Scoots1994 wrote:CrimsonCrew wrote:clyde21 wrote:
lol
that's funny Sick, as a Muslim I've never seen child rape, rampant incest, female genital mutilation. beating wives or throwing people off roofs in my lifetime...
did I miss something? maybe you hang around more Muslims than I do?
Somehow I missed Sick's use of the word "magnanimous" to describe present-day Christianity. That is an incredibly interesting word to describe the Christian religion's approach to the world. Though I think it does likely perfectly capture Sick's view.
The definition: generous or forgiving, especially toward a rival or less powerful person.
Western, Christian people (but please don't call them white) effectively conquered the world, killing millions. They enslaved, raped, and murdered entire groups while seizing their territory. They took whatever they wanted, including stripping many places of natural resources. Much of that was explicitly done in the name of Christianity, including the virtual extermination of American Indians. I don't mean to single out Europeans criticism for that sort of behavior; it's been true of many other conquering groups (Egyptians, Mongols, Chinese, Muslims, Aztecs, Incas, Maori, Japanese, etc., etc., etc.), Europeans just became the best at it.
Having conquered the world over the course of 500-odd years, they divided it as they saw fit. In some cases - primarily those where the original inhabitants had immunity to Old World diseases and were eventually able to effectively resist them to some degree - they eventually gave up the less desirable areas, but they never fully gave up their influence, and never willingly.
Sure, in the last 70-odd years, you haven't seen wars in the name Christianity. But it's not like those Western countries - the US included - suddenly realized the error of their ways and the fundamental incompatibility with the religion to which they professed adherence. They fought proxy wars in third-world countries, using human beings like pawns on a chess board. They overthrew democratically elected governments if they didn't agree with their politics (or, perhaps more accurately, their likelihood to continue to support the commercial interests of the Western powers), often putting in place brutal dictators. When necessary, they went to war to assert or preserve their interests.
But those absolutely WERE NOT Christian wars. Sure, the governments of almost all of those countries were somewhere between 95-100% Christian, but that wasn't Christianity in action. That was politics. No, the Christians were only ever generous and forgiving toward their former subjects, who petulantly rejected the Christians' good will and continue to do so.
Perfect.
How about in the last 20 years? Why do we have to be responsible (and guilty) for what was done by previous generations? One can be educated about the past to keep it from repeating while also not suffering for what our forebears did.
My father's ancestors certainly included Spanish invaders who brutalized the south american natives just as they include those same natives, who themselves brutalized groups who were deemed as "less than". He managed to rise above that past to carve out a qualify life in the US where he met and married a woman with German/native american heritage and raise a family without oppressing people. And all this despite be raised a Christian.
How much has changed in the last 20 years? Just looking at the US, a Christian nation invaded a Muslim nation on invented charges within the last 20 years, throwing that entire region into absolute chaos (admittedly it was somewhat chaotic prior to that). I seem to recall the president at the time explicitly justifying it by calling it a Crusade. The US continues to effectively wage a proxy war in Yemen, funding attacks on what would likely be the prevailing government without Saudi and US interference. It's not the level of involvement we had during the Cold War or throughout the last 60-odd years in Central America, but it isn't a stark departure, either.
I don't think individuals should necessarily be held responsible (and guilty) for what was done by previous generations. The reality is that for the vast majority of human history, it's been a story of who could do what to whom. Strength was the only thing that mattered. But people should at least acknowledge what resulted in their positions of relative privilege, and it should impact their thinking in some way.
I find it more than a little rich that a beneficiary of past brutality - whether by one's ancestors or someone else's; and unless you're Native American and living in this country, that includes you - looks at the situation now and condemns previously (or currently) subjugated groups en masse for some lashing out. It's not magnanimous when a group devastates populations across the world, takes whatever they want, and then declares, "And now we shall have peace." Sure, at that point, peace benefits them at the expense of others. They aren't advocating peace because it's right or just, they're advocating peace because it's the easiest/cheapest way for them to hold onto their part of the pie.
And regardless of any of this, Islam is used now as Christianity was for centuries (and likely will be again) as an excuse for individuals and relatively small groups to obtain and retain power. Even in the case of a "Caliphate" like ISIS, it's not about the religion. It's about the path to power.
But I still want to overthrow the man! For the first time in a LONG time the under 35 year olds have the largest group of eligible voters thanks to the Boomers finally dying off.
