You look at our secondary now and everything, and it's not the easiest thing in the world to go draft a guy who can just come in and beat out [CB] Richard Sherman, [CB] Jason Verrett, [CB] Ahkello [Witherspoon], [DB] Tarvarius Moore. Those aren't easy things.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. How hard is it really to beat out Witherspoon or Moore? Apparently not that hard, because Greg Mabin and Tyvis Powell did it for a few weeks last year. Players like Mabin and Powell getting snaps may happen in the NFL, but please don't act like this roster is so stacked that we shouldn't even bother adding competition.

And on the safety spot:

It's not the easiest to go find a safety who can beat out [DB] Jimmie Ward or [S Jaquiski] Tartt or the two guys that we drafted in the last two years with [S] Marcell [Harris], [DB Adrian] Colbert and [DB Antone] Exum [Jr.], who stepped in and did a good job for us, who's played on other NFL teams, too. That's not an easy thing to do.

Colbert beat out Ward LAST SEASON. He had been a seventh round pick the year before.

Just a reminder, this was Shanahan in 2018:

We’d love to get a [Denver Broncos OLB] Von Miller, but you only get eight up on game day and you only get nine on our roster. So, you just keep drafting rushers. You’ve got to be pretty good to beat out [DL Cassius] Marsh. You’ve got to be pretty good to beat out [DL Arik] Armstead. You don’t just get guys. If you get them, someone else has got to get cut and we’ve got a pretty good group.

We know how that turned out. Normally I would chalk comments like that up to things that are just said in the aftermath of a draft when we can't address all our holes. But actions speak louder than words. This FO appears to be showing us either that they overestimate the players on their roster - and pretty dramatically at that - or they have a positively perverse approach to roster building, i.e., ignore the position and then spend, spend, spend on it when things don't shake out they way they expected. At least we have a few young players at CB, but those players should be challenged.
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Re: 2019 NFL-Draft Thread, Days 1-3 From Nashville 

Post#840 » by Scoots1994 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:45 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:And it's a lot easier to find talent at WR in the later rounds than it is at CB. Not to mention it's much easier to scheme for WRs than it is to scheme to protect bad DBs.


It's pretty rare to find a #1 WR below the top 15 picks.


That statement reflects exactly the sort of attitude to which I am objecting. According to your argument, which is basically a more extreme version of the one Jikkle is making about DBs, we shouldn't have wasted our second- and third-round picks on a WR, since they're unlikely to develop into elite players. Obviously that's silly. There have been lots of good WRs - even first-ballot HOF WRs - taken outside the first 15 picks. And you don't necessarily need elite players at every spot. You need guys who can hold down a spot and do it well, mixed in with some guys who are special at their position.

It's pretty unusual to find a pro bowl TE in the 5th. Really upset we just wasted the pick on that Kittle guy. What were we thinking? The reality is that all picks are a crap shoot, and the odds of finding good players decrease the further you go into a draft. Smart teams add lots of players and competition to the most important spots (QB, of course, but more cogent for this discussion are CB, DE, OT, WR, FS). That's how you find the values that are absolutely vital to enduring success in today's NFL. I haven't seen any indication to date that Lynch and Shanahan get that. As I said above, we have had a huge need a pass-rusher since they came in. For two years we basically just ignored the position. We took a few low-risk chances in FA, which is a strategy I agree with. But we did nothing in the draft (unless they considered Solomon Thomas an impact edge rusher; if they did, we're probably just sunk). So this year we threw a ton of resources to solve the long-standing position. And just to be clear, I don't disagree with those decisions (Ford trade and contract, Bosa pick). But you can't solve every position with that approach. I'm also not at all confident they would have solved the pass rush issue. Even if they had moved up for Harold Landry instead of Pettis last year, as I wanted, we would have still had a need at the position. But at least we'd have some players competing there.

Returning to your statement, who needs a #1 receiver anyway? Especially in Shanahan's system. Pierre Garcon put up elite numbers under Shanahan in Washington, but I wouldn't consider him a #1 receiver (granted he was a very good player throughout his career; he was also a sixth-round pick, incidentally). Of the top receivers in today's NFL, Tyreek Hill, Michael Thomas, Juju Smith-Schuster, Adam Thielen, Antonio Brown, Robert Woods, Keenan Allen, Kenny Golladay, Tyler Boyd, Stefon Diggs, Jarvis Landry, and Tyler Lockett were all taken outside the first round. All were top-20 in receiving yards this past season. Two of the best were undrafted. And to clarify, although I wasn't thrilled with Samuel at 36, that pick was almost certainly my second-favorite of this draft. My bigger issues were reaching for Hurd and drafting a punter instead of adding guys on the back end. Hurd in the fourth or fifth would have been great. A punter in the sixth would have been fine. Our FO is suggesting that they think our team is much better than it is. If everything goes off without a hitch, then we should be playoff competitors. But if we suffer one or two important injuries - and let's not even factor in QB here - we're hosed.



Wow. I didn't make any of those arguments with my statement. The reality is that the vast majority of hall of fame WRs in the last 30 years have been taken at the very top of the draft.

I didn't say that's what the 49ers needed to do.

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