RealGM

It’s been tons of fun posting about the Niners with you guys for the last 20 years, but Dan Snyder caving like a bitch to the thought-Nazi mob is the last straw for me. The NFL doesn’t deserve my support or money any more.

When the 49ers flew the BLM flag (who are a bunch of lying f**ks), that almost did it for me. I’m sure some of you like your sports with a side of politics, but I don’t. Sports used to be the one place where EVERYONE could set aside their differences and enjoy some fun. Not any more. So f**k them.

I’m a 49ers crackhead, and you all know it, but it looks like I’m going to rehab.

I have zero emotional attachment to the name. I know natives who are fans of redskins, and i know natives who hate the name. That's for them to decide, not me, I want no say in how they should feel.

I feel the same way about statues, flags and other symbols people get emotional over. A person burning a flag, and a person saluting a flag both make me feel the same, I don't care either way. it's none of my business. A piece of metal shaped like someone never made my life any better or worse. I don't care.

You choose whether to not to get caught up in the politics.

When I see Jimmy hit Kittle for a 50 yard TD, I won't be thinking "it's not the same without the redskins"

NinerSickness wrote:It’s been tons of fun posting about the Niners with you guys for the last 20 years, but Dan Snyder caving like a bitch to the thought-Nazi mob is the last straw for me. The NFL doesn’t deserve my support or money any more.

When the 49ers flew the BLM flag (who are a bunch of lying f**ks), that almost did it for me. I’m sure some of you like your sports with a side of politics, but I don’t. Sports used to be the one place where EVERYONE could set aside their differences and enjoy some fun. Not any more. So f**k them.

I’m a 49ers crackhead, and you all know it, but it looks like I’m going to rehab.

You know the term "redskin" came from scalping American Indians/Native Americans/Indigenous Americans, right? And a colloquial term used for violence as far back as the 1620's? So if we had 400 years of using "NinerSickness" as a derogatory term that was also affiliated with making money by collecting bounties with scalps, you would still being the same thing?

Why do you consider people who say "Black Lives Matter" a bunch of lying f*cks? So people asking for equal civil rights ALMOST did it for you, but it was a name change of a team WHO YOU'RE NOT EVEN A FAN OF to distance yourself from supporting a sport that is predominantly played by "a bunch of lying f*cks?" FOH.

Yeah, I get it, sports are supposed to be a distraction, but when the leader of a country says, "when the looting starts, the shooting starts," threatening violence, people are going to speak up. Either pick up a sign and support your fellow US Americans is asking for equal civil rights, or put the white hood back over your head and march towards the nearest KKK affiliate by your place.

I'm making a generalization about you based on your comments like you are making a generalization about a group of people, as well. Fun, isn't it?

*Edit. I only reacted to this after it was a recent post when I logged in this morning.

BLM has had some serious issues with being consistent and honest. People who have left the leadership have spoken about it at length. Unfortunately organizations with one public supported agenda don't limit themselves to just that agenda (planned parenthood's founder wanted to use it to keep black population down ... and it's working, PETA's founder thinks all animals everywhere in the world should just be set free)

That said, I am a strong supporter of reducing the size and influence (and cost) of our police force and ending the drug war (which was founded for racist reasons), and fixing our prison systems, so I kind of support a lot of what BLM supports.

The Redskins name is straight up offensive and should have been changed a long time ago. In our capitalist democracy we vote with our money and the votes are in ... Snyder can change the name or get more money, it's his choice, he is choosing money. This is the way things are SUPPOSED to work in a free democratic capitalist country.

I too don't think sports and politics need to be as close as they are since it often seems to come off as pandering by the franchises, but to act like it's new is completely missing a lot of history. Sports figures and sports franchises acknowledging and talking about political issues is nothing new at all.

Odds on Sickness not commenting on here for an entire season?

+100000 odds says he does

Wrestling with whether or how to engage with this. But it's me, so I pretty much have to.

Re: the name Redskins, it is objectively offensive. It is a slur, and the name should have been changed a long time ago. And yes, I know that there is an argument that some native people's referred to themselves as "red men." I don't see how that changes the offensiveness of the word today. The n-word is a derivation of Negro, which just means black. Both have become offensive through their application and meaning in our nation's history (not equating the two, just drawing a parallel).

I don't personally have a problem with team names like the Indians, Braves, Chiefs, etc., though I understand that some people are offended by unrealistic and at times offensive depictions (e.g., Chief Wahoo). That becomes something of a slippery slope in my view, at least in terms of depictions that are not overtly offensive, particularly because mascots and logos are inherently caricatured. The Scandinavian in me has reflected (only reflected on it; I certainly am not offended by it other than the history major in me objecting to the historical inaccuracy) that the Vikings didn't wear horns on their heads, that's a visual allusion to the devil, and many Scandinavians at that time were just poor farmers or fishermen who never got more than five miles from their village. But Scandinavians in this country, though they weren't exactly welcomed with open arms at times, didn't face anything remotely similar to what American Indians and African Americans did, so I'm not going to tell those people how they should feel. But we should probably just do away with human/historical mascots and team names if, for instance, no depiction of an Indian would be deemed acceptable.

The argument that sports figures shouldn't speak about politics is silly IMO. They are public figures, and they should be free to use the platform they have earned to speak out if they desire. That is not to say that they should not be held accountable for the views they promote (of late, looking at you, DeSean Jackson....), but they should absolutely be free to share them if they so desire. The trend of some people - particularly on the right - saying that sports figures and entertainers should "stick to sports/music" also smacks of racism. Due to segregation and institutionalized racism, for decades effectively the only prominent national minority figures were sports stars, musicians, and to a lesser extent actors. People have said many things to Donald Trump over the years, but I don't recall anyone telling him to "shut up and stick to business" when he spoke up about politics. For that matter, plenty of politicians are no more intelligent or frankly qualified than sports stars, musicians, or actors.

Finally, as far as the argument that sports should be a place where everyone can set aside their differences and come together, that's never been the reality. Sports have been linked to politics for much of their existence, at least in this country. Jackie Robinson probably wished everyone could put aside their differences and just play baseball. It didn't happen. And black people understandably don't feel that people are setting aside their differences when they see/attend a NASCAR event with dozens (hundreds?) of confederate flags flying. If you're going to be a purist, then you need to just give up on sports altogether. And probably movies, television, the stock market,etc.

magee wrote:You know the term "redskin" came from scalping American Indians/Native Americans/Indigenous Americans, right?

No it didn’t. I’ve read primary sources where Natives refer to themselves as the “red man” versus the “white man.” It’s never been a racist term. Thought-Nazis with their racism boners have no real cause any more, so they’re inventing reasons to make victims out of people.

Snyder caved to the shake-down tactics, and that was the last straw for me. I’m not gonna watch the Washington Gender-Neutrals or whatever the f**k they decide with which to capitulate.

magee wrote:Why do you consider people who say "Black Lives Matter" a bunch of lying f*cks? So people asking for equal civil rights ALMOST did it for you

Wow, that’s some bull s**t. They aren’t asking for equal anything.

They keep repeating the lie that blacks are killed by cops at higher rates. That’s a lie. Take every black arrest and every white arrest and every white shooting / black shooting, and cops kill whites at a slightly higher rate that blacks.

Thought-Nazi f**ks like Demarcus Cousins got the Kings’ announcer of like 40 years fired for saying “All lives matter.” Equality my ass. They’re Marxist instigators, and they’re attacking people who did absolutely nothing wrong. And they don’t self-police; they sit back & laugh while their peeps loot, beat people up, commit arson / vandalism, and they even murdered several people in the last couple of months alone (cops, children,etc.). F**k them and anyone who defends them. Black lives absolutely matter, but that’s not what BLM is about.

BTW, cops killed a white guy in cuffs via suffocation in 2016, and nobody gave a f**k. Tampa, FL. Equal rights, my ass. Cops are doing the best job they’ve ever done at this point in history, and **** are killing them & making sure that police officer is one of the the worst professions to endure in the country.

Again, they should’ve left this out of football. It used to be fun.

CrimsonCrew wrote:Wrestling with whether or how to engage with this. But it's me, so I pretty much have to.

Re: the name Redskins, it is objectively offensive. It is a slur.

No it’s not. Never was. Neither is the word “negro.” They’re archaic and obsolete, not slurs.

It’s not the Washington savages or prairie n-words. It was a term used universally by natives and Europeans alike.

NinerSickness wrote:

magee wrote:Why do you consider people who say "Black Lives Matter" a bunch of lying f*cks? So people asking for equal civil rights ALMOST did it for you

Wow, that’s some bull s**t. They aren’t asking for equal anything.

They keep repeating the lie that blacks are killed by cops at higher rates. That’s a lie. Take every black arrest and every white arrest and every white shooting / black shooting, and cops kill whites at a slightly higher rate that blacks.

Thought-Nazi f**ks like Demarcus Cousins got the Kings’ announcer of like 40 years fired for saying “All lives matter.” Equality my ass. They’re Marxist instigators, and they’re attacking people who did absolutely nothing wrong. And they don’t self-police; they sit back & laugh while their peeps loot, beat people up, commit arson / vandalism, and they even murdered several people in the last couple of months alone (cops, children,etc.). F**k them and anyone who defends them. Black lives absolutely matter, but that’s not what BLM is about.

The cop was killed by boogaloo boys who where attempting to frame protesters. It worked, many fell for it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/17/boogaloo-steven-carrillo/

I get the impression you haven't talked to a single BLM about their perspective, and your entire perception is shaped by right wing media. Sure some BLM are Marxist, some are liberal, libertarian, etc..the support for ending police brutality is wider than some would have you think. I support ending it as well and I'm an independent that rejects ideology.

There where a couple days that turned to riots in the beginning, and several weeks that followed that have mostly been peaceful, but some hyper focus on the first couple days while acting as if the rest doesn't exist, because it doesn't fit their narrative. Why is 2 days more representative of the movement than the following 2 months? I've repeatedly seen cops brutalize peaceful protesters. One guy was playing violin for a memorial and cops rolled through with riot gear and started attacking people. Cops tore of the prosthetic legs of a protester in a wheelchair and left him laying in the street. I could flood this thread with videos of cops escalating violence if you'd like.

There are also COINTELPRO type **** going on with undercover provocateurs who are agitating the crowd, breaking windows etc... to discredit the movement, it happens all the time. I saw several videos of people breaking windows and black protesters stopped them. One was a guy breaking windows at autozone and protestors confronted him, he was supposedly an undercover. I also saw a white boy breaking windows with a skate board and BLM protesters stopped him and made him leave. There were pallets of bricks that where delivered to protest sites with a police escort, BLM stood guard near the bricks telling people not to touch them because they are a trap.

This issue isn't as clear cut and one sided as you're making it out to be.

NinerSickness wrote:

CrimsonCrew wrote:Wrestling with whether or how to engage with this. But it's me, so I pretty much have to.

Re: the name Redskins, it is objectively offensive. It is a slur.

No it’s not. Never was. Neither is the word “negro.” They’re archaic and obsolete, not slurs.

It’s not the Washington savages or prairie n-words. It was a term used universally by natives and Europeans alike.

You missed my point. A word can have innocuous origins but grow to be offensive. The n-word, widely considered one of if not the most offensive word in the English language, derived from the word "negro," which simply meant black. It wasn't considered offensive at one time, but it certainly is today. The origins are irrelevant at this point. The word has acquired a significance beyond its origin. The same is true of redskin. Even assuming that redskin is a word that native peoples used to describe themselves back in the 18th or 19th century (and that relies primarily on Americans and Europeans interpreting native words rather than adopting a term those people were using for them), that doesn't mean the term is not offensive now. Because of its antagonistic use in the late 1800s and throughout the 1900s, it has taken on an offensive meaning.

I was just struck by something here. Sick, it seems like you object to the phrase "black lives matter" not because of the innocuous and entirely unobjectionable meaning of those words, but because of the meaning that has been instilled upon those words by the social context in which they are used. Interesting.

Listen to the crowd cheer when he talks about civil war. I never see right wingers call out this type of violent rhetoric, people are cheering to see the country eat itself. The people calling for civil war think of themselves as "patriots", when they would tear us apart while telling themselves they are the ones saving this country.

BLM wants cops to stop killing them, these people want civil war with half the country. Which is more damaging to America?

NinerSickness wrote:

magee wrote:Why do you consider people who say "Black Lives Matter" a bunch of lying f*cks? So people asking for equal civil rights ALMOST did it for you

Wow, that’s some bull s**t. They aren’t asking for equal anything.

They keep repeating the lie that blacks are killed by cops at higher rates. That’s a lie. Take every black arrest and every white arrest and every white shooting / black shooting, and cops kill whites at a slightly higher rate that blacks.

Thought-Nazi f**ks like Demarcus Cousins got the Kings’ announcer of like 40 years fired for saying “All lives matter.” Equality my ass. They’re Marxist instigators, and they’re attacking people who did absolutely nothing wrong. And they don’t self-police; they sit back & laugh while their peeps loot, beat people up, commit arson / vandalism, and they even murdered several people in the last couple of months alone (cops, children,etc.). F**k them and anyone who defends them. Black lives absolutely matter, but that’s not what BLM is about.

Historically, at least based on the numbers I can find, about 30% of deaths at the hands of police are suffered by black people. Obviously that is disproportionately high. I don't know what the numbers are per contact or arrest, but minorities throughout the country are contacted by the police at MUCH higher rates than white people. That means, generally speaking, when police make contact with white people, they have a legitimate reason to do so. Look at stop-and-frisk. Some 90% of those stops were of minorities. Most did not end in arrests, but those that did were likely by and large for minor crimes like drug possession. The odds of physical violence in these stops was relatively low. That would account for a statistically significant proportion of arrests, versus a hot pursuit of a robbery suspect, which is much more likely to result in violence.

My view is that I'm not at all comfortable with the actions of police in many of these cases. I say that as someone who works with police daily, and has watched countless hours of body cam video, dash cam, aerial video, etc. Policing can be extremely dangerous, but many cops use force too willingly, and while investigating low-level crimes that don't require violence. I think there is a better way. And claiming that systemic racism a) doesn't exist, and b) doesn't affect policing, is willfully ignorant at best.

NinerSickness wrote:BTW, cops killed a white guy in cuffs via suffocation in 2016, and nobody gave a f**k. Tampa, FL. Equal rights, my ass. Cops are doing the best job they’ve ever done at this point in history, and **** are killing them & making sure that police officer is one of the the worst professions to endure in the country.

Again, they should’ve left this out of football. It used to be fun.

I'm sure lots of people gave a f**k.

You're right that violence toward black people has made headlines more than violence toward whites, even though violence toward whites makes up a plurality if not a slight majority of police violence. And maybe that isn't fair. I don't presume to know. I do know that when I watched the George Floyd video, I thought to myself that something is broken if that can happen, and it needs to be fixed. I'd question the belief system of anyone who didn't feel that way on some level.

As far as cops doing the best job they've ever done, I don't know how you could possibly measure that objectively. Crime is down generally, but it would be hard to show correlation rather than causation. It seems to me that cops are willing to use force - and extreme force - a lot more quickly than they should be. And IMO, the issue goes much deeper than the "few bad apples" argument. Chauvin appears to have been a bad apple - though even there, who really knows? But the three guys who stood by or helped him as he killed Floyd? I have no reason to believe that they are guys who set out to hurt of kill black people. But they didn't think anything of it when it happened - or at least didn't feel they could speak out against it. I think the bigger problem are those cops, who likely make up a majority of forces throughout the country. Guys who are well-meaning, got into the career to serve the community and protect others, but were exposed to a way that things "should" be done and adopted it.

Ultimately, I don't think many people want to completely eliminate the police. But take a given department apart and rebuild it - with some of the **** who you need to do the truly dangerous and necessary work of protecting society, and also a much stronger emphasis on community policing, mental health services, drug treatment services, etc. - and that holds some real appeal for me.

Bald Bull wrote:

NinerSickness wrote:

magee wrote:Why do you consider people who say "Black Lives Matter" a bunch of lying f*cks? So people asking for equal civil rights ALMOST did it for you

Wow, that’s some bull s**t. They aren’t asking for equal anything.

They keep repeating the lie that blacks are killed by cops at higher rates. That’s a lie. Take every black arrest and every white arrest and every white shooting / black shooting, and cops kill whites at a slightly higher rate that blacks.

Thought-Nazi f**ks like Demarcus Cousins got the Kings’ announcer of like 40 years fired for saying “All lives matter.” Equality my ass. They’re Marxist instigators, and they’re attacking people who did absolutely nothing wrong. And they don’t self-police; they sit back & laugh while their peeps loot, beat people up, commit arson / vandalism, and they even murdered several people in the last couple of months alone (cops, children,etc.). F**k them and anyone who defends them. Black lives absolutely matter, but that’s not what BLM is about.

The cop was killed by boogaloo boys who where attempting to frame protesters. It worked, many fell for it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/17/boogaloo-steven-carrillo/

I get the impression you haven't talked to a single BLM about their perspective, and your entire perception is shaped by right wing media. Sure some BLM are Marxist, some are liberal, libertarian, etc..the support for ending police brutality is wider than some would have you think. I support ending it as well and I'm an independent that rejects ideology.

There where a couple days that turned to riots in the beginning, and several weeks that followed that have mostly been peaceful, but some hyper focus on the first couple days while acting as if the rest doesn't exist, because it doesn't fit their narrative. Why is 2 days more representative of the movement than the following 2 months? I've repeatedly seen cops brutalize peaceful protesters. One guy was playing violin for a memorial and cops rolled through with riot gear and started attacking people. Cops tore of the prosthetic legs of a protester in a wheelchair and left him laying in the street. I could flood this thread with videos of cops escalating violence if you'd like.

There are also COINTELPRO type **** going on with undercover provocateurs who are agitating the crowd, breaking windows etc... to discredit the movement, it happens all the time. I saw several videos of people breaking windows and black protesters stopped them. One was a guy breaking windows at autozone and protestors confronted him, he was supposedly an undercover. I also saw a white boy breaking windows with a skate board and BLM protesters stopped him and made him leave. There were pallets of bricks that where delivered to protest sites with a police escort, BLM stood guard near the bricks telling people not to touch them because they are a trap.

This issue isn't as clear cut and one sided as you're making it out to be.

The boogaloo movement is pretty troubling. Many of them are military trained. They're heavily armed, seemingly well organized, and have shown a willingness to kill "authority figures" as part of an attempt to trigger a second civil war. Mentioned them to my my conservative father, who has taken to wearing a lot of Hawaiian shirts, and he gave me a completely blank stare. I would bet 80% of Fox News viewers (conservatively; no pun intended) think that the BLM movement was responsible for the law enforcement deaths in California that were actually caused by boogaloos.

But here I am talking politics and making football less fun.

Sick you talked about BLM laughing as people looted, How about the cops who returned to the scene where Elijah McClain was murdered to pose for pictures choking each other? Returning to the murder scene to pose for pictures, feels like something a serial killer would do. It's twisted.

Elijah McClain's story honestly made me cry, his last words hit me deep. He seemed like a good kid by all accounts. They laughed about his death, with no remorse.

This isn't one side good, the other side bad. There is plenty of bad to go around, stop buying into the attempts to divide us.

Bald Bull wrote:

NinerSickness wrote:

magee wrote:Why do you consider people who say "Black Lives Matter" a bunch of lying f*cks? So people asking for equal civil rights ALMOST did it for you

Wow, that’s some bull s**t. They aren’t asking for equal anything.

They keep repeating the lie that blacks are killed by cops at higher rates. That’s a lie. Take every black arrest and every white arrest and every white shooting / black shooting, and cops kill whites at a slightly higher rate that blacks.

Thought-Nazi f**ks like Demarcus Cousins got the Kings’ announcer of like 40 years fired for saying “All lives matter.” Equality my ass. They’re Marxist instigators, and they’re attacking people who did absolutely nothing wrong. And they don’t self-police; they sit back & laugh while their peeps loot, beat people up, commit arson / vandalism, and they even murdered several people in the last couple of months alone (cops, children,etc.). F**k them and anyone who defends them. Black lives absolutely matter, but that’s not what BLM is about.

The cop was killed by boogaloo boys who where attempting to frame protesters. It worked, many fell for it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/17/boogaloo-steven-carrillo/

I get the impression you haven't talked to a single BLM about their perspective, and your entire perception is shaped by right wing media. Sure some BLM are Marxist, some are liberal, libertarian, etc..the support for ending police brutality is wider than some would have you think. I support ending it as well and I'm an independent that rejects ideology.

There where a couple days that turned to riots in the beginning, and several weeks that followed that have mostly been peaceful, but some hyper focus on the first couple days while acting as if the rest doesn't exist, because it doesn't fit their narrative. Why is 2 days more representative of the movement than the following 2 months? I've repeatedly seen cops brutalize peaceful protesters. One guy was playing violin for a memorial and cops rolled through with riot gear and started attacking people. Cops tore of the prosthetic legs of a protester in a wheelchair and left him laying in the street. I could flood this thread with videos of cops escalating violence if you'd like.

There are also COINTELPRO type **** going on with undercover provocateurs who are agitating the crowd, breaking windows etc... to discredit the movement, it happens all the time. I saw several videos of people breaking windows and black protesters stopped them. One was a guy breaking windows at autozone and protestors confronted him, he was supposedly an undercover. I also saw a white boy breaking windows with a skate board and BLM protesters stopped him and made him leave. There were pallets of bricks that where delivered to protest sites with a police escort, BLM stood guard near the bricks telling people not to touch them because they are a trap.

This issue isn't as clear cut and one sided as you're making it out to be.

I’m 100% on board for what you’re describing, but the overall movement brings violence & destruction with it because they don’t police themselves. And they lie about the frequency of black deaths by cops VS white deaths by cops. That’s why I have no patience for that movement, and the 49ers flying their flag basically says they’re with the movement (not the ideals behind the movement but the results of it on the ground).

CrimsonCrew wrote:A word can have innocuous origins but grow to be offensive. The n-word, widely considered one of if not the most offensive word in the English language, derived from the word "negro," which simply meant black. It wasn't considered offensive at one time, but it certainly is today.

That’s also not true. N***** has ALWAYS been a derogatory term. Negro was never derogatory.

And people who think they can redefine language to fit their unquenchable desire for more victim status can go f**k themselves. Saying the origins of a term are irrelevant essentially says everyone has to stop what they’re doing and pander if a few people bitch about it.

And what do you get when that happens? People like Grant Napier getting fired from the Kings after 40 years for saying something completely true and innocuous (all lives matter). F**k Demarcus Dumbass Cousins, f**k lying BLM and f**k the thought Nazis.